The end of 'Terrorist Couldn't Fly Planes That Well' threads

Screw the quotations for a minute, I'm tired. Mr Lear, Why dont you test the simulator yourself, since you have all the experience amongst us all in multiple aircraft!? What do you say sir?

reply to post by Guzzeppi


Actually, Guzzeppi,

What you posted already tends to explain just how many parameters are needed to satisfy the FAA when they certify a simulator to be 'Landing' certified (sorry for the repetiton).

I'm just saying that a 'Level III' or, as I called it, 'PhaseIII' sim is realistic enough that the FAA will allow a pilot to be granted a license, a type rating, in the airplane that is simulated, given that the applicant has undergone an approved training syllabus, and the pilot never has to touch the real thing. Of course, in practice, in order to comply with other aspects of an operators Ops Specs, there will be actual flights in the actual airplane...point is, for licensing requirements, the sims are sufficient.

By the way...not any one can achieve the type rating, there are pre-requisites of course.

Oh, and FS4 doesn't count!!!

Originally posted by Guzzeppi

Mr Lear, Why dont you test the simulator yourself, since you have all the experience amongst us all in multiple aircraft!? What do you say sir?

Thanks for the post Guzzeppi. I haven't flown in 6 years so I am not current.

I have about 500 hours in simulators of all types and all types of aircraft. I even have time in a Link Trainer which was the very first simulator.

The last airplane I held a command rating in was the Lockheed L-1011. Our company Kitty Hawk International used the Delta L-1011 simulators in Atlanta for recurrent training.

I was one of the few Captains that didn't crash after a (simulated) dual engine flameout on takeoff at 400 feet. The way I did it was to instantly dive to 50 feet and at the same time retracted the flaps to 14 degrees and commanded 'Dump fuel". I took advantage of the ground effect while we struggled along with one engine. It took about 10 minutes to get to a speed where I could retract the flaps and start a climb. I am not bragging but I will say very few pilots can do that. I was at the peak of my proficiency and I was a check airman.

I was also one of only 4 Captains (For our airline) authorized to ferry the L-1011 on 2 engines called a two engine ferry. The check ride for this was extremely demanding and there were 6 of us who were seeking authorization. I was the only pilot who qualified.

Pilots rarely complement each other because its just business as usual. However later in the hotel, the Check Pilot who gave me the 2 engine ferry check, the former Chief Pilot of L-1011 production test at Lockheed (Rod Boone) told me, "John, that's about the best I ever saw."

Again, I am not bragging. I am telling you that at one time I was very qualified.

The reason I tell you all of this is that in my opinion, at the peak of my career, I could not hit the World Trade Center going 500 mph at 800 feet altitude in a large airplane. I could make a very good attempt but if I did hit the WTC it would have been just luck.

However, I would not even make the attempt for this reason: most pilots spend their entire careers protecting their aircraft and their passengers. I know I did. I would consider it a very painful experience to try and line up and hit a building. I am sure that there would be something inside me that would make it impossible for me to hit the building.

But I am sure that there are other pilots who would consider it merely a professional task and do their best and these are the pilots we will use.

We will be using a Level D simulator with everything on. When and if the pilot hits the building the only thing that will happen is that the simulator will freeze its position.

There will be no feeling of a crash and there will be no harm to the simulator.

In the old days they had the simulators rigged to actually simulate a crash and there would be loud crashing sounds and you would experience severe jolts.

But they don't do that anymore. It's extremely hard on the simulator and its not necessary.

The visual portion of the Level D is extremely realistic and they can vary the weather from day to night to any kind of weather, any wind velocity and direction, any shear forces, turbulence, lightning, anything that would be encountered in flight.

You can be parked at the gate of any major airport around the world, ask for push back, start the engines, ask for disconnect, get your wave off and taxi clearance and taxi, realistically, to any runway. Catering or fuel trucks can even be driven in front of you. Of course, we will not be using any of this. I am just telling you how realistic Level D simulators are.

I thought that SimPro www.simprousa.com had a Boeing 757/767 simulator. They do not, so we will have to look elsewhere.

Thanks for the post.

Folks,

Capt Lear knows what he is talking about. Even if he thinks I am chatting out of my outflow valve, I know he is the real deal.

As I've said before, and as Capt Lear has also confirmed, the current technology of sims is quite realistic...not anything like the Military has, of course...

I also get lost in the terms, that is, how they refer to sims...'Level D' (or I was told Level III)...whatever...I once called them 'Phase III'...

Like I said, I didn't operate the devices, I just flew them as part of my initial and recurrant training throughout my career.

(By 'operate' I refer to the fact that someone has to sit behind us and program in the engine failures, the hydraulic failures, the electrical system failures...whatever they can come up with. Actually, our syllabi are pretty clear on what to expect, we just need to follow the checklist, and know where and how to read the QRH...and, ultimately, it's about using your fellow crewmembers effeciently when faced with a crisis...)

But, I digressed...Capt Lear is correct...usually the sim will be OK after a 'crash'....modern sims just 'RESET'...but that is what the computer does. I have seen sims fall off the 'jacks'...a full-motion sim is a cockpit recreation, supported on hydraulic pistons, or 'jacks'... a six-axis simulator, as it's called. The computer has to not only provide the visual, it has to know how to operate all of the lights, the warning sounds, provide a control feel....and use the hydraulic struts to simulate, best as possible, some of the attitudes and G forces...all of this has to work together, or the illusion fails.

Of course, a sim cannot pull a constant G force...but it can 'fool' the pilot into feeling the force...one only has to watch one of these machines from outside to see what they do, and how the 'motion' can be used to effectuate the simulation.

Finally, it has been my experience with simulators that the only time the device will 'crash', and it depends on the programming, they tend to 'crash' when the computer recognizes that the 'airplane' has hit the 'ground'... that is when, in my experience, the sim will freeze, and the operator has to 'RESET'. Flying through simulated buildings, even with the motion turned on, will not cause a 'crash' in a sim. It is, after all, a virtual construct, the building. The computers 'know' the terrain, the altimeter setting, and the area programmed in.

OF course, one night, we were hit with a lightning storm, and all power was knocked out...no, there was no backup generator in the sim building...We were left hanging in our shoulder harnesses in a very unusual attitude...naturally, there was an emergency egress...well, out the back, around the 'catwalk', and down a ladder supplied by the sim maintenance staff...but that's another story.....

[edit for spelling]

[edit on 13-12-2007 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by Guzzeppi

However, I would not even make the attempt for this reason: most pilots spend their entire careers protecting their aircraft and their passengers. I know I did. I would consider it a very painful experience to try and line up and hit a building. I am sure that there would be something inside me that would make it impossible for me to hit the building.

I agree 100%.

After 30 years or so flying jets, even flying at that low altitude at a so much higher than normal speed would feel extremly uncomfortable, and against any professional pilots instinct.