Intrepid,

the east coast is being raped to a degree but overall they are net receipients of funds etc. The damage done to the east coast was done many years ago and was institutionalized since. Mind you I think that that state of affairs can be reversed with a different mentality of the governments down there and of the people. Maybe the highest hurdle to overcome btw. This would put more lead in their pencils when negotiating with Ottawa and Quebec.

But I still content that most of Ottawa's priorities in my life time has been keeping Quebec happy. This was done because much of Canada's Jewish population used to live in Montreal and that was a seat of power. Also, the courting of Quebec was a method to avoid the advances of the US, because with Quebec under our arms we were 'too different compared to the Americans.' Of course this is stupidity because the US has no need to invade us and besides most of Ontario's, Alberta's and even BC's wealth in recent decades has come from serving the US market anyways.

Like everything else in this country it doesn't make any sense. Quebec is an anachrism that must find its own way to survive or it will risk destroying this country called Canada.

Have you lived in Atlantic Canada? In1984 we were told that there was no fish, but Spain was allowed to harvest, WHY? They, and I mean we actually because I have been forced to live in Ont. to survive, have been dictated to. 20 years ago I was able to make a living, now I live elsewere to do so. BTW, my brother is a licensed electrician and he is making a living as a part-time short order cook. So, I'm saying "quit you're bitching."

intrepid,

no I haven't lived in the east coast of Canada but I have seen a good part of it and known many people from there. In fact I had one roommate for 9 years that was from PEI. I knew many people well and I have heard a lot of stories over the years.

In regards fishing there were abuses by locals too and there still are. The problem with Ottawa and the foreign fishers stems from our inability to stand up to anyone because we do not have the ability to do it or our French eurocentric value system in Ottawa prevents us from doing it.

Much of the east coasts problems reside in Quebec. Not all of them but a majority of them from where I sit. Funny but you deny this and this is the second time I have had to repeat this to you?

I feel sorry you had to leave and your brother is not doing as well as he likes. I can tell you that things are not so good here in Toronto now either. Toronto is now called a 'world city' and it looks it too. In this town, any immigrant that touches his foot on Canadian soil is just as good as I am even though my family has been here for hundreds of years? Go figure? It doesn't get any better when it comes to employment either because as a visible minority or woman you get the pick of employment in this city and this has been going on for a few decades now.

I am not bitching I am telling the truth, what you are talking about I have no idea. I am trying to point out the hugh negative effect that Quebec has on this country and yet you deny it. I guess being French means you never have to accept reality.

Neo, from where you are sitting I can only imagine that you are doing it with your head up your a$$. I work in Toronto and I don't see anything untoward there. Look at the outlaying areas, they are booming. Sure Brampton has been called Bramptladesh, but look at the work these people are doing. Would you be a cabbie, or run a conveience store? They come here and work hard. They have been displaced from their country as I have been displaced from my province. I think that you are probably AFRAID to compete.

Originally posted by intrepid
Neo, from where you are sitting I can only imagine that you are doing it with your head up your a$$. I work in Toronto and I don't see anything untoward there. Look at the outlaying areas, they are booming. Sure Brampton has been called Bramptladesh, but look at the work these people are doing. Would you be a cabbie, or run a conveience store? They come here and work hard. They have been displaced from their country as I have been displaced from my province. I think that you are probably AFRAID to compete.

Sorry man but you are the person here with the attitude. Regarding these people, they don't work in the stores they OWN them! Or else you didn't notice that? Regarding that as a career my family used to own such stores and I started working in such stores so what is YOUR POINT?

Regarding being displaced from their countries that is not true. Most immigrants are economic immigrants and not what you presuppose. Regarding being able to compete I haven't the least reservation in that regard but when the system cheats against its own people to push them ahead then enough is enough.

BTW why are you kissing their butts anyways? You not telling the truth about this issue either? I know you are French so you will never say anything against Quebec or even liberals. So why you busting your butt over immigrants?

Originally posted by insite
Why do francophones consider themselves another race?

FOCLMAO...roll on the floor

I am sorry but I have heard about the separatist issue since I was a child.....LOL...
excuse me while i wipe the laughter tears away

FieryIce,

you and me both are crying along with a lot of other people in our great county.

I wish they would make a decision one way or the other: Go or stay and become Canadians like the rest of us, hell I'll even let them keep speaking French if they like.

Neo, my lineage is British/German. I had a grandmother that was French(N.B.), but I hardly knew her. That being said, my point is that it is not the French people the are a problem, but the Quebec GOVERNMENT. And that has been quiet for a decade. If they were as you say don't you think they would have seperated by now? BTW, when did their gov. give the people a referendum on joining Canada?

Intrepid,

sorry my friend, now we can have a constructive debate here.

I do agree that governments are talking for the Quebec people more than the people are talking but the government must reflect some of the people's beliefs and the government must also influence some of the people's beliefs.

Who then is the Quebec Government? The JEWS of Montreal? Chew on that for awhile.

Either way it is an unfair deal with Quebec getting what it wants at the rest of our expense.

Look at this Cherry and O'Brien deal, don't you agree it is simply stupid? And I am told they are spending government money to investigate this? Investigate what? I can see new laws coming such that nobody can say anything against them ever without being charged under the law. That is what I see and Ottawa being controlled about the French faction can do nothing about it.

What about Chretien and his Quebec slush fund? How much money was used to grease palms in Quebec for a handful of votes? Quebec didn't even vote strongly for the liberals last election anyways. Does that mean in order to get anyone to vote for you in Quebec that you have to buy their votes? What criminals.

Sorry man but I am not impressed with this province, its government or many of its people. Yes there are good Quebecers, but all to sadly too few.

Neo, you are almost there. I agree with half of that statement. With your mistrust of gov. I don't know why you can't get it. Yes, Jewish interests in Montreal, but also English interests as well. Montreal has a large English-speaking community. Don't you think that these interests gain by keeping this seperation thing alive, more federal money? Carlin," They will use anything, race, language, sexual orientation, what ever, to divide us, so they(the rich) can keep on to the # ing bank." My point is it's not the average person. You give the province a FAIR referendum on ratifying the constitution and it comes back NO, then I will agree to your argument.

Intrepid,

I am aware that there is a large and powerful anglo community in Montreal. There are many old Irish there as you are aware as well as anglos in general.

There is truth to your assertions that they are out for themselves to a degree and I have known my share of them over the years. But many left in the 80s and less so in the 90s. Most there now I am sure are in for the long haul. But is Quebec that desparate that the only way it can balance its books is to shaft much of the rest of the country? So sad really. I know that they have a Cadillac social security system by North American standards so that is part of the problem.

Yes, referendums have been nonsense. I was angry with the last one, which Ottawa contrived via the provincial ties it had to cause failure. I agree with you on that. I would rather ask someone a question they can answer honestly even if I hate the answer than ask a question that I know they can never relate to. So stupid.

The real problem in the end has been the elites in Ontario. Westerners and Easterners have come up to the plate on many occasions to voice their dissatisfaction with the status quo but Ontarians are afraid of change. This need for change is starting to brew now and it all starts right here in Toronto of all places.

In the end I hope the fate of Quebec is decided by its people and they are satisfied on the whole with the outcome.

Bingo. As for change, let's ask Ernie Eves if he thinks that Ontarian's don't want change. Same can be said of the provincial workers, of which I'm one. They were so intent on getting the Tories out they didn't see what they were actually voting for. They are now planning to vote McGuilty out in 31/2 years. Sorry about the time lag, I had to go to the store, you know, to buy beer, donuts and a hockey stick.

Intrepid,

funny you mention Ernie, although I hated to see mike leave I did support him. I am a longtime supporter of the reform and conservatives here in Ontario.

I last spoke to our past riding president and he said to me that Canadians: 'Never vote for someone but only vote against someone they decide they don't like anymore.' Well he hit it on the head for sure.

I agree that McGunity is finished already. I think even the liberals know it too. It's gonna be 31/2 long years waiting for it to happen. Oh well at least there is a lot of time to prepare for that election.

True, that is the politics here. You don't vote in, you vote out. So who's in next? I wasn't here for the N.D.P. years but apperently those weren't the greatest either. Maybe we should start the ATS party now, seeing that Ontarians are out of options. BTW, I supported Harris as well. I'm not Cons., Lib. or N.D.P., I'm right in the middle and I just thought that the Tories were the best this time.

Let me put it to you this way, I had just graduated University when Rae was elected and being a white male it was a disaster!

We entered a deep and protracted recession because business did not invest in 'such a hostile environment.' I think that american interests tended to avoid Ontario during those years too.

I don't blame Rae for all of this, some of it was an overreaction but he did manage to even turn his own supporters against him. Quite unbelievable.

I do remember that politically correctness reigned supreme during those years and it hurt me personally. I did not vote for him but I swore that I would never vote NDP ever and that I would always fight them. I think it was Rae that sent me to the Conservative party which is now unified again and I think better than ever.

I watch CBC, mainly the news and such, one thing to comment on. Canada still exists, right? Watching the news it seems BC is a country, Ontario is a country, Newfoundland is a country, Quebec is a country, Sasca...... no Canada, but lots of different countries full of canadians. Canada sucks, go America, our money is worth more than our toilet paper.

James,

not sure what you mean?

I have been in the US, and anyone will tell you that the state system is just as individualistic and devisive as Canada's provincial system is.

Regarding our currency it is really not a big issue because it all comes down to standard of living. I think that the difference between Canada and the US is not that great but I would say that American's are on average better off than Canadians. But Americans to a degree do not enjoy some of the same certanties that any Canadian does such as health care for example. It all comes down to being in a place that helps you realize your ambitions in life best. Frankly, I think I would make a better American than a Canadian. On the other hand many of the leftwing Americans would probably like Canada better.

Neo, I have never lived in an N.D.P. run province. Federally, I wouldn't discount the NDP.(to many periods). Ed Broadbent is coming back. He was an anomoly, an honest politician. He garnered favour during the Trudeau years. Hopefully he has learned to lie when it's needed. He would make a great PM. He's a lot like Martin, I believe him when he says that he will step down if this scandal touches him. You have to understand the intense hatred Cretien has for Martin, I would not put it past him to have set this in motion. As for moving to the States been there, done that. I know when I've got it , not good but better.

intrepid,

no offense but I don't have any respect for the left wing. they tried to destroy me and I will never forgive them for it. they still would if they could too and I know it. besides I am not a boot licker and never will be. at least in the business world a man is still measured by his efforts and talents unlike in their world where your beliefs are everything.

too bad I would have rather been in your place and went to the US, I would have liked it I know.

I don't dislike Broadbent and I believe he is more honest than most. I do like Martin more than most Liberals that I have seen in many years. Too bad he wasn't in Chretien the lizards place instead. But I still can't vote for him and won't. Besides he is a liberal and they are the biggest liars of all, more than the NDP and more than the Conservatives.

Honestly, who do the Tories have?