Life begins at Conception

Until the government gives a tax payer ID number out for every time you have sex and just pitch the ones that don't catch your just going to have to wait for birth to have the law on your side.

mikell

Ok I have read/scanned all the replies. A woman does have the "right" to murder her unborn child if she so wishes. God will ask her about it, perhaps soon. Just as a murderer makes the decision to murder his/her victim. Again God will have a say in that also, but as a human society we do stop murder when possible and "sometimes" actually punish it.

Calling an unborn baby a "fetus" makes women somehow feel better about murder. Life is Life. At conception, unless something happens, that single cell will become a human. "Something" can be natural or have an outside influence.

Who among us can "judge" whether an unborn child can have life? An innocent unborn child has the right to LIVE. More right that a woman has to stop something "inconvienient" however that child began.

All you "unchristians" see this as a "religious" issue. BS, its about mankinds basic GOD given right to LIVE.

History and God will judge the insanity of the murder of millions, just as they both judge the holocost as outright murder.

It is absolute maddness to think muder of an unborn child is somehow a "right"...........just as it was hitlers "right" to purify Germany.

God have mercy on you all....................

[edit on 12/10/0707 by astmonster]

I am not christian, therefore, the beliefs of christianity do not apply to my values and morals.

Plain and simple.

You say a woman does not have the right to choose what her body goes through.

I say a woman has every choice when the pregnancy was forced upon her or it will take her life.

You can judge me by your morals and beliefs, but remember, I can judge you by mine and I can gaurantee you that you will come up looking far worse than I will simply because I do not hold belief in a deity that slaughtered millions and had people hunted in his name.

As I said before. There is no right answer to this debate and there never will be. It is pointless to debate it. Accept that every woman has the right to choose and leave it at that. Pray for them if you will, but in the end, it is not your choice what other women do.

VV

Originally posted by ValhallasValkyrie
You say a woman does not have the right to choose what her body goes through.

That's different than what you said before.
You said that a woman can do what she wants with her own body.
The fact is that she's not aborting herself. She's not killng herself.
She's killing someone else. She's destroying someone else's body.

When she had sex she made her free-will choice. She already used her free choice, fully knowing that a child could be created. No one took away her right to choose to have sex. When she choose to have sex, then she choose what her body was to go through. So your statement is in error.

Just because someone may become physically uncomfortable (due to their own choice of having sex) doesn't mean that they have a right to kill someone else.

I say a woman has every choice when the pregnancy was forced upon her or it will take her life.

No one has a right to tell someone that they have to die for someone else, therefore a woman has a right to abortion to save her own life.

However, when a woman is pregnant due to rape ... why on earth would you wish to add murder to her list of problems that she is dealing with? That's insane. It is hard enough on a woman who has been raped to deal with that, but to add murdering her own child - that's just adding insult to injury.

I do not hold belief in a deity that slaughtered millions and had people hunted in his name.

You are judging God by the actions of those misguided people who claimed to be working for Him. God - and those people - are two totally different entities.

is no right answer to this debate and there never will be.

There is always a right answer. In the case of abortion the right answer is this - No abortion unless the life of the woman is in danger. Period. Anything else is murder and just adds the mental stress of murdering her child upon the woman.




[edit on 12/11/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by ValhallasValkyrie
I am not christian, therefore, the beliefs of christianity do not apply to my values and morals.
VV

Errr..........without God there are no values NOR morals. That is the very issue at heart here. Murder of the unborn.

Mankind has no capacity to judge itself. If one believes in darwinisim then one can not account for the trillion to one odds that would provide for "morals" that grew out of the accident of life.

It is the height of arrogance to believe that both life and a set of morals that kept that life from destroying itself many times over came by "accident".

Without God, Jesus, and the holy spirit, MAN would still be throwing live babies into the fires of baal. But then again, perhaps abortion is just using a different method.................

Life begins before formation. So you can say that life begins before life began. As two separate entities come together. Life had already been there.

reply to post by ValhallasValkyrie



not strictly true we do not allow PEOPLE the right (regardless of man or woman) to legally kill themselves

Anyway no one REALLY knows when life begins or ends.

To some life never ends but is merely transformed.

I don't begin to be so arrogant to claim I know a damn thing about anything., I simply have beliefs which are subject to change based on new information or experience. These beliefs aren't provable because I am very aware that my access to complete information is impossible to gain. We only see what we see. There is a grander scheme which I Believe we cannot even fathom.

What I do know is that to judge another human being who doesn't believe as you do is not the wisest thing to do.

No one likes the idea of abortion. It is not something easy or acceptable to our senses. But it isn't a big debate for people to go all out and make their life's work out of stopping it.

There are plenty of children who have been birthed who need your help so help them, please.

Originally posted by interestedalways
What I do know is that to judge another human being who doesn't believe as you do is not the wisest thing to do.

Sure. But stating the fact that murder of an unborn child is just that ... murder ... isn't judging the soul of the person commiting the act. It is stating the truth .. that the PAINFUL murder of the innocent child is uncivilized.

BTW - Still waiting to hear from the previous poster - who needs evolving? The one trying to save the lives of the children, or the one who supports painfully ripping apart children and/or painfully burning them to death with chemical baths?

When does life begin? Conception? When the heart starts beating? When the brain starts functioning?

I think life began with the universe. Much as you put together lego blocks to create a larger and more complex form, we're basically the same.

The process to becoming a human is gradual. It's not a question for me whether or not a baby is alive. It's more of a question of "how alive" can something be before it's "wrong" to kill it. Heck, even a sperm is alive. A lower form of life for sure, but alive nonetheless.

Is the value of a life based on intelligence? Emotional attachment? Or the process by which a life was formed?

In the grand scheme of things, I don't really believe in right or wrong. For myself I just try to make decisions which lead to a more fulfilling existence. Sometimes decisions are tough, and you have to choose between one of two evils. In the end it doesn't matter as long as you do what you feel is right.

Personally, I would rather keep the child or give it up for adoption. I don't expect everyone else to feel the same though. Our life experiences are all different, and therefore our long-term fulfillment isn't always the same. Problem is everyone is trying to force everyone else to follow the same path.

Errr..........without God there are no values NOR morals. That is the very issue at heart here. Murder of the unborn.

Wrong.

I am not christian but I have very strict principles and morals. I follow the morals and principles of the Asatru and trust me, the christian god had nothing to do with them.

So try again on that one.

The fact is, a woman has the right to decide if she wants to carry a child. There is no birth control on the market that is 100% effective. So if a woman chooses to have sex and is on some form of birth control, she had already taken the measure to ensure that she not get pregnant. If that measure fails, it is not her fault or the man's fault. She still has the right to decide not to carry that child. End of story.

I already stated that I did not agree with women using abortion as birth control. So there is nothing for me to argue there. I argue that when the woman is not at fault or the woman's life is in danger or the baby will not survive... then abortion is a right.

And I find it extremely offensive that some of you would say a woman should be forced to carry a child from rape. Till you have been raped, do not think to make a judgement on that issue. None of you who have any idea what it is like and therefore, it makes you look ignorant to run off at the mouth.

VV

reply to post by astmonster


I believe that life begins at conception. It is one of God's miracles that he gives us.

reply to post by Mr Jackdaw




you re so right i couldnt of said it better my self.

i was going to right something very simular but you beat ,me to it.

Originally posted by ValhallasValkyrie

And I find it extremely offensive that some of you would say a woman should be forced to carry a child from rape. Till you have been raped, do not think to make a judgement on that issue. None of you who have any idea what it is like and therefore, it makes you look ignorant to run off at the mouth.

VV

So your personal hate for the man who raped you gets dumped on an unborn innocent. The thought of the seed of the one who violated you growing inside your womb is so offense you murder an unborn life to strike back. Is that a form of human sacrifice or just pure selfish evil?

The growing baby is completely innocent and half of YOU. That baby knows not how it was concieved, nor why it was punished. It only knows the horror of its own mother cutting it from the womb.

Why not wait til its 1 or even 5 years old? Then murder the child. The only difference is TIME.

The pictures of aborted babies should be played everyday on every channel.

I need not have murdered someone to know it is wrong. And don't think MEN can't be raped, they can. So that lame "youv'e never be raped" garbage doesn't fly either.

Originally posted by astmonster

Originally posted by ValhallasValkyrie

And I find it extremely offensive that some of you would say a woman should be forced to carry a child from rape. Till you have been raped, do not think to make a judgement on that issue. None of you who have any idea what it is like and therefore, it makes you look ignorant to run off at the mouth.

VV

So your personal hate for the man who raped you gets dumped on an unborn innocent. The thought of the seed of the one who violated you growing inside your womb is so offense you murder an unborn life to strike back. Is that a form of human sacrifice or just pure selfish evil?

The growing baby is completely innocent and half of YOU. That baby knows not how it was concieved, nor why it was punished. It only knows the horror of its own mother cutting it from the womb.

Why not wait til its 1 or even 5 years old? Then murder the child. The only difference is TIME.

The pictures of aborted babies should be played everyday on every channel.

I need not have murdered someone to know it is wrong. And don't think MEN can't be raped, they can. So that lame "youv'e never be raped" garbage doesn't fly either.

i think you are a very disrepectful person the poster that you quoted has obverly been raped.
and it is that womans choice if she wants to keep it.
im guessing you are either a man or some one with very low morals to right so agressivly to this person.
why dont you keep your views to yourself or express them more politly.


so to rant but there wa no need to be so offencive and corner someone like that.

If I must say, I was date-raped more than ONCE.....

Also, in one of my previous posts, you will read that I was FORCED into a relationship with a deputy sheriff.
He had a son OLDER than ME.
'Forced' as in Do it or get fired!
But, it was gradual, at first he JUST wanted to take pictures of me, with my clothes ON.

If I had become pregnant, I might have had an abortion.
I already had one around that time for another reason,
It wouldn't have changed anything for the dead baby, except D.N.A.

Could I have kept it? Yes.
It would be justice to kill the rapist(the guilty) not the baby!

Originally posted by kerrichin

i think you are a very disrepectful person the poster that you quoted has obverly been raped.
and it is that womans choice if she wants to keep it.
im guessing you are either a man or some one with very low morals to right so agressivly to this person.
why dont you keep your views to yourself or express them more politly.


so to rant but there wa no need to be so offencive and corner someone like that.

Rape is a horrid act and the rapist should be killed.........but not the innocent child. Life is a gift from God. Truth is not disrespectful, its just the truth.

Rape victims feel guilt and hate towards the rapist many times, however, a baby would remind the victim of the event. It becomes easy to get rid of the reminder, too easy.

Abortion is murder, rape is pure evil. Why murder the innocent? It is NOT the womans "choice" to keep the unborn, it is their "duty". It is a womans "choice" to cut her fingernails and choose a color she likes, or what dress to wear. It IS NOT HER CHOICE to murder her child.

Again, unborn or 5 years old, still her choice just time is the difference. he mother of "baby grace" in Houston Texas "chose" to murder her child. I hope she meets God soon.................

Remember Political Correctness is for those who fear the truth.........

reply to post by Clearskies



If this is your life, seek God, repent and find peace.............God Bless

Mod note: The topic is obviously contentious, to say the very least.

Subsequent posts have taken the issue into a different, but relevent, direction which is of an extremely personal and sensitive nature.

I am asking that future posters on this thread be courteous and respectful of each other.

Originally posted by astmonster

Abortion is murder, rape is pure evil. Why murder the innocent? It is NOT the womans "choice" to keep the unborn, it is their "duty". It is a womans "choice" to cut her fingernails and choose a color she likes, or what dress to wear. It IS NOT HER CHOICE to murder her child.

Well, thats one of the most singularly distasteful things I've ever read on the net.

Who the hell are you to criticise someone who has been raped? What gave you the moral highground to tell someone who has been violated in the most disrespectful manner what they should do? You write in the style of a petty dictator who doesn't know what they are talking about and has obviously never experienced the pain of being raped, or having someone in your family who has been raped, or even knowing someone who has been raped.

Heres a religious viepoint for you - in order for the woman to have been raped in the first place your god FAILED. He failed to protect the woman. He failed to direct the rapist on a more spiritually sound path that would have prevented the action from happening. Your "divine" entity who we are told is all seeing and loves us all equally made a complete and uter shambles of it all - and for what purpose? For its own sport? Remember, your entity is all-powerful - it doesn't have to let such things happen. In order for the woman to have been raped your entity was playing wicked spiteful power games with the womans life.

And then it sent you onto a message board to condem her, for added extra kicks.





[edit on 14/1207/07 by neformore]