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Iraq Invasion: Where would the U.S. be if it never happened?

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posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by TheoOne
 


Some joker on the street told me they are actually "liberating" iraq, so nuking it would be a bit an own goal.




posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
yeah saddam made quite a good ammount of cash from private oil fields

i dont see hows that diffrent from bush ,

look at what your own goverment does to its citicents before even aguing about the state iraq was in ,

i hear of things in the us as following :

detiriorated school system
unemployment
poverty
personal rights take away from you
facist like police state measures
fraudulent voteing systems
forced vaccination
prisotorial system not functioning
the list could go on about a corrupt goverment gone hey wire


[edit on 12-1-2008 by zerbot565]



I don't know what US you are taiking about,but it dosen't seem to be the one I'm living in. The people who usually write this crap about the US are either living in another country and don't know crap about living here and get caught up in anti US propaganda or are backwoods nitwit's living in their own little conspiracy dream in the US.

There were no lies about Iraq. Bush recieved the same intelligence that Clinton (who bombed Iraq) did and most of the western world did. The congress and senate voted for the war with the same intelligence that Bush and the western world saw. If he lied then there must be an awful lot of gullible people in the world and US government. Iraq also broke the treaty it signed after the gulf war with the US. Also there are an awful lot of Iraqi citizens that have stepped forward to talk about torture Saddam did to the Iraqi's.



[edit on 14-1-2008 by steve99]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Rilence
I would have thought the US would be at least $500 billion USD better off


Yeah good point.

Not only would we be more secure, we'd also be quite a bit richer.

For the price of the Iraq War we could have sent humans to Mars already - four times over!

Let alone putting who knows how many kids through college - now that's an investment that would pay off in the long run, unlike our Gulf quagmire.

[edit on 1/14/08 by xmotex]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by steve99
 


Wow..

You think voting is "real" in the US (watch: Hacking Democracy)

You think the US education system is working?

You do not recognize the incredible abuse of and expansion of police powers? (Have not been to an airport in 8 years eh?)

You do not realize that there are major parts of our country that are no better than any 3rd world country? (Detroit, New Orleans, etc etc)

What America are you living in? I would like to think like you and believe that even though where I live is not so bad everywhere else must be the same or better. That is simply not the case. Everything you said, including the name calling, leads me to believe that you are an extreme victim of propaganda.

My advice: Turn off the Sean Hannity and open your eyes.





posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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I wonder how Iraq would be, that was one of the most affluent progressive middle eastern nations 20-30 years ago. I wonder how they would be if not for the uk dividing their land to cause later wars , how they would be without sanctions that caused so many deaths, without american lies of wmd's to gain control of their oil , I don't care about america so i shouldn't really reply, it is your victims i have sympathy for.

You ruined that country, killed and displaced over a million, who knows how many more with depleted uranium over the years , and all for your greed . But you won't care , they are just muslims aren't they , and you got to fill your 4 litre up haven't you. You are a disgrace to humanity .



[edit on 14-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by steve99
 


Wow..

You think voting is "real" in the US (watch: Hacking Democracy)

You think the US education system is working?

You do not recognize the incredible abuse of and expansion of police powers? (Have not been to an airport in 8 years eh?)

You do not realize that there are major parts of our country that are no better than any 3rd world country? (Detroit, New Orleans, etc etc)

What America are you living in? I would like to think like you and believe that even though where I live is not so bad everywhere else must be the same or better. That is simply not the case. Everything you said, including the name calling, leads me to believe that you are an extreme victim of propaganda.

My advice: Turn off the Sean Hannity and open your eyes.





So what I read and watch is propoganda and what you read and watch is the right way to think. Am I getting that right. One mans propaganda is anothers belief. I have been to the airport many time and do not see anything wrong with the security in place. Unfortunatly you are correct about the cities you named, but that is not the governments fault. The people need to straighten their selves out. If you want to live in a nanny country where they hold your hand all the time try France. You can go live in their country and they will take care of you. As for the schools, there are good and bad, they all can't be good. In the area I live in the schools are the best.

[edit on 15-1-2008 by steve99]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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They'll still be bombing iraq, like they did between the wars. Saddam would be still the monster, in the eyes of the world. It would be just more of the same, without usa playing the role of world police, and the bush family making loads of money(and do not say the bush family were so rich this is not about money).



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by steve99
 


Actually I think you are the one voting for the nanny country buddy. I actually would like to see the role of government reduced to nearly nil, just find my other threads.

The Welfare State (Nanny State) is the apparatus that creates aggressive wars, centralizes the department of education, uses a Central Banking System that destroys local economies, negotiates destructive trade deals that cause outsourcing, and ultimately deposits the power of the Nation into the Hands of Corporations.

So if you want to live in a Corpratist Police state why don't YOU MOVE to the UK or France where they seem to enjoy that crap and leave America to the folks who want to be free and who know what freedom is. Do not destroy my freedom because you so poorly value your own, there are plenty of countries to choose instead of continuing the ruination of this formerly great one.

As far as propaganda goes, I did not say that "what you listen to is propaganda", I said that Sean Hannity is a Propagandist. To deny that is to think that Goebells was "Fair and Balanced".

Read some Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin. Also Ron Pauls many numerous newsletters and addresses to Congress. Maybe you can learn what it is to be an American and understand that ALL MEN ARE FREE regardless of what flag they hapen to be subjugated to.

You are no American or Patriot sir, that stops when you decide that others know less than you how they should live their lives or whether or not they should be free in a foreign country to live without our troops in their streets.


[edit on 15-1-2008 by Tinhatman]



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by steve99
 


Actually I think you are the one voting for the nanny country buddy. I actually would like to see the role of government reduced to nearly nil, just find my other threads.

The Welfare State (Nanny State) is the apparatus that creates aggressive wars, centralizes the department of education, uses a Central Banking System that destroys local economies, negotiates destructive trade deals that cause outsourcing, and ultimately deposits the power of the Nation into the Hands of Corporations.

So if you want to live in a Corpratist Police state why don't YOU MOVE to the UK or France where they seem to enjoy that crap and leave America to the folks who want to be free and who know what freedom is. Do not destroy my freedom because you so poorly value your own, there are plenty of countries to choose instead of continuing the ruination of this formerly great one.

As far as propaganda goes, I did not say that "what you listen to is propaganda", I said that Sean Hannity is a Propagandist. To deny that is to think that Goebells was "Fair and Balanced".

Read some Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin. Also Ron Pauls many numerous newsletters and addresses to Congress. Maybe you can learn what it is to be an American and understand that ALL MEN ARE FREE regardless of what flag they hapen to be subjugated to.

You are no American or Patriot sir, that stops when you decide that others know less than you how they should live their lives or whether or not they should be free in a foreign country to live without our troops in their streets.


[edit on 15-1-2008 by Tinhatman]



I don't think I want a nanny state, I too would like a smaller government, less taxes, strong military.
I have read Washington, Jefferson and Franklin. I have studied the constitution and the declaration of independence.
And I usually don't see troops in the streets where I live, I don't know what state you live in, but where I live there aren't military troops. And you also have to know we are at war, this country was attacked and troops and police are needed in certain circumstances. But the attack and war part are probably just big conspiracies to you.

I also see you are from Orlando Fla. and I guess you get most of your ideas from some of the people that roam around the main attraction in your area.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by steve99]



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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Nothing has been the same since we realized that the American military is full of quiters. The Military are cowards, the lot of them. Not a leader amungst them. Subserviant sheep. Your government can control you easily, because the American military has turned into a bunch of cowards. Fearful, obese excuses for free men and women that don't have the guts to protect themselves and the people around them. Irresponsible, selfish ingrates..all of them.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Nferno666
Nothing has been the same since we realized that the American military is full of quiters. The Military are cowards, the lot of them. Not a leader amungst them. Subserviant sheep. Your government can control you easily, because the American military has turned into a bunch of cowards. Fearful, obese excuses for free men and women that don't have the guts to protect themselves and the people around them. Irresponsible, selfish ingrates..all of them.




So what great country are you from. I don't think you have the nerve to say that to some military personal faces. Typical internet tough guy.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by steve99]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by steve99
 


We are at war because we started a war. If you've read Washington, Franklin, etc. you already know why the idea of Empire, Foreign Adventurism, Wars of Aggression are bad ideas. I assume you have also heard the saying "He who gives up freedom for security deserves neither".

Oh, and I did not say anything about troops here. I said our troops in foreign countries. It's one thing to defend yourself against attack like in WW2, it's another thing to just choose some po-dunk country and bomb the # out of them because we need access to their oil fields and a nice base to launch later attacks against other po-dunk coutnries.

Do you think there were Germans in the late 1930's saying, "Oh, we are at war. We need these SS and concentration camps."

The war in Iraq is a fraud and was started because of lies, the same lies the Clintons were telling and the Bush before them too.

Dude seriously. Put down the Miller High Life, turn off Sean Hannity, stop polishing your SUV/Pick-up truck/Mustang and pay attention!! How are you going to get smaller government and less taxes if you are supporting war spending in the TRILLIONS (which in turn is creating more National debt and inflation), supporting the expansion of Government programs because "We are at War" and need increased security (increasing the size of government), and infringing upon the Constitutional Rights of the People.

This War is a Fraud just like the War on Drugs, the War on Communism, the War on Cancer, etc etc. It's about creating problems and then Expanding Government to "Fix" them.

Empire creates the Welfare State. You begging for more security creates more security by making the State powerful enough to "protect us". So again, please.. Move to some foreign country where they already think it is a good idea to be spied on all day, to have a "safety net", maybe some Gun Control on top for good measure eh? Gotta be safe right?




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