The Hidden Politics of Economic Decline

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posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that the United States is in economic decline. the Federal bureaucracy is bloated and the Federal deficit has grown past nine trillion dollars. Our currency is now just as weak as our government. In spite of its obvious flaws, our leaders forced NAFTA on us, and our prosperity has declined since the mid 90's. Now, we face the possibility of economic depression and national collapse.

It's never been hard to see this coming. Anyone who balances their own checkbook has enough fiscal savvy to see this downward trend for what it is. I wrote about this on ATS in February of 2006. Here we are in February of 2008, and most of the predictions made by the ATS membership have...come true.

It is true that all nations rise and fall, but it's also true that all nations experience high and low points in their history. We have experienced eras of great prosperity in America. Now, it seems that we're in for another period of depression. There is just one thing that makes this economic downturn "more different" than anything we've ever experienced.

Federal power is at an all time high. Never before in the history of our nation has the D.C. bureaucracy held so much power to intrude in to our lives. Presidential demands for power that we've now seen a sitting leader insist that he's got the right to spy on us for our own good.

History tells us that too much centralized power leads to tyranny. Dictators often come to power when they declare their love of the nation, and the desire to protect it by any means necessary. When they exploit our fears, we become vulnerable to their suggestions that we'll be safe...if we make a few small adjustments...to our civil liberties.

Economic downturns come and go. That's the 'cycle' of money they teach you about in school. When government gain "executive" power, they never give it up. This is the real problem we face. It's the most genuine and prove-able conspiracies I know of.

In the weeks to come, I'd like to explain my reasoning to you in the context of current events as they happen. Our leaders are being tempted to reach out and take power that is not meant for them. Some will really believe that it's for our own good. Others will know better as they struggle for total power over our national future.

For some of these people, it really would be...more to their liking...to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. Ambitious men and women have always found it to be easier to stay in power when a nation is weak. It's harder for them to get their way when the voters are prosperous.

There's a Podcast that I've just added to go along with this topic.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by Justin Oldham]




posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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I also wonder if the folks at the top have been compromised, and they actually want to destroy the US. They could be working for the Saudi's, for example. Or some other foreign entity. They could even be working for corporations who are better served by a weaker US (destroy the gov't, destroy those pesky corporate taxes and regulations that protect the public).

I think the US has a big bulls eye painted on it right now, and it's the guys on the inside who are firing the guns.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
I also wonder if the folks at the top have been compromised, and they actually want to destroy the US. They could be working for the Saudi's, for example. Or some other foreign entity.


Corporatism has played its role in our decline. There's no denying that. Greed and self interest are, by themselves, enough to bring down a nation if enough people get addicted to them.

I just knocked out a Podcast to go along with this discussion. Because we are talking about events that won't transpire until the next decade, its important to panicky speculation.

Once we understand this for what it is, we can talk about wit our friends and family in such a way that we'll make more friends than enemies.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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I have a question and seeing as how you've obviously put more thought into it and know more about it all than I ever will here's as good a place as any.

For those in power, how can they be happy with how their names will go down in history. Are they truly only concerned with the here and now and could care less about a legacy? There's already need for change but with each passing day I feel we're getting closer and closer to some kind of revolution in the US.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by laughable3
For those in power, how can they be happy with how their names will go down in history. Are they truly only concerned with the here and now and could care less about a legacy? There's already need for change but with each passing day I feel we're getting closer and closer to some kind of revolution in the US.


That's a very good question.


Throughout history, we have seen that the political and social elites who 'run' a country do not always care about its health or the well-being of its citizens. This can happen for two reasons.

Power can be its own justification. In the same way that addicts will do anyting for another fix, so too will politicians do almost anything to stay in power. Money canalso be a pwoerful drug.

Our challenge, as citizens, is to remind our leaders that they are obligated to us. It's like I say in my signature at the bottom of each post. They serve us or we serve them.

Most of the discussion threads in this Conspiracy Master forum are dedicated to answering your question in some way. ATS members will tell you that there's a lot of different ways to look at this problem.

The political trend, as I have documented it, strongly suggests that we are slowly headed towards a period of severe economic hardship that could result in that revolt you mentioned. Our politicians have acquired too much influence. The simple fact is that our government officers are not known for giving back power, once they have it.

As our leaders exploit terrorism, we become much more willing to believe the worst about them. That leads to radicalization, which will only get worse as our economy fails. If we're not careful, the stage could one day be set for revolt.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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ATS Member Bigbert81 has brought an interesting news item to everyone's attention. Please have a look at their discussion thread, and have your say.

It's being reported that the Bush administration has shut down another web site that provide key economic figures to the private sector.

The source is Think Progress dot-org


This site is maintained by the Economics and Statistics Administration and combines data collected by the Bureau of Economic Analysis, like GDP and net imports and exports, and the Census Bureau, like retail sales and durable goods shipments. The site simply links to the relevant department’s Web site. This might not seem like a big deal, but doing it yourself–say, trying to find retail sales data on the Census Bureau’s site–is such an exercise in futility that it will convince you why this portal is necessary.


According to the author of this article, the Bush administration will shut off this web site on March 1st, in an effort to save money.

If you were looking for real proof that we are in trouble, this would be it.


[edit on 14-2-2008 by Justin Oldham]



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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Justin no only the elites run our nation but also we have to remember that power corrupt and more power is needed like you said.

But the present administration led by the Bush clan wants more than just power, they have become a corporate run government and they have to hold to that power by any means necessary and that is why the pursue of laws and regulations in the name of for the good of the people rhetoric and propaganda is used, the only good that is been obtained here is for the same corporate elite that rules the nation.

But what I don't get is that this people, corporations or entities actually believe that they can control the population in a nation by laws, rules and legislation.

Don't they learn from past history? don't they get it that is so much populations can take until they fight back the power? is written all over history for thousands of years.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Don't they learn from past history? don't they get it that is so much populations can take until they fight back the power? is written all over history for thousands of years.


Well, Marg. Every now and then, they forget the lesson you just mentioned. That's why we have to remind them. That's why we need to be active on boards like ATS.

I don't want to duplicate anyone else's work, so I'd like to refer you to a new topic started by ATS Member DimensionalDetective. Please go to their thread and have your say.

DD has brought a Reuters news item to everyone's attention that you should see and comment on.


Fear that a hobbled banking sector may set off another Great Depression could force the U.S. government and Federal Reserve to take the unprecedented step of buying a broad range of assets, including stocks, according to one of the most bearish market analysts.


I don't care where you live, any government would have to be desperate to even consider propping up its domestic economy with taxpayer dollars. I can't help but wonder which of our wealthiest families would profit from this. If you're looking for a real conspiracy, this would be it.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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I already been on that thread Justin DD is an outstanding thread started.


I am going to tell you who is going to benefit from what our government led by the Bush clan is trying to do, all the crooks that make the infamous Carlyle group and the Saudis royals that are all up their necks involved, if you have been following the economic downfall and some threads I have started America has been sold to the same terrorist countries that brought us 9/11 and praised the Al-qaida attacks.

Our own elite ruled government is selling the American nation.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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I'm glad you've already been over there. I didn't want to duplicate his work, so I merely sited it here. I see that this thread has picked up a few more flags. That's good, too.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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nice thread topic

the quesion i have is how dire are the conversations behind closed doors between the federal reserve and the treasury secretary as well as others.

someone asked if these corporation or politicians might want to see the U.S decline, corporations no, they would want us spending so they could suck up more money, the Politicians are a bit more difficult to read, i for one think that they understood the financial system (with america at it's head) post WWII would not last forever, and that when it ran it's course ( the high standard of living that the "average" american enjoyed would be over) and as this played out over the decades, i believe the big wigs understood they would milk the american consumer engine for all it was worth, and when toward the end , they got desperate and decided to add another 5 years to the current global economic system that supports the american consumer (China and Japan surpressing their currency's to keep american prices for their goods lower, and their own export demand high) by deliberately blowing a housing bubble, made possible by lenders making loans to people they know did not have the means to pay them back, but in the process inflated american's sense of wealth and ability to take out loans, and spend spend spend.

I think the Elite knew and planned long ago that the time would come when the post WWII financial system (with american consumers on top) sustainted by adding debt would eventually slow down and then implode, and they when this process unwound had a unique opportunity to re-organize society in a way that they saw fit such as a vison where they had absolute power, wether this was a nessesity given the amount of chaos which would ultimately befall a brake down when the current economic order collapsed, or wether this was designed and exasperated purposefully to accelerate the process ( i haven't become sure) perhaps the latter was a consequence of their greed instead of malicious intent and surely everyone with influence had their own thought process and intentions, but i have reasons to think otherwise, either way , they have had a "rough outline" for a while


We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promise of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march toward a world government. The super-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."


the infrastructure necessary for the above state has been put into place for the last hundred years (including the founding of the Federal reserve)
and recently the infrastructure for a police state (which may be necessary to police the coming social unrest) has been slowly but surely made possible through changes in laws by Bush administration under the guise that the "real reason is terrorism" when even with legitimate terrorism , the odds of death are less then choking on a peanut. The reason for the changes in laws is clear to me, and must be given "lip service to terrorists" because no one wants to panic the public and send the economic house of cards tumbling down faster by letting them in on the truth of how fragile and near the end of the line the economic system really is.

the expansion of the federal reserve to america carried with it the promise to the international bankers , that america dreams would be compromised by those that steered it's economic policy, a relatively stable system under a federal reserve has functioned in england for century's but should the fed have been implemented by international bankers with a will and vision of british imperialism than the system could also be used to bring america down and make sure that should a world totalarian system set up shop, the power center could be across the atlantic (while allowing multi national fractions to still operate out of america with much power i.e agricultural industry,etc)


[edit on 16-2-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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Hello cp, haven't seen you in a while.

I think there could be something to what you say. I find it hard to beleivethat the current state of affair could be reached without somebody knowing that that they were making it happen. I'm not certain that premeditated collapse is the intended goal, but I do see your point regarding the trans-national corporations.

Having said that, I would point out htat short-sighted greed has played a large role in teh rise nad fall of nations for more than two thousand years. I'll go back to the origninal premise I put forward at the start. I think our leaders see an opportunity for more power, and they're going to take it...even if...it means an economic crash.

I would like to hear more opinions.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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This conversation has gone high tech. For those who don't know, ATS Member Freedom ERP has made a podcast in which he talks about the politics of economic decline. I have responded to his questions in a podcast of my own.



[edit on 18-2-2008 by Justin Oldham]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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I just found out the other day how deceptive our government reports have become. I believe when consumer spending reports come out now, food and energy prices are included at current prices. With inflation (which doesn't include food and energy in the inflation report), total consumer spending has increased. However if you only look at consumer spending on non essential items and factor in inflation, consumer spending has been negative for the last 13 months here in the US I believe. A normal economy doesn't warrant 1.25 percentage points to be cut in a 2 week period either in my opinion. However this just proves to me this is not a normal economic downturn.
Information obtained from
paper-money.blogspot.com...


We're on the brink of a potential major disaster. From appearances it would seem the Fed is trying to keep things going but I did wonder why I read a year or two ago about the vice president putting a lot of his money into Euros as if he knew the dollar was going to plummet in value. Maybe things will improve. In a best case scenario I expect the stock market to drop more and then the Fed will be forced to raise rates up next year to try to slow down run away inflation.

For a worst case scenario, I'll refer to a great post I found here called The 12 Steps to Financial Disaster

www.investorsinsight.com...

If house prices across the US plummet 20 to 30 percent after a year or two, prime loans will be affected as well and the cycle will go on with more banks having bad loans etc. etc. I hope house prices do not drop that much across the whole nation but I'm really not sure how bad things will get.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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Hello orionthehunter:

None of us ar realy sure how bad things really are. We're not able to fairly judge how bad any of this is going to get. The Bush administration has stopped reporting a lot of important economic stats. They wwyouldn't do that unless the real news was ba-a-a-a-ad.

That's why we need to be talkingabou this now, before the spit hits the fan.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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I agree it looks like things are getting worse here. Widespread flu and sickness are going to keep people home. I heard most states here in the US are suffering widespread outbreaks. I'm recovering from something and stayed home last weekend and probably for the forseeable future. I want to avoid other sick people and I will end up saving gas and money by cutting back a lot of spending. Maybe this is temporary. However the value of people homes are declining across the US and I read there is a correlation between how much the US consumer spends in relation to perceived value of their home. I hope it doesn't get much worse though.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Did anyone here any rumors or reports that Japanese banks may be holding the bulk of the bad sub prime loans? I thought I read somewhere that they will be reporting in March and someone claimed the numbers won't be good.



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
Did anyone here any rumors or reports that Japanese banks may be holding the bulk of the bad sub prime loans? I thought I read somewhere that they will be reporting in March and someone claimed the numbers won't be good.


That's news to me. I have heard that Chinese banks are vulnerable to subprime exposure.



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Hey Justin. There are so many hidden politics in this great decline. I found a great article reciting the 12 steps to economic collapse. I, of course, believe that this is what the elite's exact agenda is to evoke their agenda on the world. I also started an additional thread about the actuality of subprime loans. I believe that the two threads are very interrelated. Here are links to the two threads. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 23 2008 @ 04:47 AM
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Hello Palehorse23, I'm glad to see that you're interested in this issue. It does seem reasonable to suggest that our political and social elites know that they are wrecking our economy. You can't really do the things they've done and NOT know that. I can only conclude that they can't resist the temptation to grab more power.

As you can see, we've got ten flags on this thread now, and its been viewed more than a thousand times. That tells me that a lot of people like you think this is important.

I don't claim to have the answers, but I do know that more of us need to be aware of this covert agenda.





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