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"High-Level" Masons? Doesn't appear to be.

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posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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Just some questions...

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Many conspiracy theorists will say that there is indeed a hierarchy amongst masons, with "low level" masons on the bottom who are completely ignorant of the "great conspiracy" and "high level" masons on the top who are not only aware of the "great conspiracy," but are also mastermining and controlling it.

What is the 'great conspiracy?'


For example, a conspiracy theorist may concede a 33rd degree mason who has been a member of a lodge for decades can be completely in the dark about the "great conspiracy," but recent initiates into "Skull and Bones" (who according to some Conspiracy theorists is part of masonry even though virtually all masons would deny it) are part of or wil soon be part of "high level" masonry.

What Lodge gives out the 33rd degree?

How are the Skull & Bones connected to Freemasonry?

What is 'high level' Masonry?

Your pal,
Meat.




posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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I by no means agree with theory that their is a great masonic conspiracy that only a few elite masons know about. I agree with all the flaws in the theory that others point out. I am just trying to point out one of the theories that floats around about masons.

I think the most troubling thing about the "high level" mason theory is that it cannot be disproven. If a mason or anybody for that matter says , "Masonry is not about any conspiracies, it is just a social club," conspiracy theorists will say that either the person is lying to cover up the conspiracy or that he is in the dark because he is not a "high level" mason. Either way, you cannot argue the point with a conspiracy theorist.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I think the most troubling thing about the "high level" mason theory is that it cannot be disproven. If a mason or anybody for that matter says , "Masonry is not about any conspiracies, it is just a social club," conspiracy theorists will say that either the person is lying to cover up the conspiracy or that he is in the dark because he is not a "high level" mason. Either way, you cannot argue the point with a conspiracy theorist.


Quite right. In the end though it's all about balance of probabilities. I am always ready and willing to discuss this particular point with anyone, but have always been frustrated by the lack of ability of anyone to satisfactorily define what a "high level freemason" actually is. It's not a phrase used in freemasonry so it must have been coined by an anti-mason somewhere.

The whole thing leaves me confused as to where this whole "high level freemasons" came from in the first place



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I think the most troubling thing about the "high level" mason theory is that it cannot be disproven. If a mason or anybody for that matter says , "Masonry is not about any conspiracies, it is just a social club," conspiracy theorists will say that either the person is lying to cover up the conspiracy or that he is in the dark because he is not a "high level" mason. Either way, you cannot argue the point with a conspiracy theorist.

Well, I dunno. I know several 33rds, a bunch of Knights Templar, a 50 year SR member, a few former Grand Lodge officers, a number of PMs, and can see that there is at least one KCCH member here. It doesn't get that much "higher" up than that.

None of these people know of or speak of any 'conspiracy.'

So, then, I believe that it's less up to the Masons to deny that there's a conspiracy than it's up to the anti-Masons to prove that there is a conspiracy. The reflex argument - "high level" doesn't fly. Not just because there's not really any such thing, but because there's no specific Evil Master Plan ever mentioned; it's always a nebulous 'conspiracy' that involves other groups.

There's the disconnect: the dots aren't ever connected, and the links are never satisfactorily made to any other 'world domination' plan.

That, then, is where to start. Figure out what the 'conspiracy' is and then link to how it's all going to go down.

Save the cheerleader, save the world.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 



Hello, I am BRAND NEW to this site, but not at all new to the idea of masonry, Freemasons run in my family from my Grandfather to Cousins to Great Uncle's, I have always been infatuated with the idea of freemasons, and I loved Mason philosophy, and how they hold themselves as prominent well respected men of society. I have been researching day and night about freemasonry, and learned more then I know i should have for someone who is to be an apprentice very soon. I have been reading the book "The Deadly Deception" I would recommend it to you, the more i researched though about masonry, the more convinced i became that 33rd's were luciferian worshippers gaining there deceiftul powers from the "light bearer" lucifer. Freemasons who created most of D.C. and the washington Monument created it to be 666 ft tall, there is much evidence that supports this. I was just wondering maybe, if you could give me some insight on how you feel about this?



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


I know this is an old thread but I feel a few things need clarification.
The washington monument is 555 feet tall.
33rd degree is an honorary degree mainly given to men who have been 32nd degree for years and have contributed greatly to their community through humanitarian efforts.
Not all men get 32nd degree over a weekend or 2. Some, like myself, go through it over several months. There isn't a magic masonic wand that will wave and make you instantly 32nd degree that I am aware of.
I can say these things because it is publically available.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I have been researching day and night about freemasonry, and learned more then I know i should have for someone who is to be an apprentice very soon.


Nonsense. The only thing a Mason would suggest you keep out of is Duncan's Ritual or any other monitor/exposé that will show you the rituals and taint the experience of your initiation. Even then, it'd only be a suggestion.


I have been reading the book "The Deadly Deception" I would recommend it to you


If you believe that The Deadly Deception is worth recommending as a source of honest information, I have a recommendation for you: Is It True what They Say about Freemasonry?: The Methods of Anti-Masons, by Brent Morris and Art deHoyos . Chapter 5 deals specifically with the several untruthful claims about Jim Shaw's Masonic involvement, using sources from the bodies Shaw claims to have received degrees in or presided over. Chapter 7 (I'll link to it when I can) goes into further detail regarding Shaw's lies, and details the correspondence between the authors and a confirmed anti-Mason who set out to defend Shaw and ended up dropping The Deadly Deception completely from his ministry's suggested reading.


the more i researched though about masonry, the more convinced i became that 33rd's were luciferian worshippers gaining there deceiftul powers from the "light bearer" lucifer.


I'd be interested to see how you came to this conclusion. Something tells me this had something to do with it.


Freemasons who created most of D.C.


Such as?


and the washington Monument created it to be 666 ft tall, there is much evidence that supports this.


Given that, as previously mentioned, the monument is 111 feet shorter than that, I don't see what "evidence" can "support it".


I was just wondering maybe, if you could give me some insight on how you feel about this?


How I feel about it: it's saddening and frustrating that false information is accepted without question so long as it confirms the suspicions of the audience.

I have a question, though: how do you feel about it? Why are you planning to join an organization that you believe operates in this fashion? Why are you willing to believe a stranger with direct financial incentive over an organization of millions, including your own family, who would tell you otherwise for free?
edit on 28-3-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: minor E&O stuff



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by mmmeat
 


Hey, I am new to this site, but I have been researching masonry for a long time, it runs in my family and im not sure if any of my grandfathers or great uncles ever made it past the 3rd degree. But thats besides the point. I have been doing much research on the "conspiracy" of freemasons and the elite and keeping 98% of freemasons in the dark. This is what i have concluded and i would greatly appreciate some input. The Bible speaks of Satan decieving all the nations, he uses the "33rds" to make the deciet happen, when i first heard that 33rds were devil worshipping leaders i giggled and thought what a nutcase. But the more i looked into the idea and how it came to be, the more plausible it seemed. Read the book "the deadly deception" by Jim Shaw and Mckenney. Freemasons never use the word God in any rituals simply architect of the universe. Pierre Charles designed the Washington Monument, im not saying if he was a mason or not I Dont Know. Im sure youve read about the satanic outline of DC and that the washington monument is 555ft tall, and goes down 111ft, there is no way this is a mere coincedence. Freemasons are all about architect and designing things. any ideas on this??



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Volund
 


Yes the monument is 555ft tall, but it goes down in the ground 111ft to give it support. So, overall the monument is 666ft together. I can send you credible websites that can verify this claim.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


I appreciate that recommendation i will deffinitley check out the book. The Washington Monument stands tall at 555ft, but it needs to go down in the earth to keep it from falling on its side to give it support and Pierre (Not saying hes a mason or not, sources say he is not) decided it would be best to make it go down 111ft, so all in all the Monument itself is 666ft.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


According to Wikipedia, the foundation for the Washington Monument is only about 40 feet deep. I couldn't find their sources for the foundation depth, but the rest of their specifics seem to jibe with known information.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


This is completely untrue and construction photos of the structure do not show a 111' deep hole where the monument was erected.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by santjime

Hey, I am new to this site, but I have been researching masonry for a long time, it runs in my family and im not sure if any of my grandfathers or great uncles ever made it past the 3rd degree.


You need to research a little harder. The statement "made it past the 3rd degree" communicates a fundamental misunderstanding of Freemasonry.


But thats besides the point. I have been doing much research on the "conspiracy" of freemasons and the elite and keeping 98% of freemasons in the dark. This is what i have concluded and i would greatly appreciate some input.


How does this work? At what point does one enter the rarified air of the Masonic elite? This is often alleged, but I've yet to see a working model for the evil Masonic hierarchy.


The Bible speaks of Satan decieving all the nations, he uses the "33rds" to make the deciet happen


Chapter and verse, please.


when i first heard that 33rds were devil worshipping leaders i giggled and thought what a nutcase.


That's a pretty good assumption.


But the more i looked into the idea and how it came to be, the more plausible it seemed. Read the book "the deadly deception" by Jim Shaw and Mckenney.


You mean the where Jim Shaw lied about being Master of a lodge, lied about being a KCCH, lied about being a 33rd, lied about alcohol in the lodge and Scottish Rite, lied about dues for the organizations, and made up a Scottish Rite position that he claimed to hold?


Freemasons never use the word God in any rituals simply architect of the universe.


Absolutely, positively, unquestionably false. The word God is used in every blue lodge ritual; in Florida (where Jim Shaw was a Mason; I'm assuming you get this claim from him) GAOTU is never used (a similar phrase appears exactly once).


Pierre Charles designed the Washington Monument, im not saying if he was a mason or not I Dont Know.


Until evidence is provided that he was, the position an honest man takes is that he was not.


Im sure youve read about the satanic outline of DC


The one with the crooked star and non-90-degree square. Yeah, seen it.


the washington monument is 555ft tall, and goes down 111ft, there is no way this is a mere coincedence.


Addressed previously.


Freemasons are all about architect and designing things. any ideas on this??


Actually, we're really not anymore.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


I appreciate the enlightenment, but I am still skeptical, and as for the comment about being past the 3rd degree, i am assuming your reffering to the fact that Master Mason is the highest you can be regardless of what degree you are, I understand that, i was just making the comment because one can climb the symbolic stairs of degrees.

And about it being 11ft deep, we all know wikipedia is a very reliable source and anyone can update that information. I will send the credible website for the 111ft, common logic can bring you to understand that any formation 555ft tall is going to need alot more then 11ft deep to keep it stable. www.explainthatstuff.com...
that explain the flaw in the logic of 11ft. . . . .as opposed to 111ft. . .please keep an open mind and understand where im coming from.

and i will also send you the verse i believe it is in the book of Revelations.
And yes i was referring to Jim Shaws claims about the God referrences in lodges, thankyou for the correction!



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Do you have the photos? i would appreciate that! And proof that the photos are of the monument and not just a hole in the ground. here is a website the exposes the flaw in that claim. . . how 11ft would not work and any constructionist (is that a word?) would know this www.explainthatstuff.com...



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


Oh and correction the washington monument WAS in fact created by a well respected freemason. . .Robert Mills. . . .think about it. . . . .



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


Robert Mills is well known for creating the famous buildings in the District of Columbia he also created the layout, a well known freemason. . .please research with a unbiased mind.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


I fail to see anyone stating the base is 11 feet deep. I read 40 feet. Technically it is 36 feet 10 inches which rounds up to 40, not down to 11. That is about 12 yards.

On a side note: did you know that if even 1 Mason objects to you joining you're out, it is not a majority vote. The Grand Lodge may be interested in your research. Don't take that the wrong way... Your theories may fascinate a few, but be careful you don't offend just one.
I used to help in our library at the Scottish Rite and never ran across any secret satanic texts, I would think I would have found one if you are correct. I also used to teach the degrees. And never ran across anything.
Or did I.... Nah.
Thanks for posting.

edit on 28-3-2011 by Volund because: Tone

edit on 28-3-2011 by Volund because: Uber secret things deleted... No it was my tone again



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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On a side note: did you know that if even 1 Mason objects to you joining you're out, it is not a majority vote. The Grand Lodge may be interested in your research. Don't take that the wrong way...
reply to post by Volund
 


Explain Please?
and im not making any claims, im simply keeping an open mind, im all about masonry, i LOVE the philosophy and the way they hold themselves together and are well respected prominent men of society. I simply ran across a few things and was curious, you claim your a mason and im disappointed in your condescending attitude. Yes i understand my skeptiscism is out there and runs along with the other "nut cases" i never said i agreed with them i simply stated that it caught my eye and i looked into it and wanted other FACTUAL opinions, which is what i got, im very pleased with what ive found and grateful and i would like to thankyou for,
Light Love Truth

edit on 29-3-2011 by santjime because: thanking member for taking time out of thier day

edit on 29-3-2011 by santjime because: thanking member for taking time out of thier day



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by santjime
 


I don't think you're naive. I think perhaps you have stumbled across disinformation, seeking clarification is wise.

It is not a secret that there are focus groups, and it is they who may be interested in sharing information with you someday. The -_____ ______ publish studies every year though not publically. I entered the name in google and nothing hit so i omitted it.

I wouldn't trust any online sources anyway unless they can be met in person and membership in good standing verified through the Grand Lodge, I learned that lesson once.




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