4 shot outside church, police say

reply to post by moonbeam-maiden


From what I just heard....the church hired security due to many threats they were receiving. Probably due to the Haggard debacle.

The pastor had a plan in place, with security coming from within the church, not an outside company. At the time of the shooting there were 7000 people at the service (that would be enough for me to worship at home). The woman who was on security detail that day was one of the churchgoers. She also used her own firearm. This shows if there are more good guys with guns than bad guys with guns, the outcome is usually good. The fact that the gunman (23 year old) was killed is bad, but if there was no security, the death toll would have been more than the two girls in the parking lot. My prayers go out to the family of the young women, the security woman (who will have to live with this the rest of her life) and the entire church. As a old friend of mine would say : "Si vis pacem, para bellum" - - - -"If you seek peace, prepare for war"

Why in the world would a church need armed security in the first place? Sounds like people are going to church for other reasons besides spiritual guidance here. This is truly sad.

Cloakndagger -
I hate to say this, but in the times we live, isn't security (in all forms) necessary? We have fire exstinguishers in all public places, but we don't expect a fire. There are AED (automated electronic defibrilators) in most public areas (like every 100 feet in Chicago O'Hare airport), but we don't see people having heart attacks everywhere we go. Security, armed or unarmed, is just good planning. For a parish of 7000 people, that must be one large collection when they pass the basket around for the donations/tithe. When seconds count (as it did in this case), police are minutes away.

Okay, watching CNN, they've now officially confirmed that it was only ONE shooter. The motive has yet to be understood.

This shooting doesn't make any sense to me.

I just read an article suggesting that the Youth With A Mission (YWAM) group headquarters which is where the first shooting took place is a CIA front group involved in “espionage missionary work,” in developing nations.

Also of interest is that the alleged shooter, Matthew Murray, is the son of a prominent neurologist--a researcher on multiple sclerosis among other things.

Smells of some kind of MKULTRA-esque plan to me.

Full article here: www.blacklistednews.com...

Ya know, I don't mean this to sound tasteless but it sounds awfully similar to a church-yard gang shooter I had earlier today. Blew about 5 opposition gang members heads clean off then drove off to some other church back in the hood and done the same. I managed to reclaim Saints Row and everything so its all goood

Seriously though, you people talk about insanity viruses and religious issues, but what if it really is just some nutcase who's played a little too much GTA and gone on a rampage? Some people who are already mentally unstable may just get one too many ideas and go out and attempt to cause as much havoc as possible.

Maybe its a combo of both, or even all three. Either way, thats wot 'appens when you give people guns...

reply to post by ElectRon41

I just read an article suggesting that the Youth With A Mission (YWAM) group headquarters which is where the first shooting took place is a CIA front group involved in “espionage missionary work,” in developing nations.

Im sorry, but I find that hillarious. I have 2 aunts that have been with YWAM since its early days. Nothing they have done could have been related to the CIA.

Also, my parents ran a YWAM half way house type place for recovering drug addicts and runaways in Colorado Springs back in 1974.

Smells of some kind of MKULTRA-esque plan to me.

And not every shooting done in the states is related to the big bad government. There are screwed up people in this world who do horrible things - all on their own!






[edit on 10-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on 10-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by drunknmunky
Either way, thats wot 'appens when you give people guns...

The Holocaust: If any population of the Jews or any other group murdered by the Nazi's had guns, don't you think the death toll would be even remotely smaller?
Modern India: The "Untouchables" are considered to be the most vile and disgusting human beings to walk this Earth based few reasons. The Parents they are born under, and the job they do make them treated as if they were small bugs. Little power, crushed and exterminated on many occasions. Female "Untouchables" are creating small militias and arming themselves to protect themselves from rape and murder.
Civil Wars in Africa: The Rebels and other military groups would kidnap male children and train/force them to be in their forces and fight for their cause. The women of the estates were given guns. The kidnappings drastically came to a stop.
The United States Constitution: The second amendment states that the right to keep and bear arms is not to be infringed. There is a reason for that right. The Citizens of the United States are able to protect it from invading foreign powers if necessary. The Citizens of The United States can protect themselves and their rights against other peoples and most important, if it eventually comes down to it, a Tyrannical, Corrupt, or misleading Government.
Conclusion: Thats what happens when you give people guns.

Oh yeah, there's something funny about all this:


www.freerepublic.com...
(#884)"Another interesting piece of information: [daughter] has been doing bible study with a lady who is a police officer and a “sharp shooter.” Recently she felt led to contact the church and offer her services as a “security guard” because she felt that there was a risk of some looney doing something crazy. She was apparantely the one who killed the shooter."


a professionally trained shooter:

(#1732)"Ashley Gibbs was getting into a car with David Harris when they heard the gunshots — a sound like someone kicking ice from the side of a car, she said. Harris said he saw the gunman. "I was in the military for about three years, and the way he was holding the rifle looked just like the way we were taught to when I was in the military," he told NBC's "Today" show."


www.denverpost.com...
New Life senior pastor Brady Boyd said security at the church had been beefed up after the early morning shootings in Arvada, but he did not elaborate and did not take questions.

Yup, they knew something was coming.


www.denverpost.com...
Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said. Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon. "Give me your handgun. I've been in combat, and I'm going to take this guy out," Bourbonnais recalled telling the guard. "He kept yelling, 'Get behind me! Get behind me!' He wouldn't hand me his weapon, but he wouldn't do anything." There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn't fire, Bourbonnais said..... At about that moment, a female guard with a drawn handgun turned a corner and walked toward the gunman and yelled "Surrender!" Bourbonnais said. The gunman pointed a handgun at the woman and fired three shots, Bourbonnais said. She returned fire and just kept walking toward the gunman pressing off round after round. The female guard fired off about a dozen shots. ... The guard fired as many as six bullets into him, according to sources.



When a shotgun/assualt rifle goes up against a pistol, it is the pistol that usually loses. So why would the perp suddenly start firing with a pistol, which apparently jammed up after three shots. Maybe he heard a trigger word ('Surrender') and suddenly froze up.

Two male armed guards don't shoot at the perp and the perp doesn't shoot at them, leaving a female to grab the glory. Hmmm.....
[Somehow, I keep picturing that famous film of Lee Harvey Oswald being led out of the Dallas Jail doorway shortly before Ruby nails him.]

Also interesting that they served a search warrant at his house at the same time the guy started shooting. Which means they new his name, what he looked like, and probably what he was driving, at least an hour before the shooting. Gee, ya think they might have issued an all points bulletin or something like that? Don't bet on it.

And not every shooting done in the states is related to the big bad government. There are screwed up people in this world who do horrible things - all on their own!

Not every shooting has that feel that "something is just not right" either.

CNN is just reporting that the shooter took his own life. Which would certainly challenge the account of the security guard who says she shot him.

Another shooter with a history of taking "helpful drugs" prescribed by a medical professional. Another shooter who took mind altering medication, who has no military training, but is said by witnesses that he handled his weapon system in a way that was reminiscent of trained military personnel.

Sounds an awful lot like the shooting in the Mall earlier this week.

If you have family members on ADHD drugs or anti-depressants make sure the guns are out of the house. When I was 15 I was prescribed a series of anti-depressants and anti-psychotics in response to my reaction to a particularly stressful life situation and after 9 monthes I was having some serious Columbine-esgue daydreams (7 years before that horrible incident) and it worried me so much I stopped taking the meds, my doctor flipped and tried to have me committed to force them on me, the state said no because when I was in my 72 hour observation period they thought I seemed ok. I had been off the meds for almost 9 weeks at the point. After 3 monthes med free my mind cleared up, my anger subsided, and my horrible thought evaporated. The moral is

All of these shooters have had a history of medication.

Mass Pharma-Fedgov Black op to control the minds of Americas youth in my opinion.

My heart goes out to the victims of the families. I hope their God takes good care of them.

Answers and more questions from this update on the shootings

Looks like another victim of society story to me.