How Does Aluminum Cut Steel?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


What I'd like to know is:

How does molten anything pour out the corner when the floors are supossedly sagging? Was there that much to overflow the concave "bowl"?

I've done and shown the maths on this elsewhere on ATS.

This isn't about Aluminium fuselages, or steel.

Its about total combined weight of the aircraft and its subsequent impact force.

The planes hit the towers with an impact force of approximately 8900 tonnes.

The maths is here

Force of impact



[edit on 21/1107/07 by neformore]

9/11 was organized by your own government, stop questioning.

There are too many loop holes and not enough inquiry from those who are in charge. They will never tell you, but you all can feel it.

Peace.

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by ULTIMA1

 

What I'd like to know is:

How does molten anything pour out the corner when the floors are supossedly sagging? Was there that much to overflow the concave "bowl"?

That melted metal, whatever it was - lead, aluminum, solder, etc - Was coming from the top of the 80th floor window hole, which was missing due to the nearby plane impact. So the metal that melted came from the 81st floor, which in that exact corner just happened to hold the UPS for Fuji Bank. UPS means batteries. Batteries mean lead and solder. Plus the aluminum from the impact. When the 81st floor broke loose from the exterior column and its' outside edge sagged enough to get below the 80th floor window, again from the impact, the melted metal poured out.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
So Kinetic energy is the answer then?

YES THAT IS THE ANSWER, KINETIC ENERGY.

Just like how does a lead bullet go through steel, lead is soft.
Just like how does a 3/8" diameter x 3/4" long plexiglass plug blow a hole through 2 inches of armour plate.(rail gun, I know some one who has an early test shot plate)
Or Like another poster mentioned how does a piece of copper pierce a steel manhole cover. (modern anti armor mines use an explosivley formed copper projectile)
Or how does a tornado stick a 2 x 4 through a tree(everyone's seen those pic at some time)
KINETIC ENERGY
KINETIC ENERGY=1/2 the mass times the velocity squared.


When will people finally take resposibility for what happened. WE ALL SHARE IN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11. WE GOT CAUGHT WITH OUR PANTS DOWN BY A MONSTER OF OUR OWN CREATION.
There were no "secret teams of demolitions experts" planting explosives after hrs, as I have seen mentioned in other posts relating to this subject.
There were no cruise missles, no holograms( that one takes the cake). The building wasnt pre-wired for explosives, so all the had to do was plant them. There were no mini-nukes/hydrogen bombs, there was no thermite, there as no blast from HAARP or lasers from the ISS or doomsday planes.
It was a collective failure of our society as a whole to protect ourselves.
I remember when we struck at OBL organization while they were in the sudan. We almost got him, but one side of the people, were all "Its just a wag the dog sceme to draw attention from the lewinsky thing." Then after he fled to afghanistan we tried a again, almost got him again. Again "youre just trying to distract us" was the chorus. Well people youre self distracting.More people voted for a american idol candidate than voted for the president.
You have let yourselves be scared and intimidated by both your enemys and your current leaders into giving up on the core values that our scociety was founded on.

Originally posted by tep200377

To answer your question with another : How can water cut trough steel ?
science.howstuffworks.com...

Because water should be less solid than aluminium, doesn't it?? OMG ?!?

Google it before you make a post please ..

[edit on 20-11-2007 by tep200377]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by tep200377]

Waterjet cutting machines use sand as an abrasive for cutting steel (very, very slow). Using this line of logic, it would require 200 billion jumbo jets travelling at light speed to penetrate the steel columns. The only part of the plane that can cause any damage are the engines, and there are 47 vertical steel columns. The planes did not cause the buildings to fall (vertically), since no plane even hit tower 7.

Originally posted by canadude

Originally posted by tep200377

To answer your question with another : How can water cut trough steel ?
science.howstuffworks.com...

Because water should be less solid than aluminium, doesn't it?? OMG ?!?

Google it before you make a post please ..

[edit on 20-11-2007 by tep200377]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by tep200377]

Waterjet cutting machines use sand as an abrasive for cutting steel (very, very slow). Using this line of logic, it would require 200 billion jumbo jets travelling at light speed to penetrate the steel columns. The only part of the plane that can cause any damage are the engines, and there are 47 vertical steel columns. The planes did not cause the buildings to fall (vertically), since no plane even hit tower 7.

WOW, you are certainly ignored by me from now on for having the most inaccurate comparison in the history of ATS..

You really dont know what the issue is.

[edit on 21-11-2007 by tep200377]

Wings need to be very strong naturally to remain in service under all imaginable operating conditions plous a considerable sfaety factor of extra strength. Look past the flimst looking surface of the wing and you find extremely strong spars that provide that strength. In many cases the spars are made of the highest quality high tensile steel so it's very possible that the wings had twice the tensile strength of the buidling exterior columns which enable them to slice through as easily as was observed.

That calc of 8900 tons equivalent in kinetic energy is very significant if you divide that figure by the surface area of intitial contact IE the body of the plane, wing leading edges, engines. Gives an idea of how many tons of force were applied per square inch. I dont think there's a commercial building on the planet that could resist such a force let alone remain standing for an hour afterwards.

reply to post by tep200377


My company distributes a water jet hose assembly that operates at 60,000psi and can cut things a lot stronger that Aluminum - ie. Inconel and Stainless Steel.

I would think the speed and mass of those aluminum constructed 757's would have no problem going through steel.

But what do I know, I'm just a hose salesmen.......

Please google aluminum alloy. Planes are not made of aluminum, but aluminum alloys. They are just as light, but once they are alloys, they are almost as hard as or harder than steel.

Direct from wiki-pedia: en.wikipedia.org...

1000 series are essenitally pure aluminium with a minimum 99% aluminium content by weight and can be work hardened
2000 series are alloyed with copper, can be precipitation hardened to strengths comparable to steel. Formerly referred to as duralumin, they were once the most common aerospace alloys, but were susceptible to stress corrosion cracking and are increasingly replaced by 7000 series in new designs.
3000 series are alloyed with manganese, and can be work hardened
4000 series are alloyed with silicon. They are also known as silumin
5000 series are alloyed with magnesium, derive most of their strength from solution hardening, and can also be work hardened to strengths comparable to steel
6000 series are alloyed with magnesium and silicon, are easy to machine, and can be precipitation hardened, but not to the high strengths that 2000, 5000 and 7000 can reach.
7000 series are alloyed with zinc, and can be precipitation hardened to the highest strengths of any aluminium alloy.
8000 series are a miscellaneous category

Originally posted by jtma508
A far more intersting question is how did they get the plane to fly so fast at such a low altitude? The turbofans are not designed to fly fast at low altitudes. They're designed for the thinner air at their cruise altitudes (in the 30's). At low altitude the higher density air can't pass through the compressor blades very fast and they end up acting like to 50 sq ft barn doors.

This is very correct. Commercial jetliners will stall at that speed and at that altitude unless they are in a free fall dive and falling out of the sky. According to the video the plane curved and dipped before flying into the towers- which is a controlled decent which would be impossible to achieve with that aircraft- especially from a pilot who could not successfully pilot a single engine Cessna!

I do not care if 9/11 was a terrorist act, an inside job, or whatever the hell it was. I will say the "official" report is total and complete horsepuckey- and a physical impossibility. We all know about the skyscraper in South America that was hit full on impact by a large jet and the building burned for 22 hours and was still strong enough to hold an entire crane.

So mathematically- the only possibility for this event to have occurred causing Aluminum to cut through steel is an impossibility in the 9/11 situation.

It did not happen this way. Now if the twin towers were each about 16,000 feet higher- the official story would have scientific merit.

This is not the case.

As for the molten metal pouring out of the building there are numerous reason why this could occur- however to scientifically put into terms the molten metal is thermite theory that conspiracy folks are attempting to use as an explanation is only cause them to look "crazier" and grasping at straws to validate their "inside" job theories. Its a bad idea considering that water towers had also exploded sending tons of water- which not all of it may have evaporated but might have carried burning oil mixed with water.

My point is the molten materials pouring out of the building should not be used to validate either the official story or any conspiracy as not molten metal was tested confirming that was in fact the molten solution which poured out of the building.

There could be over a hundred reasons why it happened- but it do would folks well to remember that there are plenty of other facts to prove a conspiracy- but this one will only serve to beat a dead horse... That's why I run so fast (avatar!) and never stop!

[edit on 21-11-2007 by dk3000]

[edit on 21-11-2007 by dk3000]

Originally posted by Griff
How does molten anything pour out the corner when the floors are supossedly sagging? Was there that much to overflow the concave "bowl"?

Well all i can tell you is maybe becasue it was right in the corner section of the building, not out in the floor area.

As far as how much there was, i believe a 767 is made from about 60 tons of aluminum.

reply to post by han solo


Corectomondo.. I think we can rest our case .. Some people just dont get that..

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


how does aluminium cut steel? how does water cut steel ?water under enough pressure will cut the hardest steels man knows how to manufacture----------it is just a matter of the right amount of pressure.

Originally posted by han solo
[My company distributes a water jet hose assembly that operates at 60,000psi and can cut things a lot stronger that Aluminum - ie. Inconel and Stainless Steel.
:

So your saying that the hose jet has the same impact area as a 767 ? (over 100 feet)

Was the 767 producing 60,000 PSI ? (at the same small impact area as the hose jet)


[edit on 21-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Isn't the outer shell of an aircraft made of titanium? my understanding is that titanium is required due to stresses at high altitude..etc.. please correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by porky1981
Isn't the outer shell of an aircraft made of titanium? my understanding is that titanium is required due to stresses at high altitude..etc.. please correct me if im wrong.

Well i have to correct you. Most of the airframe is made of aluminum.

Here is good photo for you to see an airframe that had been damaged as it hit some trees, it will give you an idea of how fragile the airframe is.

i114.photobucket.com...

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
It has always troubled me how a lighter Aluminum alloy cut the external steel grid of the WTC like a hot knife going through butter. Watching the pictures of construction in the 70's those things were large and strong, the fascade was weak yes, but the steel behind it was thick and strong.
When you watch the second plane hit and go through it so easily, it just doesn't seem possible. I know some people will say kinetic energy did it.
But shouldn't the wings have snapped off like in other plane accidents.
This part of 9/11 baffles me. Thoughts?

[edit on 20-11-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

Well water is used to cut steel.
2" x 4" 's have been seen flying through brick walls during a huricane.

Why would this be different?

There is no speed limit on those planes except structural. The plane has to be able to have full power at any time to pull out of a bad situation. The plane was descending so speed was increased with ease as well. The hi-jackers wanted as much speed as they could get so they would have the max energy at impact. The only time a turbine stalls is when it don't get enough air or it just runs out of fuel. Ever see a B-52 run a low level bombing pass? Same thing.

Originally posted by jfj123
2" x 4" 's have been seen flying through brick walls during a huricane.

Why would this be different?

Well lets see.

The size of the impact area

The material the planes ae made of.