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"High-Level" Masons? Doesn't appear to be.

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posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by santjime
 


NYTimes article from 1877. Doesn't give the depth, but does explain how they reinforced it... So they might not have needed to go as deep as you claim.

This link explicitly lists the depth of the foundation as 36 feet 10 inches.




posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by santjime
...how 11ft would not work and any constructionist (is that a word?) would know this www.explainthatstuff.com...


Who said anything about it being 11'? It is closer to 40'.

Your logic in regards height to foundation depth is flawed. Another consideration is the District of Columbia has a high water table; how would they have dug 100+' without having to deal with a major construction issue?



edit on 29-3-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by santjime
 


there is nothing wrong with trying to find answers. Just make sure you are willing to accept that the answers might not be as exciting as you hoped they would be. I would suggest you not join if you have any thoughts of masonry being evil at any level. If you cannot find a good source for your information on the Washington Monument, I suggest calling the historical society in DC.

801 K Street Northwest Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 383-1800




edit on 29-3-2011 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus won't share his beer



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by santjime
 


there is nothing wrong with trying to find answers. Just make sure you are willing to accept that the answers might not be as exciting as you hoped they would be. I would suggest you not join if you have any thoughts of masonry being evil at any level. If you cannot find a good source for your information on the Washington Monument, I suggest calling the historical society in DC.

801 K Street Northwest Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 383-1800




edit on 29-3-2011 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus won't share his beer


Excellent post. I think you about sum it up for me.



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by santjime
And about it being 11ft deep


Which was never claimed.


we all know wikipedia is a very reliable source and anyone can update that information.


This is true, and I admitted it wasn't to be accepted as gospel without further corroboration. However, I also said that its accuracy on every other measurement (all of which were sourced) could be taken as an indicator of the accuracy of its foundation depth, which you seem to have glossed over.


I will send the credible website for the 111ft


We're waiting. Funny how you're willing to quibble over my sources but haven't yet posted your own.


common logic can bring you to understand that any formation 555ft tall is going to need alot more then 11ft deep to keep it stable.


Which would explain why no one claimed it.


please keep an open mind and understand where im coming from


Says the man who refuses to accept 100% accuracy in every other area as an indicator of an article's reliablility on a minor issue.


and i will also send you the verse i believe it is in the book of Revelations.


I'll admit I haven't read the whole of Revelation, but you'd think given the prevalence of anti-Masonic fundamentalist Protestantism someone would have brought "and Satan didst use those of the 33rd degree to deceive the world" to our attention.


And yes i was referring to Jim Shaws claims about the God referrences in lodges, thankyou for the correction!


Is this the part where you finally stop considering him a credible source for Masonic information?



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 02:48 AM
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Sorry I have not replied, i will reply later with a full response as i have been very busy with my day to day life. but yes the 11ft was a misread as i do make mistakes. But i did some math and i also came to the fact that 555 X 12
is 6660, what im saying is that in inches it is 6660. yes that may be out there, just something to think about.
and if you go to my profile and check out my pictures, i have but a few, i posted them for this forum. . .you will see pictures of a room that im sure most of you will recognize...you may deny that it is not infact the 33 degree temple, but you will notice snakes on the wall i have not yet found the original source for these photos, but im certain they originate on a Grandlodges website .. .. .. and i have been doing some research about george washington, and i came over something that caught my eye, his letters between him and this german man named Snyder, i have a feeling that some reading this already know all about those letters. . . So was John Robison lying in his 1798 book "Proof of a Conspiracy against All the Religions of Governments Europe Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons Illuminati and Reading Societies" was that just a big fabriacted lie as well. . .C'mon, why are you DENYING the truth so persistently???? Ive begun to think that some reading this know all about the bigger scheme in this world and devoted themselves into denying it as much as possible to others and persuading others into the wrong direction. . . ANY ideas? or am i just going crazy?



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 02:54 AM
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posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by santjime
.you will see pictures of a room that im sure most of you will recognize...you may deny that it is not infact the 33 degree temple, but you will notice snakes on the wall i have not yet found the original source for these photos,


Why would anyone want to deny it? It is the Temple Room of the Scottish Rite Supreme Council, and is a very beautiful building.


So was John Robison lying in his 1798 book "Proof of a Conspiracy against All the Religions of Governments Europe Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons Illuminati and Reading Societies" was that just a big fabriacted lie as well


Robison's book is long discredited, and has never been taken seriously by academic historians.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 

Robison admits that he uses what others have said, but never bothers to cute these 2nd hand sources.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by santjime
i did some math and i also came to the fact that 555 X 12
is 6660, what im saying is that in inches it is 6660.


When you were certain the foundation was 111 feet deep, the foundation was critical to calculating height. Now that it's been proven otherwise, you just throw out the foundation when calculating height. I wish my standards were that convenient.

Moreover, 666 has a specific Gematriac relationship to a concept. Adding a digit creates a significantly different message.


you may deny that it is not infact the 33 degree temple, but you will notice snakes on the wall i have not yet found the original source for these photos, but im certain they originate on a Grandlodges website


Probably from the Scottish Rite SMJ website. What's wrong with snakes?


and i have been doing some research about george washington, and i came over something that caught my eye, his letters between him and this german man named Snyder, i have a feeling that some reading this already know all about those letters


I'm assuming you mean the ones where he denies that Masonic lodges carry water for the Illuminati.


So was John Robison lying in his 1798 book "Proof of a Conspiracy against All the Religions of Governments Europe Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons Illuminati and Reading Societies" was that just a big fabriacted lie as well. . .


A) Robison and his French counterpart Barruel were staunch monarchists living in the throes of revolution. While I will assume the best of their intentions, they were men looking for a scapegoat for the tumult that could keep their bosses from addressing the real problems. Even you'd have to admit they had motive to stretch the available evidence and interpret events for convenience, as history shows they did.

B) Even assuming what Robison said is true (and, if you read my link, you have no reason to), Robison still makes a clear distinction between the kind of Masonry he's talking about (Continental) and ours (mainstream).


C'mon, why are you DENYING the truth so persistently????


Because every "fact" you've brought up has been shown with clear and publicly available evidence to be fraudulent. That you keep insisting in spite of each round of debunking that something just has to be going on is what I'd consider the act of denial here.


Ive begun to think that some reading this know all about the bigger scheme in this world and devoted themselves into denying it as much as possible to others and persuading others into the wrong direction


Of course. The side that brings you this information for free has the agenda, and the people who made a career of anti-Masonry are of lily-white motives.
edit on 1-4-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: forgot to add a point



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


@ onthelevel213 i will admit im not informed enough to uderstand what all of that reading means i did read all of it, but i will do more researching on it later. It was though terrible to hear what happened to all those masons in the revolution being slaughtered ]:

Just wondering, do any other lodges have so much artwork of serpents all over their temples or lodges?
I found out if you just google temple room of scottish rite supreme council a freemason website gives many photos of the beautiful and magnificent artwork inside.

Someone stated earlier that freemasons had stopped using their architect skills of hidden symbols, the columns that surround the temple are 33ft high, signifying the 33degree. and that was in1915 or so, less then one hundred years ago.

Im not sure what to make out of yalls response about John Robisons book as i have not yet read it..just curious have any of yall read it? is it worth the read? the fact that conspirators were making the same claims we do now about the illuminati almost 200 years ago, to me shows great significance in the find.

So would anyone deny the link between our dollar bill and freemasonry??? I have read that many masons claim the pyramid on the dollar bill and the all seeing eye are radically different from the masonic triangle and there all seeing eye.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by santjime
Im not sure what to make out of yalls response about John Robisons book as i have not yet read it..just curious have any of yall read it? is it worth the read? the fact that conspirators were making the same claims we do now about the illuminati almost 200 years ago, to me shows great significance in the find.
Well, back when Robison wrote it, there was an organization actually calling themselves the Illuminati. No such organization exists today (or if it does, it's not the same one that was founded in Bavaria in 1776.) So one could argue that Robison was wrong, and conspiracy theorists today are even more wrong, because they're basing their theories on 200 year old mistakes.


So would anyone deny the link between our dollar bill and freemasonry???
Yes, I think most here would deny such a link. None of the people who designed the final version of the Great Seal of the United States were Masons. There were one or two Masons on earlier versions of the committee, including Ben Franklin, but their ideas were not used... (like Franklin wanting a turkey instead of a bald eagle...)

Nowhere in Masonic symbolism (nor, for that matter, Bavarian Illuminati symbolism) does there apear an unfinished pyramid topped with an eye. Nowhere. That's a lie, started, as far as I've been able to tell, by William Guy Carr in his 1956 book "Pawns in the Game". He didn't cite any sources, and other claims in the same book have been proven false by other scholars.

Do Masons use the all seeing eye to represent the omniscience of God? Yes. But Christians have been using the same symbol for the same thing for 2000 years, and the Egyptians used it as a symbol for their gods even before that. So just because it has an eye, doesn't mean its Masonic.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


Someone stated earlier that freemasons had stopped using their architect skills of hidden symbols, the columns that surround the temple are 33ft high, signifying the 33degree. and that was in1915 or so, less then one hundred years ago.


That would be me. I feel like you misunderstood; I meant that we're not really operative (working) masons anymore. Of course expensive buildings commissioned for a fraternity dedicated to symbolism is going to have its flourishes.


Im not sure what to make out of yalls response about John Robisons book as i have not yet read it..just curious have any of yall read it?


I've read enough to become aware of its claims.


the fact that conspirators were making the same claims we do now about the illuminati almost 200 years ago, to me shows great significance in the find.


People still believe the Taxil hoax 120 years after it was confessed as such. People still cite Jim Shaw almost 20 years after Brent Morris and Art deHoyos exposed him as a liar. People on here still quote three sentences of JFK asking for more closely guarding information as though he's some kind of anti-Masonic angel, even after the full text has been analyzed; hell, JoshNorton even showed pictures of JFK holding a meet-and-greet with the Supreme Council.

If there's a "significance" to the fact that Robison and modern conspiracy theorists make the same claim, it's that a certain kind of person believes whatever best agrees with the conclusions he already has, and doesn't care about the facts.


So would anyone deny the link between our dollar bill and freemasonry??? I have read that many masons claim the pyramid on the dollar bill and the all seeing eye are radically different from the masonic triangle and there all seeing eye.


Most independent historians agree.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by santjime

Just wondering, do any other lodges have so much artwork of serpents all over their temples or lodges?


Probably somewhere. The serpent is the ancient oriental symbol of wisdom, which the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry attempts to promote.



Someone stated earlier that freemasons had stopped using their architect skills of hidden symbols, the columns that surround the temple are 33ft high, signifying the 33degree. and that was in1915 or so, less then one hundred years ago.


That's not hidden symbols. It was made that way purposely and openly to symbolize the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite of Masonry.


Im not sure what to make out of yalls response about John Robisons book as i have not yet read it..just curious have any of yall read it? is it worth the read? the fact that conspirators were making the same claims we do now about the illuminati almost 200 years ago, to me shows great significance in the find.


As I mentioned previously, Robison's work is not taken seriously by academics. If you want to read it, go ahead.


So would anyone deny the link between our dollar bill and freemasonry??? I have read that many masons claim the pyramid on the dollar bill and the all seeing eye are radically different from the masonic triangle and there all seeing eye.


The symbols you are referring to comprise the Great Seal of the United States. Of the committee appointed to devise the seal, only one (Benjamin Franklin) was a Mason. Franklin's design was completely different from the one afterward adopted. The symbols on the one dollar bill were created by non-Masons.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


im not saying that every conspiracy that has gone on for so long would have to be true, i just stated there may be significance in the find, the lochness monster is an ancient conspiracy, but all we have are a few doctored photos that keep that myth alive, as for this one....the evidence all adds up to what yall claim a mere coincedence..and yes maybe every conspirator may not have EXACT FACTS, with people to cite every claim, hell its supposed to be a royal secret of some sort, so if true conspirators could cite every claim and back up every claim with pure fact then that would show some flaw in the elites agenda, and that wouldnt make sense either. but thats besides the point.

Well im going to do a little more research on jim shaws book and John robisons book, im not trying to argue with yall, simply come here with "evidence" and see how yall refute it, because im assuming yall are very educated in yalls studies.

but as for the dollar bill, would you go the extra mile and claim that this as well is just ANOTHER mere coincedence???? I would find this TRUELY almost IMPOSSIBLY hard to believe. . . . . . . . . .im not saying i wont accept the TRUE facts that yall claim to state, im just not willing to accept them just yet


Sorry i didnt mean for the pictures to appear so large,
But also, So no one is really sure if serpents appear in any other lodges. . .but the 33 degree temple is stunningly dressed in beautiful artwork of the serpent?

edit on 1-4-2011 by santjime because: forgot to make a point



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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AND HERE WE SEE THE SERPENT AND THE OWL AT BOTH HANDS OF THE SUPREME MASON (IM NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THE MASONIC SYMBOL IS...ANY ONE CAN HELP ME WITH THAT?) BUT TO BE AT BOTH HANDS SHOWS THAT THESE TWO FIGURES HOLD GREAT SIGNIFICANCE WITH THE 33RD SUPREME


edit on 1-4-2011 by santjime because: added something



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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edit on 1-4-2011 by santjime because: not needed



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


Is there a 9 pointed star on the dollar bill? Where?



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by santjime
 


If geometry is so important to Masons, those triangles would have been equilateral. Those aren't 60° angles...

Also, the owl is not a Masonic symbol, so why are you showing it to Masons?



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