Is Catholicism under Persecution?

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posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 11:20 AM
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Over the years there have been many accusations levelled against Catholicism the most damaging and the most grave have centred around the sexual abuse of children.Do you believe this is well founded?Do you believe the church is being persecuted?How much does the churches policy as far as celebacy have to do with it?

This is your opportunity to give your opinion.

www.washingtonpost.com...

VATICAN CITY Cardinal Bernard Law resigned Friday as Boston archbishop, finally bowing to months of public outrage that he failed to protect children from molesters in the clergy.

He is the highest-ranking church leader to fall as a result of the clerical sex abuse crisis that has plagued the Roman Catholic Church this year.

My own opinion is that only a man who was sexually repressed in some way would take on a job where celibacy was required.The church is guilty of employing perverts by eliminating men and women with normal sex drives because of job description.What is more the church has compounded that crime by colluding to protect those perverts.The Church stands condemned and must reform.
Of course that is only my opinion I'm sure others will disagree.




posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 12:07 PM
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Its not the churches fault, its men in the churches fault.

I know i sound crazy to you guys, but the freemosans and communist have been planning infiltrating
the church for some time now just to make use of it by infiltration.

these men know what they are getting into when they enter the priesthood, when they
enter the priesthood the give their life for a moral cause along with the salvation of souls.

When they commit these acts as priest they slap our lord directly in the face considering they take
no value in what position they are in.

they are not of god.

We are living in the times where satan is attacking the church full force to drive attendance down and to give th church a bad name. he uses these men
as his weapon.

Why did not the pope remove such a man??

They are all working together in the same plan, and could care less in cleaning the church up.


basically why would you become a priest if you cant control your sick ways of lust??


Don't ever blame this on the church itself or church teaching, these men are plain evil and they will pay
dearly for their actions without mercy from god because they took on gods priesthood and
desicrated his name in front of the whole world.

there will be no mercy for them.

peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 12:43 PM
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Good topic JB1.


I'm half-agree with Truth.

I'm pretty sure that Church is infiltrated by clandestine groups who want and try to put the Church on her knees.

On the other hand, Church is just like another human organisation. And you can't have only good peoples, you'll have allways some of them who are bad.

But the Churche is responsible also. Before, the priests were allowed to marry. But in the 9th century or the 10th, I'm not sure, in Constantinople, the Church did a summit and asked to his priests to don't marry anymore.
For a simple reason. The Chruch didn't have any wealth and goods. And if her priest were not marryed, it was possible for the Church to retrieve their heritages.


It wasn't a good idea ! In the others religions ( Jews, Muslims....) Religious peoples have the right to marry, and it's better for everybody.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:28 PM
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UP come on now.

You have to understand this.

When you join the priesthood you ((know)) what you are getting into. they do not
have a gun to their heads being told to join the church.

They know they are giving their life to God and not to women or lust.

yet why do they join and commit these acts??

there you go.


No excuse is possible for why they commited those acts of evil other than they are evil
themselves.

dont try to make excuses for men who join something they know is of god yet slap him
in the face in front of the whole world.

there is no excuse for that including they do not allow marriage.

did they not know this before taking on the priesthood??

there you have it.

peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:39 PM
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"yet why do they join and commit these acts??"

Go look at the discovery channel for a few days and you'll find out why...



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 02:08 PM
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No, to say its persecutd is a wonderful way of avoiding responsibility of the actions of its members

(Burglur to police "Stop persecuting me because I like to rob houses")

This is entirely a sordid underbelly of the structure of the church and is inevitable when you practice such a philosophy as lifelong celebacy.

Don't forget what we are seeing now has also happened for the last 1500 years in the catholic church, its just the publicity that is different.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 03:03 PM
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I'm not blaming the churches teaching except as far as celibacy goes.

If a man has unnatural passions and is born into a devoutly catholic family he may feel that joining the priesthood may be a way of suppressing those passions.He may, if he is devout, feel that in the service of God those passions might recede.When in service he finds that he can not control his lusts he can feel secure in the knowledge that his place in heaven is secure after confessing(to another priest who may know all to well his colleagues problem)and repenting.

Furthermore,It is now believed by behaviourists that the victim of child abuse may often go on to abuse others later.That the abused child is a devout catholic(Otherwise the priest wouldn't have intimate access to that child)increases the chances that later he will seek to become a priest and the entire cycle is repeated.

If you take this hypothesis back it can be no surprise to see the catholic church today over run by paedophiles and homosexuals and anyone else guiltily hiding their true sexuality under a veil of celibacy while heterosexual men feel excluded by rules with no historical foundation.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 03:12 PM
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Exactly JB. Its the outcome of a non biblical tradition that is the root cause of the present crisis.

Its not "christianity" or the churches teaching, it the tradition that lifelong celebacy be enforced, which is an unnatural condition (even paul says that few people can handle it).

From that unworkable situation comes the deviants and problems that manifest today.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 04:48 PM
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The put this rule in effect for total devotion to god NC, if men cannot
handle it they should not take on the job.

correct?

read the chapter in the bible about staying a virgin where when we marry
we are concerned mor about our wife than about god.

read the 144,000 in apocolypse about the spotless virgins.

God cherishes a man whom takes on life long virginity, and thats why its implimentd into the priesthood.

again, no man has to join the priesthood.

Also ive already told god and vowed to him that (I) will remain a virgin for ever. I made this vow to him because
i want to devout my entire life to him.

I am strongly considering joining this priesthood to devout my life to souls.

its the choice of those who want to live this type of life.


peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 05:10 PM
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OK... so if men cannot handle celebacy then they shouldn't be in the church as priests.... if thats the case then why ARE so many in the church as priests, obviously the rule has not been considered.

If you take a teaching and twist it out of its context as the catholic church has done then from that distortion will come other 'sins'.

This distortion is also true of Maryanism and other pagan introduced beliefs. The distortion in the teaching leads to distortions in the body of believers. (Check out the JW's Mormons etc for distortions in teachings screwing up believers)



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 05:23 PM
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"" when you take a teaching and twist it out of context ""

what does this have to do with life long celebacy and devouting your entire
life to god??

Not every priest are heretics to their own religion ad when this happens they too
get bashed along with the heretics.


"" why do they comit these acts then ""

Not for the reason you speak of, of twistiing teaching. that has nothing to do with it, it is the
sick will of evil men whom are (ignorant) of the faith and take no value in what position they are in.


"" same with maryanism ""

This is not tuaght in our church. The church teaches the worship and only
the worship of jesus.

worshipping mary is (not) a doctrine of our church, and whoever does so is guilty
of commiting apostasy.

I have catechisms of the church, and it condemns the same thing you say they promote.


Non the less, to blame a teaching because of evil men is nonsense.

I know priest who value their church and are totally devout to god.

these men are infiltrators and heretics plain and simple.


peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 07:23 PM
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When a baby is born and abandoned it often ends up in a hospital. If has ever been in a hospital unit like this one of the orders placed on the patients sheet is for TLC. This means Tender Loving Care, what the medical order entails is for a nurse to hold and cuddle with the child at regular intervals. The reason for this treatment is that otherwise the Baby will die.

The next question is that in a lifetime to what extent does a human loose the need for Physical contact?

This issue of priest trying to undermine the church by engaging in a basic human need is just another excuse. The Priesthood want celibacy because it makes a priest appear as if he is more than human (and that is not true).

The innate and basic desire to have physical contact does not disappear because a person becomes an adult. It just does not qualify as a cause of death past a certain age. There is no reason to believe that an adult who is restricted from physical contact does not experience pain. And as a result engage in inappropriate behaviors to overcome the biological need to feel close to another person.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 08:44 PM
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You know, Buddhists practice celebacy as well (something I don't agree with) but they don't rape young boys...I think this is the most important thing that can be said about this....The problem is not in the Church, it is in the society, and the Church's lack of will to teach its own morals. We are degrading


Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 09:12 PM
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There are other reasons why Catholics would be having more problems in this respect (most of them are psychological). For one thing there is less tolerance In the Buddhist cultures for violations of law (in general). A Buddhist monk is caught violating a child will loose a lot more than his job.

Secondly all the catholic religious symbols are male or maternal in nature. That is not the same in Buddhist systems of belief. Consider as well that there are Hindu medical techniques. Which treat sexual contact as having medicinal value (applied in the format of accu-pressue, which is very similar to accu-puncture but does not involve breaking the skin). This often related to the Kundalini effect and when applied correctly can result is similar physiological responses to sexual release (orgasms).



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 09:18 PM
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toltec that is about the worst explaination ive ever heard.

No it is not trying to make men above human.

They are a representative of christ himself who was not married. If we choose to take
on such a position we vow to offer our selves to god.

corinthinas 7 32-33

"" He who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the lord, how he
may please god, where as he who is married is concerned about the world, and how he will
please his wife ""

And what makes you a man who thinks everybody has needs???

Infact i vowed to keep aa virgin my whole life.

why??

because i want to offer my life to god.

how do you know everybody has needs??

there are priest who take their faith seriously and those needs of lustfull men do not
fit their needs, but their needs are of god and souls of god.


your udgement is foolish, you have no clue who has needs and who does not.


basically those who are ignorant of the church will find any such thing to pick it apart, but
by your own pride you are wrong and your mind is empty.


My ((need)) is to serve ((god)) for eternity and to save souls while im still human, i put that aside for god.


yet you make excuses for evil men??

These men were not having sex with women, they were having sex with kids or raping them.

saaying they need needs to rape kids is pathetic..

so if they had a women they would not need to rape kids??


They are evil infiltrators to gods church.

peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 09:54 PM
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Sure "Truth" lets just skip over the fact that babies can die of loneliness as relatable to an extent that it can cause adults to react inappropriately, if they have no physical contact (this being the reason, I know everyone has sexual desires). Such things as Masturbation (which is also outlawed by the Church) and oral sex with Nuns is not enough.

My Masters Degree is in Crisis Intervention "Truth", that is a field related to the treatments of mental disorders such as delusions. Such as the ones you have about the Freemasons and Communist (but that is your excuse right?)

The church should allow MRI's on all priest accused of child abuse (as well as at entry level, as a comparison). In my professional opinion the results should be very clear (when compared to a sexually active person). The act of committing rape is potentially a symptom of the disorder.

The disorder being pedophilia brought upon by desperation as well as the delusion they can get
away with it.See its not that they need to rape kids its that in there condition they feel they can get away with
it.

As far as basing my judgement on foolish things I do not base my life on one book. That to me is foolish, so take a guess as to my opinion in relation to your judgement.

You know very recently, the sick and deluded were considered evil infiltrators (possesed by the devil). In my opinion, all you are expousing is another excuse.

Perhaps in reality the reuslt of your own delusions.



[Edited on 14-12-2002 by Toltec]



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 10:35 PM
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See Attached:

Link to site

[Edited on 14-12-2002 by Toltec]



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 10:43 PM
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" communist and freemasons are your excuse "

Not at all, i have given you qoutes from their own words and
said the have ingaged in trying to make use of the church by infiltration.

i have no excuse.

why?

because i know not all priest are evil men like these hypocrites.

your excuse is to use this to blame the whole church right?

Those men are evil and will pay for desicrating gods priesthood.

basically your saying that its just a human reaction to rape kids because they have no
personal interaction??

nonsense.

they are evil, plain and simple.


"" they also reject masterbation ""

and do you know why??

did god not strike down a man for masterbating or spilling his seed?

masterbation is wrong because it is an act of wasting seed that we should cherish.

God calls us the temple of the lord who must be holy before him.


This arguing is so wrong.

so i will end on this note toltec, and think about this.

I may enter the priesthood myself.

I love souls to absolute death.

I do (not) need a lustfull mans desires or (needs)

I have vowed to god to give my life to him aand stay a virgin for ever.


So can not another man do the same??

Infact im a man who is attraced to women, but i care more for their souls than to be a lustfull
sick man.

I would rather devout my life to god without lust than to be in lust without god, such is the case with
true priest.

something you cannot see because you have these thoughts on how stuff works in human nature which
is not of every man.

Do you think i cannot handle the priesthood toltec?

your answer will prove my point.

peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 11:13 PM
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It doesn't matter what your rules are, you shouldn't rape little boys. Why not sex with women? No, they rape minor boys. They are vile disgusting creatures, no human should treat them with more respect than that of which a rat would get.

They say they will follow stupidly along the Catholic
ways, then they rape little boys. Nothing excuses it. Like NC with his you persecuting me because I like to rob houses.

Also, why they not in jail? A couple lose their job, thats it. The church
declares bankrupt to get away from lawsuits, yet they make billions a year.Why the special treatment? Just because they preists
? Well, fine, I'm gonna become a preist
, kill a few people, then say reason I did it is because the catholic
way says I can't. Well, the catholic
way says a preist
can't rape little boys yet some do. One person had the excuse/explanation of because they are to have no sex their entire life. Well, one isn't suppose to kill someone else their entire life, doesn't mean we let them get away with murder. Yet the priests
are getting away with rape. A couple were defrocked, thats it as far as I've heard.

I swear, why not be protestant, luthern, a respectful branch of christianity? Heck, one satanist rapes a little boy, whole sect gets in trouble, a bunch of preists
do same thing, some don't even get a slap on the wrist. Why one christian branch punished outright while other isn't?

Answer to the question, no. The church
is getting what they deserve. They allow such things to happen and when they finally get caught you don't expect them to get in trouble? Ha, they deserve to be sent to a @$$ ramming prison. That way eye for an eye is literall.(sp?)



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 11:15 PM
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Truth non-of these people entered the church (for the most part) with the intention of committing these acts. That is the problem the church is having with them (the reports of their behavior is probably up to the expected standard).

Truth the attached link as well as the one above presents research into the flied of Pedophilia and
MRI as well as EEG scanning. They establish that there is sound reason to believe that this technology will in the near further aid in diagnosis.

"Truth" given what access I have to you the thing I can say for certain is that the Parenthesis I place on either side of your name is an indication of your voracity.

As far your ability to handle becoming a priest, my impression is that if you scheduled some weekly visits.
I would be able to tell you that in about 3 to 6 months.

I regard these issues you have about secret societies infiltrating the church. To be something which would sway me in recommending that you do not. This because of the fact that all priest are human and imperfect. You could as a reuslt behave like some kind of Inquisitor in that environment (its possible you are doing this because you want to go on a witch-hunt).

Again "Truth" I do not know you well enough to base a clinical response to you query so what is presented in the last paragraph is honestly supposition. You could make a really good priest, but you have to realize that people of your age. Often get involved in professions with all sorts of misunderstandings as to what those professions entail.

This is simply not the right environment for me to render such a judgement. About your ability to handle stresses such as a priest is required to manage. Again truth this is no different than your claims about the mentally ill and the retarded.

But this be certain, be prepared to submit to regular MRI's and EEG scans.

So let it be done


See Attached

Link to site





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