5 Reasons the 9/11 "Truth Movement" Will Ultimately Fail

Originally posted by unknown_one
I thought this single piece of evidence would have been enough to shred the official story into pieces

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

If not? Please provide a reason..

evidence is detonator caps at WTC and missile fragments at the pentagon. Without that, all you have is a theory


and here's some ideas on the molten steel idea

"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."
FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

reply to post by SimiusDei

omg...i thought i was the only person out there that likes quantum leap....i watched that show religously for like, 3 years

But as much as i hate to admit it, your right. Which makes me wonder, how many of the crazy theories are there that the govt prolly started to do exactly what they do, discredit the movement as a WHOLE. its really sad to think this could just go into the record books without hte guilty parties being brought to justice. Which leads me to this, VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!! hes prolly the truth movements last real hope...

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
evidence is detonator caps at WTC and missile fragments at the pentagon. Without that, all you have is a theory

Sorry, but those are on Rummy's desk.

Simius,

Remember, we are dealing with a nation who believed that a bullet can make a 360 degree turn in mid air and hit 2 men....one man twice. Physics is something most of this nation know nothing about. Sorry to be blunt, but people in the US are dumbed down. It's been happening for decades.

[edit on 11/4/2007 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff


My name is Jasn and I support this message.



-SD

reply to post by SilentBob86


Hell no! There are plenty of us Quantum Leap fans out here.

Al was a pimp.


Jasn

If 100% of Americans knew 9/11 was an inside job.

The 5% at the top of corporations and political parties would continue to apoint others from the 5% elite, and lie about 9/11

The 95% others would continue to say 9/11 was an inside job, as the next plots against americans are hatched to distract the people.

9/11 is the tip of the iceberg

Thanks for the thread. There is no doubt that most have already made up their mind about 9/11 so generally it is like trying to push you know what uphill. I do agree with your points but I prefer to try and remain positive although many in the 'truth' movement have been much more of a hindrance than an asset (ie disinfo and misinfo).
Anyway, the fact remains that according to the 9/11 Commission Report the south tower fell in about 10 seconds and NIST (faq) states that the south tower fell 'essentially' at free fall speed in about 9 seconds (well the exterior panels anyway - whatever that is supposed to mean) according to their analysis of video and sizemic data.
Supposing WTC2 did indeed fall at free fall speed, the energy in the system could not have melted the steel (or variations of metal) nor could it have caused steel columns be ejected hundreds of feet, nor could concrete have been pulverized because that energy would have been used exclusively to achieve the rate of fall that resulted. (Law of Conservation of Energy). Net force is equal to zero, so it still baffles me how molten steel got there, how steel was ejected laterally and how concrete was pulverized if the south tower still fell 'essentially' at free fall speed (or close to) unless more energy was put into the system.

I wonder how many people believe that - with all the warnings given by foreign and domestic Intel, the failure of NORAD to intercept a single plane, the struggle just to get the 9/11 Commission up and running, the failure to find bin Laden, the failure of Cheney to have the Pentagon evacuated (after realizing that Flight 77 was 50 miles from the Pentagon -according to N Mineta) the fact that plans to invade Afghanistan and Iraq were already drawn up pre 9/11 and a host of other scandals- that people in power should actually be held accountable for their negligent actions? Or should they be allowed to hold positions of power still answering very few questions about 9/11 even though many legitimate questions remain?

The 911 truth movement can't fail. It's backed by victim's family members, first responders, top scientists, and a large percent of Americans. Haven't you been paying attention lately while more and more political war criminals are being confronted??? Now NIST is saying they're looking at bombs in the buildings after concluding the planes couldn't have caused the collapse. The crony media heads are so scared that they're now calling 911 truthers violent.
If you haven't seen WeAreChange UK's recent confrontation of the former M16 defense minister who authored the Downing St. memo, do so right away. It's the best confrontation I've ever seen.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by spacevisitor
[Because there is no doubt in my mind that they have already take their precautions, they have already created enormous state of the art underground facilities for surviving that kind of disasters for a very long time.

Sure there are underground facilities to keep the government working, they have been around since the start of the cold war.
How is that proof or even evidence of a 9/11 coverup?

It has nothing to do with proof of the 9/11 cover-up.
The facts are, that facilities like that are a reality, and they can and will if necessary used for shelter purposes, but only for the elite Americans of course.
Or do you have the illusion that when you knock on the door they let you in, because you also paid for them with you tax money?

Maybe this is of your interest, because the sceptics are also mentioned.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 5/11/07 by spacevisitor]

I have to disagree. Yes, those are influencing forces, but I find something else a little more perennial: the truth.

The truth of what happened exists, irrelevant of what anyone does to try and obfuscate it. It cannot be changed in fact, only lied about.

And this fact is what remains to speak for itself, until the end of time.

Let's say we go 30 years into the future, and the world is pretty much the same, except for some advancement in technology.

Computer speed by that time will be able to model accurately every nuance of the physics of those towers, jet fuel, and planes. Essentially they will be able to run stunningly accurate predictive models of what would happen on 911. This technology already exists today in cruder forms, employed by structural engineering firms worldwide, and is used to predict load bearing, statics, and stress.

All they would need is engineering diagrams of the buildings and planes.

You could run 100 tests, and if not a single one of them collapses like we saw, you would have to say that some unknown element must have been involved.

This knowledge is out there, just waiting to be analyzed... all that is needed is a machine fast enough to analyze it, some refinement of software that already exists, and the engineering schematics. And this is just a single possible way of finding out to a high degree of certainty what happened, out of many possible avenues.

Now, someone who wishes might be able to destroy all copies of these diagrams to prevent this method of analysis, computers, and all copies of analysis software and anyone who has the potential of creating new ones, but I think that task would be even harder than trying to pull off deception about 911.

reply to post by SimiusDei


congrats, great post

i pretty much agree with all you said except i think the truth will get out soon or later. I think the problem is how fast we can get it out, which is crucial...nobody will care 50 years from now, lol, but if its put out to the public in ways they can understand I think theres a chance.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by luis9343]

I find the OP a bit depressive and negative.
We don't need this kind of attitude, we need to keep pushing forward and keep trying as best as we can

The only fight worth fighting for is the one that's already lost.

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

Originally posted by PepeLapew
I find the OP a bit depressive and negative.

Well, that’s your opinion.
In my eyes, it’s just the opposite.
It are five big nails precisely hit on their unfortunately ugly heads.
What the OP has posted here is exactly the situation of were it looks that the 9/11 debate is sunk in.
And that is indeed an absolute bad and unwanted situation, but it is precisely what the real perpetrators behind 9/11 hoped to see happen.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
We don't need this kind of attitude, we need to keep pushing forward and keep trying as best as we can.

It’s in fact exactly the attitude that is needed, to point at this most unwanted situation, and therefore hope that it will change the attitude of more and more people, so they stay pushing forward in search for the absolute truth.

Originally posted by PepeLapew

The only fight worth fighting for is the one that's already lost.

Can you explain what you mean by this, because I can’t follow you in this one.


[edit on 6/11/07 by spacevisitor]

i am a man a few words because i believe less is more. IF the truth about 911 does not reveal, it's because of us as people. your grandmother and parents don't want to know, neither do most of your brothers and sisters and most importantly the people we consider scholars don't want to experience the truth. that is sad and this is why i'm finding it very hard to believe in humanity these days. very cancerous we are. from this perspective, can we blame the elite for wanting rid of the majority of us? we as people are groseque almost, filth if you would. if not for our selfish need to satisfy the ego, where could we go then? dream on...

[edit on 6-11-2007 by jboogienoj]

There is a consequence for believing a lie. If you believe the lie about 911 and get caught up in end time propaganda machine, you will ultimately go down the road with the anti-christ. The bible says that the truth will be stomped to the ground. And that is basically why the 911 truth movement will fail. But where it fails, God will take up the slack and all the remaining world will see the deceivers caught and punished by God himself. Then there will be no doubt about the existance of God. cantyousee

One poster has said that detonator caps at the WTC and missile parts at the the Pentagon would constitute evidence of a controlled demolition or missile strike as far as he is concerned.

Think about it for a minute folks. I believe that the WTC was taken down in a controlled demolition, but I don't think that detonator caps in the rubble constitute proof of it. You would have to consider many other things before making a determination like that. Speed and style of collapse etc. The presence of detonator caps doesn't mean anything in itself.

This person also thinks that missile parts in the rubble of the Pentagon would constitute evidence of a missile strike at the Pentagon. It shows you how credulous a staunch sceptic can be. Who knows what they keep in the closets around that place? Missile fragments might mean something or they might mean nothing.

Most of these sceptics can not say what evidence would convince them of a controlled demolition or a missile strike because it is a fact that some people are simply not very good at thinking. They don't know what would constitute proof of a controlled demolition or a missile strike but more than that being a sceptic is a way of not having to ever make a judgement and risk being wrong.

For many people, the thing to do is to wait for someone else to think and then to see how many other people agree with that thinking person and then follow along with the herd.

The 911 movement will fail until the judicial and law enforcement authorities begin to prosecute people like Larry Silverstein, Rudy Giuliani, Christy Todd Whitman for fraud, obstruction of justice, or criminal negligence. When the prosecutions start, the whole rotten guts of the thing will come out.

Im a guy who believes in the "supernatural" and is why i like it here. 911 was a double edged sword. Those who engineered and brought down the towers did it in a numerical and calculated fashion. The space in between the towers was the arc, an invisible energy that was melded with the human energy that trafficked the towers, when destroyed the energy would go into the nearest recepticle, a human brain? and posses it, because the arc, is the arc of lucifer, and the towers were built to arc lucifer from his heavenly cage into a man. Think im crazy, then read your bible, go study the masonic order and its symbolism. Go study ancient egyptian heiroglyphs and practices, not saying im an expert on the aformentioned, but i have enough spiritual sense not to doubt the former visionaries of our planet.

reply to post by SimiusDei


You may be right, and then again something could trigger the tensions that are mounting.

I'm thinking we're in a race against time. Those we suspect to be responsible maybe careless and arrogant, but their masters aren't stupid.

Dubya has assumed powers that could make him a dictator of this country before the elections. At his whim, he can declare Martial Law.

So my question is, do you think it's wiser to focus on the place and time we are in and play a role to stop this madness? I think they'll be plenty of time to sort this out, IF we
save the US CONSTITUTION and our Country.

Why is a bigger question than how or whom. Follow the Money to Whom. Why is the trigger.

Circulate the video's from '911 Essentials' that deal with money and the politics and the History. The precedents that indicate the potential for repitition as well.

BTW, check out: Smedley Darlington Butler
Timeline of the Rothschilds, Daryl Bradford Smith
Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech
EndGame The Blueprint


KEEP THE FAITH, The WHEEL GOES 'ROUND!

Simius,
You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think your arguments make enlightenment (if you will) for the American public on this issue null and void. I agree it's a tough road to hoe, but in general, in predicaments like this; I believe in the quote of Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci, that one should have a pessimistic intellect, but an optimistic will.

Basically we've been brain washed to think we are useless, that we can't fight against the machine and that our efforts against the establishment are futile.

We are not useless, we can win and we will win the fight against ignorance and the fight against the real terrorists will be wan. Now, if you wan to fight alongside with me, I will be happy. But if you want to shrug and conceit defeat then get out of the truth movement and go back to eating your blue pills.

The establishment wants us o think the fight is already lost, they want us to be down and feel useless. Looks to me they have already won the minds of some of you here.

"Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes, the ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them...about the only thing you can't do is ignore them, because they change things, they push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do."

[edit on 7-11-2007 by PepeLapew]