Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

reply to post by kangjia57


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[edit on 15-2-2008 by cybrseer]

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It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!" And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews!

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs --- and their Islam --- were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Jews have. And if you want to talk religion, fine. G-d GAVE the Land of Israel to the Jewish People. And G-d does nothing by accident!

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine."

One more thing. Very often one hears the revisionists and propagandists finding ancient historical links between the "Philistines" ("Invaders" in Hebrew) and the Arab "Palestinians." There is no truth to this claim! The Philistines were one of a number of Sea Peoples who reached the eastern Mediterranean region approximately 1250-1100 B.C.E. They were actually an amalgamation of various ethnic groups, primarily of Aegean and south-east European origin [Greece, Crete and Western Turkey] and they died out over 2500 years ago! Those Philistines were not Arab... and neither was Goliath! The Arabs of "Palestine" are just that... Arabs! And these Arabs of "Palestine" have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!

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The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 B.C.E. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century B.C.E. Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century C.E., over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive.

Even the word "Palestine" has no meaning in Arabic - every word in Arabic has some meaning deriving from the Koran, but the word "Palestine" does not. Even the term "Palestinian people" is rather ironic since the letter "P" is non-existent in the Arab language. If anything, the name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" [forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post] newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. The "Palestine Brigade Regiment" was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

The Land of Israel was never devoid of Jews, although at times she numbered only in the tens of thousands. This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return en masse to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s. The silly rhetoric about a massive Arab presence being overrun by "invading Jews" is quickly dispelled by Mark Twain, who visited the area in 1867. From his book, "The Innocents Abroad"... "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."

The Jews did not displace anyone, because very few of the people who were there actually owned the land. Most were absentee owners residing elsewhere. Another fact hardly mentioned by the "new historians" is that the arriving Jews never threw anyone off any land. All land was purchased legally from the original owners... whether they be from "Palestine" itself or elsewhere. Furthermore, top dollar was paid for this land which, in many cases, was uninhabited and hardly more than swamp land and rocky terrain. Only about 120,000 Arabs resided in an area that now comprises the State of Israel, Jordan and the so-called "West Bank" [Judea and Samaria] in between. By 1890, the number of Jews who had settled in Palestine reached 50,000 and, by 1907, numbered 100,000. In Jerusalem alone the Jews numbered more than 25,000, out of a total population in the city of only 40,000 Jews, Christians and Arabs. The Arabs did, however, constitute a majority over the sparsely populated countryside abutting Jerusalem.

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From 1888 until 1915 there were about six locust plagues that made the land nearly uninhabitable. In the 1915 locust plague alone some 40,000 people died and large numbers of Jews and Arabs left the land. Those that returned did not do so until about 1922 when the Zionist money to reclaim the land started coming in and a pipe line was laid. Then both Arabs and Jews started to come in in large numbers.

Palestine's early Jewish Zionists were idealistic pioneers who arrived in pre-state Israel with every intention of living in peace alongside their Arab neighbors and upgrading the quality of life for all of the land's inhabitants. These pre-Israel Zionists (and later, Israelis) had tried to develop peacefully for the dual benefit of Jews and Arabs in the land. But the Arab leadership always, starting in the earliest days, took the low road of insisting that the only solution was for the Jews to get out, even if that meant continued poverty and stagnation. When Arab demands were not met, they always resorted to violence.

The vast majority of Arabs came to the area after these early Zionist pioneers began draining the malaria-infested swamps (above photo) and plowing the land! In doing so, these Jews created the economic opportunities and medical availabilities which attracted Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away lands! In fact, over 90% of the Arabs migrated there within the last one hundred years. Most of the Arabs in "Palestine" were interlopers and squatters originating from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq and other lands who simply took possession of pieces of land. So much for their unfounded claims that they have been there since "time immemorial!" These Arabs came from disorganized collections of tribes with a tradition of constantly terrorizing each other and trying to seize land from their neighbors. Many of them were social outcasts and criminals who could not find jobs in their own countries so they searched for their luck elsewhere. Unfortunately, those Arab immigrants imported into the Holy Land their age-old culture of terrorizing neighbors in order to seize land. In fact, today's Arab "Palestinians", let by Arafat and his PLO (sanitized to the PA, or Palestinian Authority...which is nothing more than A Network of Murderers Masquerading As Government!) are still nothing more than street thugs, bullies and 'Little Saddams' found elsewhere throughout most of the most Arab world.

Yet while the returning Jews were highly motivated to restore the land, the Arabs seethed with envy and hatred for they lacked both the leadership to inspire and motivate them for they were, in fact, historical strangers to this land! Unlike the Jews, those Arabs who immigrated there had no ancient attachments to or historical memories of this homeland ... this ancient Land of the JEWS!

The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights. In their frustration they feel that the only hope and choice they have is to try and steal someone else's country!

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There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

Archeological sites to this very day continue to yield artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or Arabic text! The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this HISTORICAL HOGWASH about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned!

Double post, sorry!

[edit on 16-2-2008 by babloyi]

reply to post by cybrseer


Hey cyberseer! For an agnostic, you seem to make much of the jewish 'God-given right' to take over land in Palestine. You make use of a great deal of semantics, which is neither here nor there. For example, you say that Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. Yasser Arafat did not have Egyptian nationality. His parents were both Palestinian (or Gazan, if you dislike the term Palestinian). His only connection to Egypt was the fact that he was born there, and that his paternal grandmother was Egyptian.

You go into some detail about Jewish history in the region, which I certainly don't deny, and I don't think any basically educated muslim/arab/palestinian would deny. When you get to the 'Arab' part of your history, however:

Originally posted by cybrseer
It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there...

This is somewhat misleading, if not completely false. Arabs did not in any way 'uproot' any Jews, in fact, it was under the Arabs that for the first time in some 500 years the Jews were permitted to return to the area. And as for 'not forming any Arab nation', no idea what you mean by this. They installed a governor, they built infrastructure, etc. If again, playing with semantics, you mean to say that no separate arab nation, with an arab king, etc. was installed, then of course it wasn't! But then again, there was no such nation installed anywhere the Arabs went. It was all considered one contiguous Islamic nation.

I don't see how one can extract birth certificates from pottery and lineage. I'd much prefer 'legal' paper certificates, land deeds, etc, which Palestinians have, but are being ignored. I don't believe ancient history is a valid reason for claims of ownership. There are many alternate examples around the world where such claims would be considered absurd (Native americans, Australian aborigines, etc). There was a great number of Jewish people living peacefully in that area before the zionist movement. Nobody is denying this in the least. They had a valid reason to be living there. Their parents and grandparents, and their grandparents had been living there. They perhaps even had land deeds. Just like the Muslims and Christians who were there as well.

I don't know how old that article you pasted from is, but Arafat died a while back. Also, Palestine is called 'فلسطين' (phalasteen) by the Palestinians and other arabic speakers. I think you'll see that they do have an 'f' in arabic. And you'll see that no, the term 'palestinian' before the establishment of the state of Israel was used to refer to both 'Palestinian Arabs' as well as 'Palestinian Jews'- There was no discrimination on ethnic grounds. This is also backed up with how Britian used the term (all people born in, or legally residing in the area defined by the British Mandate of Palestine).

I don't know if you agree with me or not, but personally, I think the fact that almost 2000 years ago one's ancestors may have lived in a certain area does not give one the fundamental right to take back that area with no regards who is currently living there (and who's family has been living there for the past 1000 years). The Arab palestinians aren't using some imagined 'ancient historical ties' to validate their claims to that land (as you say). They're saying that they (or their families) had been living for generations.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by babloyi]

2000 years ago or last week-----what difference does that make if you are away from your home for whatever reason and then return to find out that squatters have moved in and claim its their house not yours ?

those that dont respect G-D's authority would say that the arabs have squatters rights .those that respect G-D's authority would read the contract that was made by G-D with abraham/isaac/jacob whose name was changed to israel/and his 13 sons to whom the land was to be divided among.

I will give to you and to your descendants after you,the land of your sojournings ,all the land of canaan,for an EVERLASTING(forever)possession;and I will be their G-D.(genesis 17:8)

the arabs descended from ishmael were sent away with abraham's other sons to live to the east of isaac who inherited the birthright blessing from father abraham.(genesis 25:5-6)

the same rule applies to the arabs as it did to the canaanites----they both worship foreign gods.you shall make no agreement with them or with their gods.they shall not live in your land,because they will make you sin against me.(exodus23:32-33)

the israelites have had 60 years to drive out the present inhabitants of the land and they are failing in this department which is causing problems for all of us.

if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you ,then it shall come about that those whom you let remain of them will become pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides ,and they shall trouble you in the land in which you live.and as I plan to do to them ,SO WILL I DO TO YOU.(numbers 33:55-56)

religious jews believe these words,secular jews do not----the country of israel is mostly secular and the government doesn't care ? what G-D says yet----therefore we have this ongoing strife and upheaval that will only get worse until Messiah comes and forces all of us to keep G-D's laws
please note:i didn't write the bible--just typed some of what's in there----i hate no one but i agree with what G-D says

Hell I can say the same about Jesus.

Originally posted by yahn goodey
2000 years ago or last week-----what difference does that make if you are away from your home for whatever reason and then return to find out that squatters have moved in and claim its their house not yours ?

If you think that is the correct way of thinking, I guess we should all move back to Africa, because that is 'our home' some hundred thousand years ago. Or we should move out of America. Or move out of Australia.

I'd hope that the world would have moved on from using stuff from an ancient book to claim divine right over an area where it is not even sure that they are ancestrally linked (all those jews were maternally linked to people who lived in that area? No, I don't think so), but I guess we're still a fairly backward people.

If people seriously use that book for validation for what they do, then I'm very scared. I mean, all those violences against the palestinians are then considered valid (what Joshua did, what Moses did against the Midanites, etc).

moses and joshua did what G-D told them to do---consequently their reward is eternal life when Messiah returns and resurrects the dead saints and prophets all the way back up to 6000 years ago.

Messiah came as a human 2000 years ago and died for the sins we commit----for those that accept His sacrifice--and strive to overcome the temptations to sin, that contract is just as valid now as then.G-D says He doesn't change(His mind).

john 1:1-12 shows that the G-D Being Yahvah that created the universe/the earth/and all life on it including us is the same One that came as the human Messiah/a jew the first time.

and there is salvation in no other name under heaven-----dont you want to get to live forever ?

the people that joshua annhilated were depraved/sex with mom dad kids inlaws outlaws and animals besides being brutal murderers including of their own babies to worship their satanic gods-----what the archaeologists have dug up reveals their goings on----- G-D is quite capable of raising the dead and healing their sick minds at a future date---about 1000 years from now according to book of revelation.

reply to post by babloyi

Hey cyberseer! For an agnostic, you seem to make much of the jewish 'God-given right' to take over land in Palestine.

Hey babloyi! Your response is very astute and refreshing. I actually lean very heavily towards being an athiest. The only reason I do not call myself an athiest is because I have not achieved omniscience. (and likely never will, but that won't stop me from trying).
I am a philosopher. I am a truth seeker.

I do not believe that Jews have any 'God-given rights', as I do not believe that any one has any "God-given rights'

In regards to Jews taking over land in Palestine, all history that I have researched, with the exception of those that hate Jews, clearly shows that Arabs took land from the Jews.

For example, you say that Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. Yasser Arafat did not have Egyptian nationality. His parents were both Palestinian (or Gazan, if you dislike the term Palestinian). His only connection to Egypt was the fact that he was born there, and that his paternal grandmother was Egyptian.

Perhaps this is a matter of semantics.
Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo Egypt. Egypt is a nation.
Palestine has never been the name of a nation or state.
The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact.

Arabs did not in any way 'uproot' any Jews, in fact, it was under the Arabs that for the first time in some 500 years the Jews were permitted to return to the area.

I am unable to find any legitimate historical data that backs up your claim.

Also, Palestine is called 'فلسطين' (phalasteen) by the Palestinians and other arabic speakers. I think you'll see that they do have an 'f' in arabic.

I said they don't have a ' P ' in arabic.
Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Israel after they conquered it. Which was intended to humiliate the Jews. Arabs decided to use the name Palestine as their own ancient and modern name, however, they had great difficulty pronouncing Palestine because arabic does not have a ' P ', so they turned the name Palastine into Falastin a purely fictional enity.

And you'll see that no, the term 'palestinian' before the establishment of the state of Israel was used to refer to both 'Palestinian Arabs' as well as 'Palestinian Jews'- There was no discrimination on ethnic grounds. This is also backed up with how Britian used the term (all people born in, or legally residing in the area defined by the British Mandate of Palestine)

This usage is in error and is one of the main reasons why the debate lingers on.
The word Palestine was invented by Rome, as a derogatory term for Israel
Palestine and Palestinians, refer only to Israel and the Jews. History clearly records that Arabs usurped the words Palestine and Palestinian.


I am not omniscient. I seek truth.

The above comments reflect my understanding of the research I have done. It is possible that my research and understanding is flawed, however, until greater wisdom and insight is bestowed upon me, I am forced to use the facilities within my present reach.

Cybrseer




[edit on 16-2-2008 by cybrseer]

reply to post by yahn goodey

Originally posted by yahn goodey
moses and joshua did what G-D told them to do---consequently their reward is eternal life when Messiah returns and resurrects the dead saints and prophets all the way back up to 6000 years ago.

What if someone takes it into their head that God is telling them to slaughter the Palestinians? After all, the situation could be considered similar. They think that the muslims believe in some 'Satanic moon god', and there are probably loads of weird stories about the 'evils' that they are committing. You yourself compared them to the Canaanites, who were slaughtered by the angel of God.


reply to post by cybrseer

Originally posted by cybrseer
In regards to Jews taking over land in Palestine, all history that I have researched, with the exception of those that hate Jews, clearly shows that Arabs took land from the Jews.

I usually find the best approach if one cannot find level-headed unbiased research on a topic is to study BOTH extremes and create an idea for oneself from that.

Originally posted by cybrseer
I am unable to find any legitimate historical data that backs up your claim.

Wikipedia has some information you might be interested in. I do not know if you believe that wikipedia has hatred for Jews, but the article has been extensively referenced. Perhaps you could point me in the way of whatever research it is that shows you that Arabs uprooted the Jews.

Originally posted by cybrseer
I said they don't have a ' P ' in arabic.
Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Israel after they conquered it. Which was intended to humiliate the Jews. Arabs decided to use the name Palestine as their own ancient and modern name, however, they had great difficulty pronouncing Palestine because arabic does not have a ' P ', so they turned the name Palastine into Falastin a purely fictional enity.

While I believe the history of the etymology of the name is relatively unimportant, I'd like to address some points. In arabic, the transliteration of words that start with 'P' in English is usually done with the letter for 'B'- hence the (slightly off-colour) joke 'Where should I 'bark'?
Anyhow, the Arabic name for Palestine was used from the 7th Century onwards, long before any idea to be 'creating a ancient history' for the the people of Palestine.

The reason I believe that the history of the etymology of the word 'Palestine' is unimportant, is because it is once again delving into semantics. It doesn't matter what reason the Romans had for calling that area Palestine, the fact is that they did, and the name stuck for some 2000 years- to the land as well as the people.

The fact of the matter is that there were people (Muslims, Christians as well as Jews) who called themselves (and were called by others) 'Palestinians', who lived in an area that they called (and was called by others) 'Palestine', who had been living there for generations upon generations, with land owned, connections made, etc. This is no 'modern political creation'.

reply to post by babloyi

Wikipedia has some information you might be interested in. I do not know if you believe that wikipedia has hatred for Jews, but the article has been extensively referenced. Perhaps you could point me in the way of whatever research it is that shows you that Arabs uprooted the Jews.

I do not use or trust Wikipedia for any serious research, as it is easily altered by anyone with an personal agenda.

Example: As I was reading your reply I went to Wikipedia and looked up the history of Palestine. While there I made an edit which I will change back later to prove my point of how unreliable Wikipedia is for accurate research. In the second paragraph where it used to say

'7th century CE. Similarity is apparent....'

I changed the text to read 8th century. I invite you to view this change I intend to change it back after your next reply.

en.wikipedia.org...

Some pages are locked, however, the average computer hacker hiding behind a proxy server can easily unlock these pages and alter them.

While I believe the history of the etymology of the name is relatively unimportant, I'd like to address some points. In arabic, the transliteration of words that start with 'P' in English is usually done with the letter for 'B'- hence the (slightly off-colour) joke 'Where should I 'bark'?
Anyhow, the Arabic name for Palestine was used from the 7th Century onwards, long before any idea to be 'creating a ancient history' for the the people of Palestine.

The reason I believe that the history of the etymology of the word 'Palestine' is unimportant, is because it is once again delving into semantics. It doesn't matter what reason the Romans had for calling that area Palestine, the fact is that they did, and the name stuck for some 2000 years- to the land as well as the people.

The reason I brought up the etymology is that Palestinians were never Arabs according to the history I have researched. The reason I believe this is significant is because the modern day Palestinians claim the region known a Palestine was theirs. It never was. The region called Palestine was Israel. The modern day Palestinians claim they are Palestinians. They never were. Palestinians were Jews. Modern day Palestinians have usurped the name and the history for there own personal agenda. I have yet to see any substantiated evidence to the contrary.

I call them modern day Palestinians in order to distinguish them from the actual history. Modern day Palestinians have in recent history been successful in changing the factual history of Palestine and the Palestinians.
Modern day Palestinians are in fact Arabs who have been ostracized by their fellow Arabs.

I will readily work on compiling some references for you of the research that has led me to my present understandings. I typically copy and paste data I find online that is compelling into a Windows Notepad document. And along side these I compose my own thoughts. Over the years I have created hundreds of files that I reference from time to time, most of which do not contain the original authors or creators thereof. I will make it a point to only include material that I can fully reference in all comming correspondence. I would be deeply saddened if a truth was obscured due to my inefficient record keeping.

May truth prevail.

Cybrseer



[edit on 17-2-2008 by cybrseer]

Originally posted by cybrseer
I do not use or trust Wikipedia for any serious research, as it is easily altered by anyone with an personal agenda.

Point made. I only referenced Wikipedia as the quickest way to explain my point. I hope the fallibility of Wikipedia has no bearing on the fact that the 'Muslims marauders' did not uproot any Jews.

Originally posted by cybrseer
The reason I brought up the etymology is that Palestinians were never Arabs according to the history I have researched. The reason I believe this is significant is because the modern day Palestinians claim the region known a Palestine was theirs. It never was. The region called Palestine was Israel. The modern day Palestinians claim they are Palestinians. They never were. Palestinians were Jews. Modern day Palestinians have usurped the name and the history for there own personal agenda. I have yet to see any substantiated evidence to the contrary.

But these 'modern day Palestinians' have been there for over the past millennia. They've been calling themselves 'Palestinians' for this time. The land has been known as 'Palestine' for even longer. The fact that at one point in history certain Semites who called themselves Jews inhabited that area doesn't mean (for anyone but themselves) that for the rest of eternity that land belongs to them. Once again, at least to me, physical land deeds and recent ownership trumps possible historical connections.

reply to post by babloyi

Perhaps you could point me in the way of whatever research it is that shows you that Arabs uprooted the Jews.

www.newswithviews.com...

Originally posted by yahn goodey
2000 years ago or last week-----what difference does that make if you are away from your home for whatever reason and then return to find out that squatters have moved in and claim its their house not yours ?

So you're going back to Europe? Or perhaps Africa or Asia? If you go through the proper channels and are willing to assimilate with our culture, I think we might let you back in.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So you're going back to Europe? Or perhaps Africa or Asia? If you go through the proper channels and are willing to assimilate with our culture, I think we might let you back in.

I think Yahn lives in Israel.

And you totally stole the argument I always use. Thief.

reply to post by cybrseer

But that link is the same as what you wrote! It says exactly what you quoted, without paying attention to history. And newswithviews.com is a conservative, christian-right website, hardly the best place to learn about such controversial things. It is a fact of history (as can be corroborated by any proper, unbiased book of history), that the 'muslim marauders', instead of 'uprooting' any jews, allowed them back for the first time since they had been expelled by the Romans and kept out by the Byzantians.

no not all muslim are extremists .