Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

reply to post by artistoli


You've got it all wrong, it's not Islam itself, its the groups, leaders, political people behind these stuff that you should watch for, not the actual muslims.
That's where people get blind, they forget about the politicans, and simply blame the religion. I mean look around you, it's all about politics, do you see much good politics in this world? religion or not?
A politican know that religion can help them acomplish things and get away with it.

[edit on 7-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Good point.
It seems to me that the old trick 'Divide and rule' is quite a predominant factor in this kind of stuff, but it's easy to forget in the heat of things.

artistoli

Excellent post, I'm glad to see there are others willing to say the things that need to be said. No, it is not all Muslims that are bad, just as not all the things that U.S. corporations do are bad, but the radical elements that hide within Islam are very bad, and very dangerous. The moderate elements which continue to force the religion on each succeeding generation, will also hide the radical elements in their midst until they are forced to make a choice. It is an us verses them situation, and the sooner everyone realizes this, the higher the chances that Western civilization will survive. This is a contest for survival, and the way that the west is conducting itself, it will not win.

Ah marg

You have done a very poor job of trying to put me in a box. My opinion on 9-11 falls into the category of not believing the official story. We are in Iraq for the oil, and the Bush family is much closer to the Saudi's then you might be willing to admit. You need to re-read my post, because you missed all the details. I really don't care about the Middle East, in a few decades their oil reserves will essentially be gone, and vast changes will be underway in the region. What is going on in Europe and Africa is of far more immediate concern. The people of Europe need to act soon to start neutralizing the radical elements of Islam, or it will be too late for a reasonable solution.

Phoenix

Besides the vast amount of proof I have already generally pointed out that clearly shows Muslim aggression, besides what is going on in France, you might also want to look into the problems the Danish are experiencing in Denmark. There have also been incidents in Canada as well.

I live in one of the most multicultural cities in the world, and know many people from the Middle East, and all around the world. History is my current passion, along with keeping track of events going on around the world. Maybe you might try challenging some specifics of my argument, deny Muslim aggression in every corner of the world where they exist in numbers large enough to create problems.

Sorry, but this is not about politics, this is about the inherent beliefs of Islam verses the inherent beliefs of the West.

Islam is about control, control of the family first, and then the society. Islam has no desire to embrace tolerance. Islam is more of a cult than a religion. Either the West engages in a breeding competition against Islam, which would be very bad for our planet, or the West takes the steps necessary to keep Islam from developing the majority population.

The solution is simple, Muslims who want to immigrate to the Western world must agree to send their children to learn western culture and beliefs, and allow their children to choose what religion they will believe in, if any at all.

reply to post by poet1b


With a little word substitution your post sounds very much like the policy here in the US that caused the "missing generation" among our Indian (Native American) tribes. To some extent many feel that it is for the best.

To remove cultural identity from a group of people is an amazing bit of ego stroking to the extreme. From the other side of the coin how does that differ from them impossing absolute beliefs on us? Oh I see where it is now, an "us and them" arguement. Which in my opinion seems equally wrong however it becomes sliced.

Please do not view this as a direct attack as it is not my intention. It is just those words felt very familar in an unpleasently spooky way. Just throwing out a differing opinion for consideration.

When I chose to live in Africa, I brought some of my Canadian sensibilities with me, but, I adhered to the laws of the country I lived in. When I was in Europe, it was the same and I always tried to learn the languages. In Africa, I didn't change my religion and start hiring Sangomas, of course I consider religion to be personal, a private thing that can be appreciated, certainly not something to be used as a bat, with which to beat people over the head. I don't believe that whatever Cosmic Muffin exists "out there" intended us to force feed our views to a resistive population. Which reminds me of the Agnostics Prayer;

"Dear God, if there is a God
Save my Soul, if I have a Soul"

If the muslims moved to the UK, France, Canada, whatever country for that matter of their own accord, then they must integrate and assimilate, anything else simply denigrates the social structure of the host country. If they can't integrate or refuse to, send them back. Integration adds to a country's social pool, everything else just produces a series of warring "tribes." They should remember that taking up a residence, a job and being accepted in a new country is a privilege, not a right.

Personally, I am not a racist, but I abhor multiculturalism and its political connotations, meaning all this politically correct garbage. If you're an American, you're an American, not an Afro-American or Indo-American or any other hyphenated flavour of the day American. We have different countries for that. If I want to see Egypt, India, Pakistan, China or anywhere else, I'll go and live like the people there, to blend with their culture and hopefully add to it. I certainly won't force my culture on them, I'm not so presumptuous or egotistical to think they would want it. And I would never presume to change the legal system for lil' 'ole me or my thousands of similar migratory cohorts.

I live in Canada now (a large colony, it's not a country), if it were 50 years ago and we were a soup we'd be Beef and Barley. Of course, I've been talking to the government this week extensively and if I had to pick a soup of what we are now, I would have to say vegetable. We may have "gained" something with this diversity crap (not sure what), but we've lost a lot as well and the education system has been deliberately “dumbed down” to accommodate the "new average" capability. You need a translator just to hear something in English from the government.

And if we are going to be fair, if they can carry a ceremonial sword because of their religion, well, my religion says I can carry an XIX and a Barrett 50 cal, so let's get equal ;-)

My two cents....

Cheers

[edit on 7-2-2008 by bobs_uruncle]

Only question is if you have the "Sharia Law" will that include allowing raping and murder in the family name... As well as the other wacky rules

It probably does go on now but to actually allow openly a system to pushs back human rights is beyond me.

If the want to live under that system then I'm sure they can immigrate to a country that follows that type of law.

They are free to choose where they live but not dictate to their neighbours how they should live

Hi all. I am convinced that this whole thing with the muslims is just a blind.Designed to get people to take there eye off the ball.Power is the name of the game.Does any body think that the religous leaders of the muslims really have their best interests at heart, if so,may i suggest that you take a long hard look at what they are doing and for that matter,what they are not doing. Do you see them putting their lives on the line anywhere that they are causing conflict.Do you see them on the front line with their troops.They hide behind fanatics and send them out to blow them selfes up and take as many with them as they can.Sharia law in the u.k is another power play, this time by a christian.He wants to stop the muslims from encroching into his area of power,the houses of parliament.The christian church has enjoyed a large degree of power in our politics and by making the statement that he has i think that he hopes to halt the muslim laws before they get in to deep.He is no fool,he is getting what he wanted.All any so called religious leaders ever want is the power we give them.We give it to them by turning on each other,when in fact all the majority of people want is to be left in peace to enjoy life as much as is possible anyway.The whole thing of muslim against christian and vice versa is a ploy by those who use it to enhance their power in some way and i for one do not wish to give them that power.I can not make people see that they are being used by both sides,i can only hope that they stop long enough to take another look and perhaps see things differently.Don`t intend this to sound like a lecture,it`s just how i see it.

It is really quite simple. There can be only one standard of Law to be applied to the land if a country is to survive as an entity, and all immigrants must be required to adhere to that law, and integrate into that society. Immigrants are exactly what that term implies........outsiders who make a decision to come to a foreign country to better their situations. They are obligated to conform to their adopted society's norms. If they are not willing to do so they should leave or not come in the first place. The Archbishop's remarks truly make me doubt his rationality, if not his very sanity.

Lots of opinions! Some heated, others more measured. keep it civil folks

Heres my personal opinion on it - the man is nuts. He's in a position of "notability" and hes come out with a massive clanger thats likely to cost him his position.

Its never going to happen and if you want a really good indication of what the British Public think you should look at the "Have your Say" page on the BBC website here BBC - Have your say.

You'll find a solid wall of condemnation, page after page of it and anyone who regularly reads the comments will realise that such a response is totally unprecedented.

reply to post by RR98


I see you're from Connecticut. How well are you adapting to Mohegan culture and social norms?
You're not? Okay. So how well are you adapting to Dutch culture and social norms?
Oh, again with the fact you're not. Well you must have acclimated to hardcore Puritan culture and norms... no?

This bishop or whatever really chaps my hide. What an idiot. Sharia law in UK? Is he insane?

I'm sorry - you move to a foreign country - you follow it's laws. You don't - busted!

I wouldn't move to a country with Sharia and act out against it - i'd speak out against it - but that'd be illegal i guess - so i guess i just wouldn't go there.

this guy's quote about it being 'unavoidable' makes me wonder if it isn't just him hoping that it would give him the greenlight to take his own religon to the extreme.

Europe is filling with people from vastly different cultures right now and things will be fine. Social cohesion is a valid concern but it cannot supplant the right to freedom, human values and rights.

also - these little smiley face icons are rad - they deserve their own video game.

reply to post by damagemouse


Honestly? To me the statement from the archbishop just looks like he's trying to start a mess. We see it here all the time in the United States with our talking heads trying to tell us that this minority or the other is "taking over" and it's "just a matter of time" before their "swarms and anchor babies" totally subsume our "way of life."

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


That might happen in the US, but here, comments like you describe are reserved for right wing groups. For the AoC to come out and say this is unprecedented and absurd. He won't last 12 months in his position if he doesn't do some damage control now.

These Sharia Law threads are so inflammatory. If people had actually read the article they would have realised that the Archbishop was VERY specific in terms of when Sharia could be applied, this was in terms of marriage and financial disputes between two Muslims. There was no mention of beheadings or amputations.

In the old Muslim empires such practices were greatly frowned upon and is only in the past 100 or so years that such punishments have been used. Previously bereaved families would be given the choice of whether the guilty person should be executed or to take blood money, with most choosing the latter. Further more, thieves were given the chance to explain why they had stolen, eg to support a family. If this were found to be true then the state was held accountable to find this person employment so that they would not do it again. Nigel Bosworth's account of the Ottoman empire could only find 23 accounts of amputation as punishment for theft over 400+ years of Ottoman rule.

Perhaps people could 1) read the article with a bit more care and attention, 2) not freak out and be a bit less emotional and 3) read abit more into what they are talking about as the extreme form of Islam that pervades our television sets is bastardisation of the majority view, and at odds with Islam when it was at its Zenith.

A final point is that the position of Archbishop of Canterbury is that of spiritual representative of ALL faiths in the UK, not just C of E, though admittedly few other religions will recognise this. He is man of wisdom and experience, perhaps we should at least read what he has to say more carefully.

reply to post by tarichar


It's all very well that you take the stance of "it's only for this and that....", but when you actually look at the public face of Islam in the UK, the Muslim Council of Britain and what they say behind closed doors, it's two different stories:

Let's see what Dr Hasan, who is a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain on issues of sharia law, says shall we?

"Even though cutting off the hands and feet, or flogging the drunkard and fornicator, seem to be very abhorrent, once they are implemented, they become a deterrent for the whole society.
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"This is why in Saudi Arabia, for example, where these measures are implemented, the crime rate is very, very, low," he told The Sunday Telegraph.

In a documentary to be screened on Channel 4 next month, entitled Divorce: Sharia Style, Dr Hasan goes further, advocating a sharia system for Britain.

"If sharia law is implemented, then you can turn this country into a haven of peace because once a thief's hand is cut off nobody is going to steal," he says.

"Once, just only once, if an adulterer is stoned nobody is going to commit this crime at all.

Source - Telegraph

He goes further in the dispatches programme because he believes he is off record, so openly supports the spread of Islam, the conversion of "infidels" and the replacement of English Common Law with Sharia Law.

That's not as innocent as they like to appear in public, is it?

[edit on 8/2/08 by stumason]

reply to post by stumason


Your quoting a guy who supports the Saudi Arabian form of Wahhabi (Salafi) extremism, that view anyone, including other Muslims, that does not follow exactly their form of Islam an infidel. In your own source he is accused of "propagating extremist literature". Hardly an example of main stream moderate Islam.

As I mentioned, he was very specific in where he believed it could be suitable. Not "this and that".

For someone who is interested in the destruction of ignorance you seem very keen to see the continuation of the branding of Islam by a minority of extremists.

reply to post by tarichar


Did you bother to actually read it, or did you just skim?

He is on the Muslim Council of Britain as spokesman for Sharia Law.

The MCoB is THE leading Muslim association in the UK and is often quoted as being "moderate" in Public, when their website and spokespeople, when they think they are off record, are anything but.

This is the point I was making. Many that like to be seen as moderate and only wanting "little" things are actually planning to take what they want piece by piece.

They just use our system against us in order to get what they want, despite being a tiny minority and our politicians allow them for fear of the MCoB singing about how racist and discriminatory the Government is, making them look bad in front of voters.

For someone who is interested in the destruction of ignorance you seem very keen to see the continuation of the branding of Islam by a minority of extremists.

Not really. I am all for freedom of religion and letting people live their lives. I don't mind immigration, provided it benefits the country, not drains it and that people adopt a British way of life.

It is hardly a minority either. As I said, in public, they speak about this "mainstream Islam" that is supposedly moderate, but behind closed doors, as documented in many places, they preach quite a different message. One of a plan to convert the infidels and take over.

If these "extremist" Wahhabbis are such a minority, why do they hold positions of such power and influence in the UK and abroad? Being the spokesperson for the MCoB on Sharia matters is hardly what you'd call a "minority", and if it is, that minority is overly represented in the associations supposedly dealing with the affairs of ALL Muslims.

Even Keith Vaz, the labour MP, has been described by the Met as "subversive" to the state, because he places his religion above anything else and is actively involved with several people suspected of terrorism charges.

If you understand the way the UK security services operate, then to call someone "subversive" is a really major thing. It is possibly the worst thing to be called by them aside from traitor.

I think a lot of people are forgetting about the general public, and the muslims there.

I'm sure most muslims don't even think about sharia law here, I mean that's why they live here, haha.

Just because few want sharia law here, you can't assume all muslims do??

Everybody is saying things like, if they want to come to this country they have to live by OUR RULESS!!!!!!! well there is something your forgetting, the majority ARE! and are living their lifes in peace, working a job looking after their family , hanging our with their friends muslim and non muslim. Thats what some of you are forgetting.

You have to stop assuming things, as a muslim I would HATE sharia law here. So you've got one vote from me.





[edit on 8-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by stumason
If these "extremist" Wahhabbis are such a minority, why do they hold positions of such power and influence in the UK and abroad? Being the spokesperson for the MCoB on Sharia matters is hardly what you'd call a "minority", and if it is, that minority is overly represented in the associations supposedly dealing with the affairs of ALL Muslims.

Money. They get their funding from the Saudi government. They've infiltrated every Muslim body there is the world over.

The Satanic Policy of the Saudi Wahabi Kingdom

Follow the money.