Saddam Hussein started using chemical weapons against his people who lived in his own country. Then
Not so much later invaded Kuwait. This caused great concern about his intentions with relation to that country as well as Saudi Arabia. As a result Saudi Arabia asked the US for help and the resultant effect was known as Desert Storm . If what the Saudis feared had occured, Saddam Hussein would now control most of the worlds oil reserves (and that would be a problem).

Saddam Hussein also at that time had American hostages (remember the boy which sat on his lap). The conclusion at the time was that this man was capable of killing anyone to achieve his goal. And that goal was to control world oil.

The question today is if Saddam Hussein does have WMD could he launch a preemptive strike against the same interest and take control. The US as well as the UK, feels that this is possible that is despite the fact that the rest of the world is not so certain. They cite his prior behavior as motivation to believe that if he could get away with it he would. The Saudis claim that they can deal with the problem. But with a majority of the people involved in the 911 event being Saudi citizens. Itís very possible that if the Iraqi army entered into Saudi Arabia there could be a coup de tat.

In this situation, a response whose conclusion results in the replacement of the Iraqi regime seems reasonable. One thing to take into consideration is that its not just about gasoline its also about heating oil, plastics, access to sophisticated technology. As well as a complete change, in that theater of operations. And it all hinges on whether or not this man will wake up one night and decide to launch an offensive.

How would Israel react to the idea that Saddam Hussein now had control of technology the US has given the Saudis (which as far as I know can match the Israelis to a considerable degree). In relation to this take into consideration that during Desert Storm, several Scud missiles were fired at Israel.

What are your thoughts?

Toltec,

1/Saddam Hussein started using chemical weapons against his people who lived in his own country.

The ingredients were suppied by the US and other western countries.

2/. As a result Saudi Arabia asked the US for help

Where did you find that?

3/Saddam Hussein also at that time had American hostages (remember the boy which sat on his lap).

The boy was british.

From then on you say why it is justifiable for the US to invade Iraq.Come on!!!

If I give you a gun John to protect yourself and you kill your brother. Because you think he is doing something to you, is that my fault as well.

As far as the rest of your rant JB as far as I know the child was American but that does not make a difference. And that Saudi Arabia is not at present offering bases makes it clear that then they asked for help.

As far as the rest of the post am not surprised you did not respond

Well, my (American Butt) feelings are simple. If we are to be the worlds house cleaning service, we should be paid well to do that job and not have to pay :-).

If our gov does take action against Saddam Hussein I beleive that will be the onset of WWIII because to many people are sick of what most of us Americans are sick of also. "OUR GOV"

The Gov has cheated, lied to, swindled, covered up to many times. I don't trust them and I sure don't trust the motives of the American Gov. What is needed is for the United Nations to be the power of the world. Not the United States. We should just be a part of that power. I just feel like the UN has no back bone.

Ok, so if we ""let"" old George W Bush start WWIII then let's "make" him do the job the right way. Nuke Saddam Hussein and Nuke who ever opens there big mouth about it also. If Russia says you can't do that, Nuke them also. And well we are Busy Nuking, let nuke Iran and a few other ass hole country's also. Once and for all lets get take out ALL the trouble makers. But let's nuke DC first because the American Gov and the American People are not the same voice and that my friends is NOT what this country was to end up like. We got a HUGE f--king problem!!!!. I think we need to do what the Iraq people need to do and that is clean our own house first. (O-Yes- Nukes will kill us all I am being somewhat sarcastic here ) (WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones)

PS. I reserve the right to be wrong. I am more interested in "Space ships" :-)


[Edited on 29-11-2002 by Skeptical Believer]

[Edited on 29-11-2002 by Skeptical Believer]

Originally posted by Skeptical Believer
Well, my (American Butt) feelings are simple. If we are to be the worlds house cleaning service, we should be paid well to do that job and not have to pay :-).

If our gov does take action against Saddam Hussein I beleive that will be the onset of WWIII because to many people are sick of what most of us Americans are sick of also. "OUR GOV"

The Gov has cheated, lied to, swindled, covered up to many times. I don't trust them and I sure don't trust the motives of the American Gov. What is needed is for the United Nations to be the power of the world. Not the United States. We should just be a part of that power. I just feel like the UN has no back bone.

Ok, so if we ""let"" old George W Bush start WWIII then let's "make" him do the job the right way. Nuke Saddam Hussein and Nuke who ever opens there big mouth about it also. If Russia says you can't do that, Nuke them also. And well we are Busy Nuking, let nuke Iran and a few other ass hole country's also. Once and for all lets get take out ALL the trouble makers. But let's nuke DC first because the American Gov and the American People are not the same voice and that my friends is NOT what this country was to end up like. We got a HUGE f--king problem!!!!. I think we need to do what the Iraq people need to do and that is clean our own house first.

PS. I reserve the right to be wrong. I am more interested in "Space ships" :-)


[Edited on 29-11-2002 by Skeptical Believer]

You are the perfect example of an ignorant American. Everybody hates the gov? WTF are you talking about, I along with many other American's am perfectly happy with the American Gov. Nuke everyone? What the hell would that do for the world? We'd end up killing ourselves by nuking everyone; you really need to think before you post.

A= I do think before I post :-)

B= Your right, Nuking will kill us all. That was my point in my own little way.

C= It is not my fought I do not trust our Gov. My feelings are my feelings. They may not be facts,they are just feelings. But I do NOT stand alone.

D= I do not put people down to make my points, please fight with someone else, I am done.

E= I like space ships, not War. I like the truth, not cover ups. I like peace on earth but Iraq is and should NOT be my/our problem alone.


[Edited on 29-11-2002 by Skeptical Believer]

SB the idea of a full-scale nuclear war as a reuslt of this matter is secondary. There are several reasons for this and can go into detail. More importantly though a nuclear attack against the United States (rather the Western Hemisphere) would result in the destruction of what is currently the worlds only food supply.

You know those missiles we keep testing which are supposed to hit an ICBM with a conventional warhead. Convert the conventional warhead to an atomic one and the ICBM, which threatens the US, cannot make its way across the fireball. In this case it does not have to hit the ICBM just get in its way. In what can be called a Nuclear Shield any weapon trying to cross a threshold at a location either in the Atlantic, Pacific or the Poles can be deterred from reaching its objective. Yes it would reuslt in changes in our atmosphere but as a reuslt of this response our ICBMs would still be sitting in their silos.

As a reuslt of rather than firing a missile per ICBM a consistent barrage of such weapons would be fired nothing could get through.

Conceivably who could potentate such a threat?

1. Russia: not likely Russia in principal joined NATO, which is the organization, designed to deal with what was the Warsaw pact.

2.China: potentially this country has the potential to attach the US. But in the last 226 years it has been an ally more than an enemy . Remember the Flying tigers who did they help into power?

3. Iraq: Please do not make me laugh although it could pose an economic threat if she does what she wanted to do during the issues which brought about Desert Storm. As well a mini Nuclear was could result in relation to Israel and an Iraq which had taken control of Saudi Arabia.


4. Korea: Now here we have an interesting situation a reason for why North Korea held its own against the US was because of China, a country that at present. Is very supportive of Japan, which is the sworn enemy of North Korea. Nonetheless, Communist China would be hard pressed to deny assistance to the only other stable Communist nation in the world besides Cuba.

On the other hand the United States does supply China with a considerable percentage of its food. To be honest its a coin toss, but one which if China concluded to support a North Korean move. To attack US interests with nuclear weapons would result in the destruction of both countries (China as well as North Korea).

What are your thoughts?

Skeptical Believer, I wasn't attacking you in any way. I was pointing out that you were wrong on some of the information you provided and I gave you some pointers that you can apply in you future posts so people wont attack you. No hard feelings.

Skeptical, well said. You are a true patriot to America much like myself. You are completely right when you say America will not back down to these terrorists and dictators who threaten our freedom, we will be ready for whatever they bring. I think if we fight this war "in a smart manner" we can win it without too many casualties. We will not wait for another 9/11 like tragedy to occur again before we disarm Iraq.

TextREASONS FOR AN EMINENT WAR WITH IRAQ

First I wish to say how gratifying it has been to have the original post stimulate such a response, pro and con. I do believe that such discourse is helpful and neccessary to formulate a consensus.

Secondly, We must remember that some (much ?) of the members of this Web are non-U.S. Citizens, and that it would only be reasonable that these non-U.S. members may feel that our country (United States of America) is perhaps pulling several other countries into the confrontation with Iraq. This thesis has merit if the country we are talking about is one in which the U.S. has a major military presense, such as Turkey, Italy, or (to a lesser extent) Saudi Arabia. And these countries receive up-to-date intelligence briefings at the highest levels and make their deciisions based on that information. I have not included the U.K due to the fact that the U.S. & U.K. share much/most intelligence between governments.

It is highly probable that when hostilities begun, there will be only the U.S. & U.K. to bear the bulk of the air war and the ground war. It is also probable that these two theaters (Air & Ground) will be wide scale, intense and short. This will be for two reasons, First due to the greatly improved air munitions and communitions, including Stealth & electronic "masking" of all airplanes.
including helicopters; Second is the fact that there is much discension within the Iraqi general staff, and when hostilities begin it is not inconceviable that Saddam will be deposed by his own officers.

We must all remember that for all its failings, faults and errors, our country is a truely free and democratic country with an elected president, congress and a free court system.

Will the coming confrontation cause casualties, Yes, certainly. Will it be worth the price of these casualties ? Yes, most certainly. God bless our Flag, our Country, our Armed Forces and keep the United States as the beacon of freedom in a world of so much darkness.

Theodore L. Gieseking (USAFSS-SP)

Forget about what the newspapers are saying.

Our government want a war because:

1) Imperialism, expand the great US of A
2) Control over such a precious resource called OIL
3) Strategically control the MiddleEast and have more control posts over China, NKorea and Russia
4) Give the US economy a boost. With war there is destruction, after that there is reconstruction. History has show this many times.

Side effect: More people will hate US

G'Day Boyz. I speak for most Australians, that we are in this war against Terrorism with our allies! Were not a huge power like the US or Britain, but I'll tell you 1 think, You wouldn't want to be in a 1 on 1 fight with an Aussie beacause you would loose!
Iraq must be stopped at all costs, to set an example to the rest of the world that we, the free world stand together agains this Horrible Terror braught apon us.
Here in Sydney Australia, coming up to New Years Eve, people are detered in coming to the city were at least 1 million extra people will visit the CBD(Central Business District). It doesn't deter me, If I die then I'll die with my mates!!! No Terror scares me!
Merry Cristmas and a Happy New Year to all!!

REASONS FOR AN EMINENT WAR WITH IRAQ

We Americans sometimes forget the contribution that the Australians & New Zealanders have made in WW I, WW II, the Korean War and the U.N. Armed Interventions over the past 20 years. They have been invaluable.

While I was in Service I had an opportunity to serve along side an Australian Navy Detachment, a fine bunch of fellows, and sharing a common language is always helpful.

I truly hope & pray that an armed intervention against the Saddam regimie will not be required, But if it is, then I hope & pray that our Australian & New Zealand cousins will join us in the undertaking.

Pray for Peace; Prepare for War.

Theodore L. Gieseking (USAFSS-SP)