They're At It Again.....

Originally posted by Phoenix
I still can't discount the possibility of al Qa'ida having WMD, as to the reason for not using them if they have them I think they are waiting for the right conditions to exist.

If they just attacked the US without other co-ordinated operations they know we would squash them while the rest of the world stood by and watched or helped us out of fear of retribution.

Attacks in Iraq were stepped up amid rumors of 20 or so al Qa'ida cells in existance there, further tying down our military even with recent success in capturing al Qa'ida operatives in Iraq.

The Saudi's probably stopped a big attack with the break-up of the al Qa'ida cell during the Haj pilgramage.
More cells likely existed but went to ground with the heavy security in Saudi Arabia during this period.

If conditions of a religious insurrection can be made to happen in a middle eastern nation - take your pick which one, then al Qa'ida can obtain a base of operation or hide in the relatively friendly enviroment of that country after an attack on the US.

If they were to attack now without the above condition being true even hostile states not cooperating at this time would probably not protect them out of self preservation.

A Saudi regime run in the backround by al Qa'ida sympathisers would have two things going for it that might make the US hesitate to use military means to overthrow the regime. One is OIL and the risk that all other middle eastern countries might shut off the taps in response. The second reason is Mecca and Medina as the holiest sites in Islam, would be used to whip up resistance by other islamic nations to any US military response.

The thing to watch is assasination attempts, successful or otherwise as a prelude to action just like in Afganistan before 9-11.

The ceasing of chatter which recently happened, but picked up again after failure of Saudi operation.

Increased smoke and mirror threats to western interests
designed to wear down security efforts.

If all of these things start occuring at the same time, I say watch out here.

Actually, Phoenix. OIL is the only reason why Al-Quada hates us and attacked us on 9-11. We'll do anything we can to protect the oil over there. Even if it means the killing of innocent civilians and soldiers. It's sad but true.

First thing we can do is great rid of that damn color meter they use for the "Terrorist Threat Level." Hell, I can't even tell you what level we are at right now!

Hey now! Don't be bustin' on Ridge's color code!!! That 's not very nice and patriotic!

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

you are right, we will do what we have to do to protect oil in Iraq.

It is true? Yes. Is it sad? No.

There is a good side and a bad side to this.

Good side.
This will help ensure U.S. economic security, which is important to the millions of people living in the United States. This is also important to the world economy which is linked to ours due to our creation of "trade dependancy" with us (much like we are doing to China now).

This could help the Iraqi people to gain the kind of government they want.

Bad Side
If we do not play our cards right, the Iraqi people could end up paying off the debt of this war for a very long time, which could cripple their economy for, again, a long time.

The "aid" sent to Iraq, is in the form of loans rather than grants, which creates a debt that will certainly take a long time to overcome.

Oil is the only thing the economy is based on there, so if the interferance from us is too great, we could end up ruining them all over again.

Note
This is a large-scale situation with millions of people in play. There is no easy phrase that can acuratly portray what we are doing over there.

Like "It's all about the Oil"

Most banner protests are falacious at best, much like the opposition.

Well Jethro, IMO it is sad actuall and here's why:

www.seaspower.com...
www.disclosureproject.org...
www.disclosureproject.org...

I personally believe in what these articles say. So what do these articles prove IMO? That for along time now we've had no need for oil. That in fact we've had a technology that eliminates the need for fossil fuels and oil. I pretty sure Heelstone would agree with me on this. Now you may not believe this Jethro but I wanted you to be aware of it.

Regards,
MrMulder

Hey now! Don't be bustin' on Ridge's color code!!! That 's not very nice and patriotic!

Ah, this is his claim to fame, a color scheme to match what color tie he wears each day. Can't remember orange and yellow being considered "patriotic."

Originally posted by Phoenix
I still can't discount the possibility of al Qa'ida having WMD, as to the reason for not using them if they have them I think they are waiting for the right conditions to exist.

If they just attacked the US without other co-ordinated operations they know we would squash them while the rest of the world stood by and watched or helped us out of fear of retribution.

Attacks in Iraq were stepped up amid rumors of 20 or so al Qa'ida cells in existance there, further tying down our military even with recent success in capturing al Qa'ida operatives in Iraq.

The Saudi's probably stopped a big attack with the break-up of the al Qa'ida cell during the Haj pilgramage.
More cells likely existed but went to ground with the heavy security in Saudi Arabia during this period.

If conditions of a religious insurrection can be made to happen in a middle eastern nation - take your pick which one, then al Qa'ida can obtain a base of operation or hide in the relatively friendly enviroment of that country after an attack on the US.

If they were to attack now without the above condition being true even hostile states not cooperating at this time would probably not protect them out of self preservation.

A Saudi regime run in the backround by al Qa'ida sympathisers would have two things going for it that might make the US hesitate to use military means to overthrow the regime. One is OIL and the risk that all other middle eastern countries might shut off the taps in response. The second reason is Mecca and Medina as the holiest sites in Islam, would be used to whip up resistance by other islamic nations to any US military response.

The thing to watch is assasination attempts, successful or otherwise as a prelude to action just like in Afganistan before 9-11.

The ceasing of chatter which recently happened, but picked up again after failure of Saudi operation.

Increased smoke and mirror threats to western interests
designed to wear down security efforts.

If all of these things start occuring at the same time, I say watch out here.

Iraq's top cleric survives assassination attempt

He was in opposition to US government in relation to the type of political system the US wants to set up in Iraq. This cleric wants real democracy, not the bull# US wants to set up and call "democratic". The timing of thie assassination attempt is interesting.

I was aware, but those articles prove a good point.

But since we are so heavily dependant economically to oil, cars, etc it will take a long time to make the switch.

Not to mention that new technology is expensive. If all cars switched to electric or natural gas today, people would still drive the cars we have today for the next 50 years.

I for one would never give up my Shelby GT 500, at least the one I am going to get.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I was aware, but those articles prove a good point.

But since we are so heavily dependant economically to oil, cars, etc it will take a long time to make the switch.

Not to mention that new technology is expensive. If all cars switched to electric or natural gas today, people would still drive the cars we have today for the next 50 years.

I for one would never give up my Shelby GT 500, at least the one I am going to get.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The other problem is all the oil companies base here in the states will loose millions of dollars if the switch is made.

Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by Phoenix
I still can't discount the possibility of al Qa'ida having WMD, as to the reason for not using them if they have them I think they are waiting for the right conditions to exist.

If they just attacked the US without other co-ordinated operations they know we would squash them while the rest of the world stood by and watched or helped us out of fear of retribution.

Attacks in Iraq were stepped up amid rumors of 20 or so al Qa'ida cells in existance there, further tying down our military even with recent success in capturing al Qa'ida operatives in Iraq.

The Saudi's probably stopped a big attack with the break-up of the al Qa'ida cell during the Haj pilgramage.
More cells likely existed but went to ground with the heavy security in Saudi Arabia during this period.

If conditions of a religious insurrection can be made to happen in a middle eastern nation - take your pick which one, then al Qa'ida can obtain a base of operation or hide in the relatively friendly enviroment of that country after an attack on the US.

If they were to attack now without the above condition being true even hostile states not cooperating at this time would probably not protect them out of self preservation.

A Saudi regime run in the backround by al Qa'ida sympathisers would have two things going for it that might make the US hesitate to use military means to overthrow the regime. One is OIL and the risk that all other middle eastern countries might shut off the taps in response. The second reason is Mecca and Medina as the holiest sites in Islam, would be used to whip up resistance by other islamic nations to any US military response.

The thing to watch is assasination attempts, successful or otherwise as a prelude to action just like in Afganistan before 9-11.

The ceasing of chatter which recently happened, but picked up again after failure of Saudi operation.

Increased smoke and mirror threats to western interests
designed to wear down security efforts.

If all of these things start occuring at the same time, I say watch out here.

Actually, Phoenix. OIL is the only reason why Al-Quada hates us and attacked us on 9-11. We'll do anything we can to protect the oil over there. Even if it means the killing of innocent civilians and soldiers. It's sad but true.

mrmulder, take a look around wherever your at, how much plastic do you see? - how is the structure you are in heated or cooled? - how is the electricity powering your computer generated? - how much petroleum was used to get that food in your refrigerator and cupboard? how about that last medication you had? etc. etc. etc.

Yes many wars have been and probably will be fought to preserve the way of life that we lead, I laugh when someone simplemindedly says "If we just quit using oil- (add whatever political flavor you want to finish) because its so hypocritical, what they really mean is if EVERYONE ELSE quit using oil the way they do I could just keep on keeping on.

I especially do not respect the ITS WAR FOR OIL protesters not because of their message (true), but because they do not look at themselves and their lifestyle before criticizing others, I mean did they walk to the protest? - no probably not.

Nuclear, Fusion, Water, Wind, Tesla power generation sounds good but ya still can't make plastic with it nor any of the other myriad products derived from petroleum that we have come to depend on everyday - Few would be willing to make the sacrifice, even fewer realize what that sacrifice entails.(go back to 1800s).

So being a realistic and pragmatic person, I support the securing of petroleum supplies until such time an alternative supply or product can be obtained.

For those that want to challenge my stance on this or call me a fascist - You will have earned the right to after disposing of and selling off every last item, product and service that uses petroleum, otherwise don't bother me until you've cleaned your own house.

No offense to you mrmulder, I just wanted to point out the irony.

PS; don't forget the synthetic rubber tires on the bicycle.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by Satyr
Actually, if it is indeed Al Qaida responsible for the threats, this is quite tactical on their part. See, if they cry wolf enough times, we'll eventually think it's BS every time. Then, they'll be free to strike whenever they please, since no one will take any threats seriously after awhile.

That was my point

Agreed, That Is what scares me, I'm starting to just shrug them off.....

Originally posted by Phoenix

Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by Phoenix
I still can't discount the possibility of al Qa'ida having WMD, as to the reason for not using them if they have them I think they are waiting for the right conditions to exist.

If they just attacked the US without other co-ordinated operations they know we would squash them while the rest of the world stood by and watched or helped us out of fear of retribution.

Attacks in Iraq were stepped up amid rumors of 20 or so al Qa'ida cells in existance there, further tying down our military even with recent success in capturing al Qa'ida operatives in Iraq.

The Saudi's probably stopped a big attack with the break-up of the al Qa'ida cell during the Haj pilgramage.
More cells likely existed but went to ground with the heavy security in Saudi Arabia during this period.

If conditions of a religious insurrection can be made to happen in a middle eastern nation - take your pick which one, then al Qa'ida can obtain a base of operation or hide in the relatively friendly enviroment of that country after an attack on the US.

If they were to attack now without the above condition being true even hostile states not cooperating at this time would probably not protect them out of self preservation.

A Saudi regime run in the backround by al Qa'ida sympathisers would have two things going for it that might make the US hesitate to use military means to overthrow the regime. One is OIL and the risk that all other middle eastern countries might shut off the taps in response. The second reason is Mecca and Medina as the holiest sites in Islam, would be used to whip up resistance by other islamic nations to any US military response.

The thing to watch is assasination attempts, successful or otherwise as a prelude to action just like in Afganistan before 9-11.

The ceasing of chatter which recently happened, but picked up again after failure of Saudi operation.

Increased smoke and mirror threats to western interests
designed to wear down security efforts.

If all of these things start occuring at the same time, I say watch out here.

Actually, Phoenix. OIL is the only reason why Al-Quada hates us and attacked us on 9-11. We'll do anything we can to protect the oil over there. Even if it means the killing of innocent civilians and soldiers. It's sad but true.

mrmulder, take a look around wherever your at, how much plastic do you see? - how is the structure you are in heated or cooled? - how is the electricity powering your computer generated? - how much petroleum was used to get that food in your refrigerator and cupboard? how about that last medication you had? etc. etc. etc.

Yes many wars have been and probably will be fought to preserve the way of life that we lead, I laugh when someone simplemindedly says "If we just quit using oil- (add whatever political flavor you want to finish) because its so hypocritical, what they really mean is if EVERYONE ELSE quit using oil the way they do I could just keep on keeping on.

I especially do not respect the ITS WAR FOR OIL protesters not because of their message (true), but because they do not look at themselves and their lifestyle before criticizing others, I mean did they walk to the protest? - no probably not.

Nuclear, Fusion, Water, Wind, Tesla power generation sounds good but ya still can't make plastic with it nor any of the other myriad products derived from petroleum that we have come to depend on everyday - Few would be willing to make the sacrifice, even fewer realize what that sacrifice entails.(go back to 1800s).

So being a realistic and pragmatic person, I support the securing of petroleum supplies until such time an alternative supply or product can be obtained.

For those that want to challenge my stance on this or call me a fascist - You will have earned the right to after disposing of and selling off every last item, product and service that uses petroleum, otherwise don't bother me until you've cleaned your own house.

No offense to you mrmulder, I just wanted to point out the irony.

PS; don't forget the synthetic rubber tires on the bicycle.

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think we don't need to go to war because of oil. There SHOULD be other ways to go about getting and sharing the oil but at this point it seems there are no other ways as you pointed out. Thanks for your opinion on the matter. No offense taken.

all the government want is an "Enemy".. they are lost without the soviet threat, they could have an infinite defence budget, curb civil liberties all in the name of beating the red tide. All they need is someone else to blame and someone who can make the US people do exactly what they are doing now.. letting Bush get away with it! get away will speaking such utter #e and damn lies, every time he opens his mouth!

We brits are the same, but apathy around in the human race means they will always get away with it.

What would the poor plane, tank, weapon companies do without someone to go blow the # out of?

Well guess what?

The USSR *really* *was* an enemy. After 1991 many papers came out which were previously secret from the USSR.

The truth was that the KGB had in fact penetrated the West very successfully (much more than the west had gotten into the USSR), and the attitude of the top leadership was hostile. They did have nuclear weapons in Cuba and they were, in fact, on more of a hair-trigger alert to launch than even US propaganda had assumed.

Similarly, radical Islamic fundamentlist really are enemies of the West, and it is not the West's fault. This idea that if we didn't use oil it would be different is silly. There have been strands of this throughout Islamic history, and its origin is internal religious ideological intolerance. The only difference now is that it is more virulent and the power and means of desctruction they have is far more dangerous to the West than it ever was.

Now, I don't believe that all this means that we should let our brains drip out and agree to anything without thinking and criticizing "because you can't be too safe" or "it's for the CHILLLLLLLREN" or bull#e like that.

But there is a real authentic enemy and they are very dangerous.

Originally posted by eRnie
all the government want is an "Enemy"...

That enemy continues to filter over the US borders and the government does # about it!

Yeah, no shyte! Bush is reeeeal concerned about protecting our borders. I think the policy he's now promoting should have him straight run out of office.

They are obviously ignoring the first action of a country under attack. Especially when the attacking force is terror style from outside.

LOCK DOWN THE BORDERS. I am not for depriving people the right to come into this country. But for god's sake, please lock down ALL borders, and create a new Ellis Island so we can at least have documentation.