Is The Mahdi Of Muslims Is Alive

Originally posted by worldwatcher


oh btw, The Mahdi is Not the Anti Christ. There are two separate entities.

Yes, according to The Koran and it's teachings followers.

However, it seems that a lot of our Christian membership interpret it somewhat differently and DO believe that The Mahdi is / will be the Anti-Christ.

Me, I'm just an ignorant agnostic who thinks it's irrelevant as none of us will ever know until if, or when, the time comes, and as such I think it's best just to get on with my life.

However, I do enjoy the debate and discussion and respect other opinions as long as they are reasoned and not based on blind faith.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by kangjia57
Yeh it is very simillar.

But the Bibles and Torahs original manuscrips had been lost.

See, this is exactly what I asked about in the other thread when another member was trying to show me the "prophecies" that refer to Mohammad in the Christian Bible. I asked him, after rebutting his claims, that if Muslims claim our texts are distorted, how can they quote from our "distorted" texts to verify their religion? A source is either bunk or it isn't. You can't claim the quotes that support your view are valid while other parts that debunk your view are distorted. The source (The Bible) is either true or invalid. It sounds like a game of pick and choose.

But I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. However, not much has changed. I'm still left with believing the Mahdi and Antichrist are one and the same. lol

reply to post by kangjia57


As a belief, I tolerate it more, if I had to 'choose' one between the two (and I mean under dire circumstances) it would be Islam, I have many friends who are Muslim, they hold strong moral fibre.

However, just as I don't agree about a 'man being god' in Christianity, I also don't believe in praying 5 times a day and fasting for a month (Even though its just during the day). On that note, one of my dreams was to go to Mecca once in my life.

Also, I have a scientologist friend, very smart and accomplished individual, nice stories he had mentioned about what he knows.

I also have Mormon friends, even weirder with the 'God has 2 arms and 2 legs' (and NOT referring to jesus). They take the 'God created man in his image' literally.

Also have a Jehovahs' witness friend - she believes that the 'star in the east' which whom the 3 wise men followed was actually 'Satan' trying to guide the king to Jesus's birth to kill him.

Thx

A question for anyone who may know: Do the prophecies of the Mahdi connect him in any way to the future Jewish temple that will be constructed? Is he mentioned to have anything to do with their temple? If so, how are the two related to each other?

I don't know how long this will stay up, but this radio broadcast fits perfectly with this thread.

www.khouse.org...

Listen to Friday's broadcast about Islam and the AntiChrist. For future reference (for me) it's show 450.

Mahdi being the antichrist.. was also discussed by Glenn Beck back in Nov/Dec. From what I have read there is certainly enough evidence to support that theory

reply to post by dbates


Thanks for the link DB that guy is funny Walid Shoebat that is.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by Sky watcher]

reply to post by AshleyD


I like your position on this, it is a principled one. I for one believe that the rapture must occur after the antichrist is revealed, which would be 3 and 1/2 years into the so called tribulation, based on 2 Thess 2

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

The rest of 2 Thess 2, reveals that the revelation of the antichrist occurs during the abomination of desolation wherein the ac sets himself up as god in the Jewish temple

Also very interesting is the fact that the Muslim prophecies for the Imam Mahdi dovetail nicely with the ac. In other words the muslims are being set up to follow the antichrist.
answering-islam.org.uk...
It's scary because we know how nicely the muslims treat christians and jews... NOT.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Not sure if you are familiar with gracethrufaith.com but the owner of that site allows readers to submit questions about the Bible which he always answers in a timely manner. He is also a big believer in the rapture for several solid reasons. II Thessalonians 2 was a big snag for me accepting the rapture so I asked him about it last week. I told him the people were obviously in a panic because they thought they were left behind after a supposed "gathering of the saints." I told him a pretribulation rapture makes no sense if Paul is telling them it isn't supposed to happen until after the rise of the Antichrist. I told him if millions of people disappeared off the world today, no would say, "Oh no! We missed the second coming!" We would obviously believe we missed the rapture.

He pointed out something I missed apparently due to a huge brain fart moment. He pointed out the very important phrase "the Day of the Lord" which I'm sure you know is an idiom for the tribulation and second coming. The people were being told they missed the pretribulation rapture in a false report and that they were now in the tribulation. So Paul chastised them for not remembering what he had previously told them: that the tribulation would not come until the Antichrist came to power so they were obviously not in the tribulation and the rapture had not yet come.

He goes on to point out the Holy Spirit currently holding the Antichrist back. In other parts of his epistles, he tells us the Holy Spirit is sealed within all church age believers. So, when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, so are all believing Christians of this age. Try to go back and read "The Day of the Lord" in terms of the tribulation. He's basically telling them not to be deceived because the rapture will happen first, then the Antichrist will arise, then the tribulation will begin.

I'm not going to defend that view adamantly but his explanation did offer me some comfort.

I'll post here what he basically told me in my own words:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (the pretribulation rapture). We ask you not to be unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the Day of the Lord has already come (that the tribulation has already started).

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way (by telling you that you missed the rapture and were left behind to suffer the tribulation) for that day (the tribulation) will not come until the rebellion (apostasy) and the Antichrist arises...

...Don't you remember what I told you? And now you know what is holding him back (the Holy Spirit sealed inside of you)... but the one who hold him back (the Holy Spirit preventing the rise of the Antichrist) will continue to do so until it is taken out of the way (the rapturing of the Church age believers sealed with the Holy Spirit).

That's one pro-rapture interpretation, at least.

Yes, the aspect of removal of Holy Spirit(rapture of believers) is key to pretrib position. While I speculate at that time a leader emerges. Today we have so few real leaders of the Alexander/Ceasar/Atilla type people will naturelly want to follow. Plus I don't think he will exactly be advertising heh I am the antichrist. Some may remember what was said by those that are gone. With media behind them, peace, miracles come on that will make the rapture be quickly forgotten.

reply to post by AshleyD


Well this is a little off topic but I just find it a bit of a stretch to separate the day of the Lord with our being gathered to him in this passage. The passage almost seems to imply that they are one in the same, or at least the rapture heralds the start of the day of the Lord, in which the wrath of God is poured out. That would be a pre-wrath rapture doctrine, if you haven't heard that term before.

The other big problem with pre-trib. rapture is the number of resurrections that you need to have. There will one resurrection just prior to the rapture and then there are the tribulation saints who are killed in the Lord and who are honored to take part in the 'first resurrection', according to Rev. 20:4. If so then what are the saints who were resurrected just prior to the pre-trib. rapture? So the first resurrection takes place after the pre-trib. rapture resurrection?

To me the pre-trib. rapture gets nailed together with duct tape and bailing wire. It just doesn't seem internally consistent and in my mind violates Occams razor, pick the simplest explanation that fits the facts.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by SevenThunders]

[edit on 27-1-2008 by SevenThunders]

reply to post by SevenThunders


I totally hear you. I'm 99% sure of a pretribulation rapture but if it doesn't happen then we will still "go on with God" so to speak. As to the "first resurrection." It's funny you mention that because I was just reading Revelation 20 this morning and thought, "Darn it. I'm left doubting again." Jack Kelly (of gracethrufaith.com) answers the question adequately but it's just one of those things. As they say, "You don't have to understand it in this lifetime. We'll just have to explain the pretribulation rapture doctrine to you on the way up." lol That might be what they'll have to do to me when and if it happens. But if it does not occur, at least we know what to look out for (getting back to this thread lol).

[edit on 1/27/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Well I hope you are right and I am wrong . I wouldn't mind manning the lifeboats in a timely fashion. I just have to be prepared for tribulation if I'm wrong. For me though, the current world offers enough tribulation.

Well...this is largely a thread about Christian viewpoints/opinion about the Mahdi...not exactly what I would consider authentic authority on Islam prophesy and belief!

But anyway...here's a few excerpts from Islam.tc:

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri (R.A.) relates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, "Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years."

&

1) The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)."

&

5) Abu Nadra reported: We were with the company of Jabir Ibn Abdillah... Jabir Ibn Abdillah kept quite for a while and then reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: "There would be a Caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it." I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-Ala: Do you mean Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz? They said: NO, (he would be Imam Mahdi).

SO...although this isn't complete in any regard, it IS consistent with what I've already discovered previously when researching this.

Like I said...I don't hear about the Mahdi being the harbinger or the agent of death, doom, and destruction. QUITE the OPPOSITE. Just like the Iranian President also seems to believe.

Sounds like someone I'd like to meet, to be totally honest.

Originally posted by queenannie38
He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression.

This fairness and justice entails "Islamic Justice for Islamic People via Islamic Law." Their definition of justice and fairness is the Sharia law. Separation of church and state will be a distant memory. The Mahdi will set up Islam as the religion and law. That is his definition of "justice and fairness." The Antichrist is also to come on the world scene declaring peace and creating a world wide religion and law.

He will rule for seven years.

The Antichrist will also rule for seven years.

He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)."

Both the Mahdi and Antichrist are also mentioned as specifically targeting Jews and Christians to convert to their religion. If they do not, death awaits. Keep reading concerning what the Mahdi is expected to do with Christians and Jews. He will offer them peace and life if they convert.

There would be a Caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it."

The Antichrist is also said to shower hefty gifts and wealth to his followers.

SO...although this isn't complete in any regard, it IS consistent with what I've already discovered previously when researching this.

This is the way I see it. Not a single prophecy concerning the Mahdi contradicts the prophecies of the Antichrist in a single way. The only thing that happens is that he is given more descriptions. It would be like this:

Prophet 1 states (Representing the prophecies of the Antichrist): That apple on that tree is going to fall from the branch onto the ground.

Prophet 2 states (Representing the prophecies of the Mahdi): That red apple on that tree in the back is going to fall from the branch onto the ground and land on a patch of leaves.

Nothing in prophecy 2 contradicts prophecy 1. It just adds more detail. One example of this is the Antichrist will confirm a peace treaty. The Mahdi will also confirm a peace treaty they refer to as a fourth treaty. Daniel tells us "the apple will fall" and the Islamic Hadith tells us "how the apple will fall" without ever contradicting each other.

The Mahdi (from the Hadith): "At that time, a man from among my progeny will rise and will rule for seven years... There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadhrat Haroon (A.S.) and will be upheld for seven years."

The Antichrist (from Daniel): "He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven [seven years]."

[edit on 1/30/2008 by AshleyD]

I daresay PEACE and JUSTICE mean the same thing in all tongues to all people. And given the current state of global afffairs...it's quite likely that there are OTHERS who have a better grasp on the fundamental meanings of those words than we currently do here in the U.S.

FROM another page written by those who know and follow Islam.

Concept of PEACE in Islam:

The "root" of the word "Islam" in Arabic is SALAMA which is the origin of the words Peace & / or Submission, a submission to God and peace to all humanity. It is, thus, no wonder why the salutation in Islam is: "Al-Salamu Alaikum or Peace on You."

In this regard, prophet Mohammad ordered his fellow Muslims to salute others Muslims or non-Muslims with peace when he said: "Peace Before Speech"

It is a Rule in Islam that during war time, an enemy warrior who pronounces the word peace is totally immune.

Justice:

In This regard, Muslims are governed by the rules that the relationship with non-Muslims should be based on justice, mutual respect, cooperation, and communication. The Quran is very explicit about the justice part of the relationship when God stated in Verse 60:08 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."

I have no interest in debating point by point over a theology or religion of which neither you or I am an adherent. And you can ask many of the regular ATS'ers...you certainly don't want to get ME started on the bible. Besides that, this thread is about Mahdi, not Jesus, right?


It WOULD profit us ALL into the hearts of others rather than at what is on the outside...GOD loves us all regardless of what we call HIM.

IF we do HIS commandment then the rest is details.
HIS commandment?
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
Meaning those across the globe just the same as those across the street.

♥

Originally posted by queenannie38
I have no interest in debating point by point over a theology or religion of which neither you or I am an adherent. And you can ask many of the regular ATS'ers...you certainly don't want to get ME started on the bible. Besides that, this thread is about Mahdi, not Jesus, right?

Agreed. I'm not interested in debating the theology of Islam but it is interesting nonetheless to see the similarity of the Antichrist and Mahdi prophecies. That's the only point that is important to me, at least. What Islam teaches or believes in terms of theology is not the issue at the moment. It's their eschatology concerning the Mahdi.

But the question remains (and anyone can answer this):

Other than the president of Iran and the Twelver Sect that believes the Mahdi's arrival is imminent (as in 2-3 years) what is the general view regarding his arrival? Is he believed to be alive right now or still in occlusion?

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm just curious here, AshleyD... You seem to be stressing the point of living under religious law as a bad thing - which I do agree, it is a bad thing.

But in the Christian take on these events... Doesn't Jesus come and, well... institute religious law as a thousand-year kingdom or something? Or am I to beleive that secular law remains in place and unchanged?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


We are told He sets up an earthly kingdom but I am not aware of anything that would plunge us back into Old Testament Law. In fact, it still mentions being under "grace" for that period. Therefore, no law. After the 1,000 years are over there won't even be any sin that would require a law. We are perfectly restored like it was before the fall. So, no. Not that I can see.