Citibank tell it's card members what they can buy and not

i was hoping after reading this thread over 3 times, and then thinking about it for 15 minutes I would have something to say.

Instead, I'm completely speechless.

Wells Fargo is doing the same thing.
I had them on one phone, and Adobe on another phone (one in each ear) and I was trying to make a purchase on the internet to buy some new software. The cost was nearly 2,000 USD. (overy priced, yes I know)..

The reason I had them both on the phone was because when I went to purchase the "software" on line on the Adobe.com website, my bank, at the time "Wells Fargo" had a fraud computer system call me (automated) and tell me they denied me from purchasing the "software" cause they thought it was a fraudulent charge.

So, after trying more than a few times, I finally got on the phone with the fraud department and told them that it wasn't fraud and that they'd better make due on my transaction... they said no problem and that it won't happen again.......... But yet, it did, again!

So, that's when I called Adobe Sales Team, and then called Wells Fargo Fraud Department, I told Adobe my account info to purchase the product (credit card) and told Wells Fargo the transaction was going through, they said they would accept it... (as if it's their rights to let me spend my money the way I want to)... then the other line beeps and it's the Fraud Department at the Bank with their stupid automated system telling me they didn't allow the charge to go through, cause they thought it was fraud.
.............................................. (WTF?)

So, yes, I can understand the issue with Banks allowing or rather NOT ALLOWING their customers to buy what the customers want.

It's a shame, I pulled my funds from Wells Fargo that day, explained to them the issue, and they pretty much flung their hair over their shoulders and said goodbye with their backs to me. Then they called me a week later trying to get me to come back as they couldn't figure out why I just up and left.
.............................................. (again... WTF?)


[edit on 8-1-2008 by WalkOn]

Originally posted by WalkOn
It's a shame, I pulled my funds from Wells Fargo that day, explained to them the issue, and they pretty much flung their hair over their shoulders and said goodbye with their backs to me.

that's the real shame. they have gotten so massive, that it really doesn't matter anymore. At this point, banks are just operating to maintain the illusion that money is worth something anyways. I can only imagine the cashless society that is coming.

To be accurate though, we are already cashless. All the money in your paycheck is just a digital numeric value, until you show that value to a bank, and they spit it out for you to use, where another business will just turn that paper back into a digital numeric value again.

I say to everyone cut up those Citibank cards and get the word out to your friends & family that CITIBANK is an ENEMY of the FREE Peoples of the EARTH and should be treated as such.

It Appears PAYPAL also has issues with GUNS, Porn & Gambling as well. I've been using Paypal for 7 years, but I can tell you as soon as there is an equivalent as popular with others I will no longer support that company.

Corporations have been destroying the American Way by using Lobbyist it's time we fight back by (Search) identifying Enemy Corporations and discontinue to support by not using them and dumping their stocks. (Destroy the enemies)



[edit on 8-1-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I truly never thought it would come to this type of blatancy. Seeing is believing and a blinding flash came before my eyes on this forums efficacy. Seek and destroy like a hellfire missile. I guarantee you doughnut hole to doughnuts enough people see this corporate ignorance and act upon it their competition will begin to see it pays to make nicey with their customers. This was a newsletter Citipimps will rue the day. Good luck with that you saudi chimps.

Now that our economy is showing its ugly face so the faces of all the foreign investments will show their ugly face also to influence our policies.

America now has the economic profile of a third world country and is inexorably heading toward colonial status due to excessive foreign ownership of U.S. assets.

www.economyincrisis.org...

The way American is going, in another generation all American assets will belong to Indians, Arabs and Chinese.

BTW this no a joke

I am a little confused by the two links in the OP.

This one

www.nssf.org...

makes it sound as if no transactions period will be made for firearms.

But this letter says that it is for online across state line sales which is supposed to be a federal law not to do. If this is the case then maybe they are protecting themselves from liability if the weapon was used in a murder or something.

Is anyone else seeing the conflict or is there another link I should read to clarify things.

Edit to add link to the letter

www.nssf.org...

[edit on 8-1-2008 by interestedalways]

Now that would be a different matter entirely. Perhaps Citibank isn't the new corporate satan.

reply to post by jpm1602


Do not be blinded by their trickery. The banks have long lobbied for for certain laws then after being part of creating such laws they switch the blame and justify their actions by redirecting the attack against an unknown enemy or one in which we seemingly can do nothing about. This is precisely the way the corporations have begun to take control of our world. They lobby governments to make laws & then they use the laws in which they created to justify their actions against the free peoples.

The Corporate culture in our would has become a culture in which they redirect the blame in an endless loop until such point you give up or enough time has past that they have achieved their goals and move on to the next attack point.

Ever try to call customer service with Big corporations these days only to go in an endless loops of them blaming other departments & transferring you in circles, citing policy's of those who are never available or software or computer system that were somehow mysteriously programed that way and so nothing can be done as they shift the blame to the point you don't care any more & just go away?

It is there game and it's time we stand up and expose them before they censor us completely out of existence.

We have the power, but only up until the point that our communications among ourselves are cut off, by laws that will somehow protect us from bad people among ourselves (lies) or created disasters to bring their illusions further along to the already weak and brainwashed amongst us.

It is our job to educate our brothers around the planet about the Evil corporations around the world that are making money off our lives while giving us nothing in return, and making more off our slaughter when we start exposing them for what they really are and where they really stand. They are bloodthirsty beasts that must be recognized and strangled to their deaths or we will all die and they will began again from scratch with a new population.



[edit on 9-1-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by interestedalways
But this letter says that it is for online across state line sales which is supposed to be a federal law not to do. If this is the case then maybe they are protecting themselves from liability if the weapon was used in a murder or something.

Is anyone else seeing the conflict or is there another link I should read to clarify things.

As in many of the threads here, folks are not reading this clearly and making a knee-jerk reaction to the possibility that their rights to buy guns may be impaired. The reality of the situation is apparent to those that read the letter thoroughly looking for the reasons, rather then jumping on the gun rights bandwagon. They are denying service because the company was engaging in third party, non-face-to-face gun sales, across state lines, using credit cards for the transactions. The card company has the right to defend itself from those who would use them as a payment method to illicitly receive firearms, which might be used in a manner that they would be civilly responsible for. For example selling to a minor, or a person who is legally banned from gun ownership.

You caught it though, star to you…

[edit on 1/9/2008 by defcon5]

Well I agree with you all, but most huge banking firms are doing this now. PNC Bank did the same to me recently and I got my money out of there immediately. I use a small, local bank now, but I will remove my money from there soon enough. It isn't the banks as much as the creditors who are censoring our purchases.

VISA, Mastercard, etc. are he culprits. They are heavily influenced if not subsidized by the gov't. This is all more of an illegal ploy towards a police state. I hate conspiracy, but when they take our guns, they take our ability to fight back when the time comes. That scares me. Our greatest right is that of a militia, and I for one, will not let this country become overtaken by those who have special interests.

I don't believe in guns, they kill people. They are dangerous. But the fact is, our right is there simply to fight against those who might oppress us, nothing else.

This summer, just before the start of the season, American Express announced that it wouldn't allow its card used in the two most famous strip clubs of Copenhagen. Well, there are hundreds of other much shadier clubs, where the tourist has to go if they want that kind of entertainment, of which the prudish card company does not know ...yet.

I have had the same experience --not with a strip club-- but with a low budget airlines in SE Asia. They only book online, but my visa-card was turned down, when I tried to purchase a ticket.

Same with a Russian site where I used to purchase music, had done it a dozen times before without any problems. Suddenly, coinciding with another debate about royalties and pirating, my card was declined.

In that way the card companies can control who stay in business and who does not.

We were Patriots

They made us strong by removing our common rights to liberty, but our souls were kindled through the unjustice of tyranny, and a fire was blazing, We were Patriots. They came to our houses with threats to our families, they tried to remove arms from the public, when they took our friends and neighbors with false reproaches, we stood up, because We were Patriots. When our children were murdered for not doing as they said, when they had complete control of every aspect of our lives, we did not turn our cheeks in fear, because We were Patriots. The government stripped our personal freedoms, and we stood up, we were counted by God in the pursuit of Liberty, We believed in eachother, and We were Patriots. When we took strength and united as a free people in the fury of the storm, even at the cost of the blood of our fathers and sons, We were Patriots. What is the price of freedom and liberty? How long will America sleep? As our founding fathers shed their blood to protect our rights, we now are willing to give them up, back then We were Patriots. I love this nation which I call home, a militia was formed and did roam, in America's dream they raised their hands, voluntarily, and We were Patriots.

I truly believe in all my heart, the freedom our civil constitution represents, is worth defending at any price, even with the blood of patriots. It is our duty to defend freedom from tyranny, to protect our brothers and sisters, neighbors and family, receiving risk even at the cost of lives, as so many of our colonialists gave of themselves, they purchased freedom with their blood so that you could taste liberty, only to now turn our cheeks as we toil in the same dangers of the past. Enlighten us that we may realize freedom as our founding fathers had. Rest in justice that this struggle may rejoin the hearts of patriots to the true meaning of our identity as Americans, that we may not fall victim to the false designing of men nor the surrender of liberty.

I for one would rather risk it all, let them hear me, I will never cease to speak out against those who wish to trample what colonialists died for. Look inside yourselves, there is a heart beating for the sound of freedom and liberty, not the beat of tyranny. If you love wealth more then you love liberty then sit down, if you prefer the chains of totalitarianism over the natural rights of free men then please, sit down. If you wish to give up your right to life, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness given to all men from The Almighty God then please, sit down. If you wish to choose the course of vain and aspiring men then please, sit down. But if you believe in freedom of writing, freedom of speech, or thinking, stand up and shout, shout that we cannot choose just one but the inalienable right to all must be protected. No such thing ever existed before the American Revolution of free men. Accuse me of repression, stand a far, turn your head away, as if you are safer by ignoring despotism but Liberty and Freedom will always triumph if the hearts and minds of mans desire to be free people and a free nation.

May God Bless you all in the name of Freedom and Liberty. Never fear to hold government accountable, they are accountible to us, not us to them. When freedom is taken for granted, unchecked, it can be conquered. How blessed we have been as Americans, To live in peace and prosperity, in the home of the brave and the land of the free. So now it's your turn to do your part, to understand and to take this to heart. Be our flag, Old Glory, a light in the dark alleys of dishonest men. Justice, tempered with mercy is what lives in the American Hearts and Minds, Let us be a sign to the eyes of men, so in the future that we may once again take back our freedoms. Remember, hold these things to be self evident, to avoid the greatest cost, our souls, our life, our liberty.

God Bless you all, and God Bless America.


[edit on 9-1-2008 by libertytoall]

is this even legal?????

i mean i know they put a lot of crap in that small print,,but----does it say this anywhere,,,,proir to you signing the contract?????


soon,,you won't be able to buy a gun with cash----you'll have to purchase a permit, or credit to get one----this will probably cost a few hundred bv4 you even go to the gun shop

man---u can do this, ucan't do that--------they needto erase or remove the part "land of the free"

maybe someone sued them, holding them responsible for a wrongful death---or they're preparing that---or are they just force feeding their views on us???

Since when is it illegal to purchase firearms across state lines? I just purchased a Robinson Arms XCR assault rifle from a shop in Ohio with my PayPal debit card. To be legal you just have to have it transferred to a FFL (Federal Firearms License) holder in your area. I don't think there are any reputable shops that would even complete payment on a sale without having the FFL information for your local dealer already. Someone mentioned that PayPal prohibits firearms purchases, but I guess they missed mine (or have they?).

As a gun-guy it upsets me Citi would do this but I have to say that Citi is a private entity and they can refuse service to anyone for any reason and shape their policies anyway they want to. If Citi wants to alienate any and all firearms customers that's their problem.

So the more than 4 million NRA members won't be doing business with Citi as well as the millions more who are not NRA members.

eBay did a similar thing over the Summer. And if I'm not mistaken another baking/credit company did the same as well but it only lasted a few weeks as all of the gun-people pulling their accounts freaked them out.

Even in a cashless society, as long as there is money to be made, there will be an option for gun-people. Of course being cashless that option would most likely be tied to all sorts of federal monitoring and some sort of insane interest rate making gun ownership available only to the super-wealthy but that when the millions of us load the firearms we've always had and set things right.

It doesn't seem to me that Citibank is against what folks do with their own money. It only seems that Citibank is overhauling their processes to comply with state and federal laws. The last thing I am is an apologist for the banks but I can understand the reactions some of you have had, and even the conspiracy speculation, it's just on that on the face of that letter featured in the OP, it's about compliance with laws and not the denial of individual rights. There's nothing stopping anybody from using their Citibank credit cards to make gun purchases and special-order gun purchases through their local gun shops is there? The people who are really getting screwed are the online gun shops and sporting goods stores. They're going to lose a portion of their revenue and competitive edge. Still, the upside is that it should be good for local gun retailers, as they should see an increase in business. So it's not all bad.

Did not one person read CitiBanks letter to the firearms dealer?

If you actually INVESTIGATED the WHOLE STORY, you would see that the author of the story SPUN the story.

The actual letter from Citi and the CC processor to the merchant SPECIFICALLY stated that the reason for shutting down the account was the non face to face sales of firearms violated the Gun Control act.

NOWHERE except in the authors version of the story does it say Citi is now banning all transactions for firearms.

Am I the only person who actually READ the letter???

The letter I read said that Citibank was refusing involve itself in illegal arms sales. The vendor is selling guns online, across state lines without any mechanism for identity verification.

The only thing I see here is a corporation's refusal to bank a transaction it believes violates federal law:

Keep in mind that a violation of the Gun Control Act occurs when a gun offered online is sold to an individual in another state; the act prohibits selling a handgun to a resident of another state.

I completely understand their argument. You shouldn't be asking a company to help people break the law---especially when ATS'ers wail about corporate responsibility.


.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


I don't get what's illegal about buying a firearm out of state not face to face. The only caveat is that the transfer must take place between two FFLers. I can buy any firearm I want from wherever I want without showing my face. It gets shipped to a local FFL and then transfered to me.

It's not illegal.