The Golden Compass

Ahhhhh!! No no no no no no no no no no... and a big emphatic NO!


The deamons are not .. demons. They are the soul personified as an animal outside of the human body!! This is clearly explained in book 2 The Subtle Knife.

In Lyra's world, the souls are in animal form and can be seen by everyone. In Will's world, it is like ours. The soul is inside the humans.

No where.. and I mean NO WHERE in the books does it say that the daemons are demons as christians think of them!

And for the record.. I have my own daemon. You can get one on the offical Golden Compass movie site. His name is Pilantheus and he is a lynx. Cute as a button.

Sheesh... people really need to read the books with an open mind and stop jumping to conclusions!

VV

Okay, so they added an 'a' for U.K. spelling so it's DAEMONS instead of DEMONS. It still sounds the same In the movie, they say "Demons". Just listen and see that I didn't make this up. Who here likes the idea of their children wanting their own pet demon? That's probably the last thing you want your child to ask you. "Can I have a demon for Christmas"?

There are no words spelled out on the screen. Children and the rest of us will hear and think "Demon".

It is funny the whole controversy surrounding the movie the Golden Compass.

I suppose I forgot how I was in my 'younger' more zealous years as a 'classical christian'.

But in reality as we grow up and stop drinking the 'spiritual milk' as babes, then our perspective changes accordingly.

In short, those in any religion who stay at level 0 - base foundation of the religion - without 'maturing', end up growing up to be the tyrants of their time.

A lot of misguided zeal, and 2 sides looking quite silly.
On the one side you have people trying to kill God off, and on the other, you have people trying to 'save' the almighty God!. What silliness indeed.

And for the rest, we will just go and enjoy the movie, and take away whatever perspective we want on it. Not being forced to think this way or that about it, and being creative and forming our own opinions and thoughts from concepts brought up in the movie.

Peace

dAlen

Well said!!!

And.. why are you so worried about what people will think if your child asks for a deamon?? Really, this is a non-issue. It is a matter of explaining to your children that unlike the movie, he or she cannot have one because our souls live inside of us.

How hard is that? I really cannot believe people are being this stiff and unyielding about this movie. One, it is a movie/book. It is not reality. Two, it should open the door for people to think outside of the box. To see other possibilities. And it should give parents a chance to allow their children to ask questions and form their own opinions!!

Ughs.. I seriously feel so thoroughly disillusioned with the people in this world today.

VV

reply to post by LDragonFire

You don't read fiction? I do wonder if you read the bible? And the religious element that have attacked this movie claiming it's anti-God, don't have their own agenda?

Nice try but as I stated before I am not a Bible thumper so no I don't read the Bible as often as I probably should. I do pick it up every so often but usually only for researching purposes. If the Bible is indeed fiction then why are so many of the stories coming to fruition especially the one about the Sons of Abraham always being at war with one another. And why are many nutritionists just now rediscovering the benefits of foods mentioned in the Bible?
Aethiests make valid points because I know the Bible may have its inconsistencies and this may be reason enough to try and discredit every page. However, it may be the word of God but you must remember that it was written by ancient Biblical man that may not have been able to fully explain the events they were asked to write due to lack of understanding.
Rather than scoffing at the Bible, modern science, aka the tree of knowledge, can actually help decipher what Biblical man was attempting to convey. But again evil has reared its ugly head and is causing disruption by not allowing this to happen. Directly or indirectly this is the same force that unknowingly drives the author.

...by refusing to read it for yourself to draw your own personal opinion, instead you rely on the opinions of others, and make it you own? This is a really good example of Not Denying Ignorance.

Wrong again. You can call it opinion if you but I am merely expressing my concerns based on what the author has already admitted in an interview: "My books are about killing God."
This in itself is more than enough for to base my decisions.
Would you choose to hang out with a person if he was an admitted serial killer?

...you will protest or boycott this because some preachers say it anti-God, but you are not willing to confirm this yourself?

You're calling me ignorant? Read my posts again, I never said I will protest, I said people have a right to protest and boycott. I may actually watch it but parents must remain parents and decide whether they'll let their kids watch this flick because this movie has been watered down to hopefully raise interest for the purpose of hooking and baiting young kids into reading the books.

...you are basing your opinion of this movie on hearsay, you have not checked the facts of this for yourself, you are siding on the side of the fundies this my fellow ATS members is a almost perfect example of Not Denying Ignorance, but following as a sheep in a flock mentality.

As I stated previously, we all have a right to make decisions as to who we wish and don't wish to hang out with based on their habits, vices, opinions and beliefs, even if that person happens to be an author.

This movie is wrong because the religious community deems it so, so don't check the facts for yourself, just listen to what they say and follow what they preach.

No again. If the religious community deems this movie wrong and offensive then they have every right to do so because they are on the defensive.

The irony about all this is why does the author, and his disciples, going way out his way to try to kill an entity that he believes not to exist in the first place?

Good luck trying to answer this one.

Cheers y'all.

reply to post by Alxandro

Nice try but as I stated before I am not a Bible thumper so no I don't read the Bible as often as I probably should. I do pick it up every so often but usually only for researching purposes. If the Bible is indeed fiction then why are so many of the stories coming to fruition especially the one about the Sons of Abraham always being at war with one another. And why are many nutritionists just now rediscovering the benefits of foods mentioned in the Bible?

Speaking of fiction and prophecy explain H.G. Wells:

He forecast the 20th century so vividly and accurately he became known as "The Man Who Invented Tomorrow". He saw super highways, overcrowded cities, computers, video cassette players to see novels come to life, televisions to tell the news, tanks used in wars, military use of airplanes, and bombing of cities. In 1911 he forecast a new type of weapon, an atomic weapon, the atomic bomb. He saw them out of control. He saw the bombs made of uranium and would destroy cities.
H. G. WELLS

And of course Jules Verne:


So are we to elevate these science fiction writers based on there predictions to a religious level? How about L. Ron Hubbard??

as for the rest of the arument this is a quote from the author a quote that I agree with.

Pullman has no qualms with critics who label his books sacrilegious, so how does he describe himself? "If we're talking on the scale of human life and the things we see around us, I'm an atheist. There's no God here. There never was. But if you go out into the vastness of space, well, I'm not so sure. On that level, I'm an agnostic.

"That's not to say I disparage the religious impulse. I think the impulse is a critical part of the wonder and awe that human beings feel. What I am against is organised religion of the sort which persecutes people who don't believe. I'm against religious intolerance."
The shed where God died

The religious intolerance is what I don't like about religion, if you don't believe your wrong for it, if you question it your wrong for it. I'm not the only one that thinks the war in heaven may have been won by the wrong side, if indeed it even occurred.

Religions all of them are man made, they are not based on God, but on controlling their flock, to further their idealogical and political agendas, by manipulating people to Believe or to have Faith in fairy tales.

Aethiests make valid points because I know the Bible may have its inconsistencies and this may be reason enough to try and discredit every page. However, it may be the word of God but you must remember that it was written by ancient Biblical man that may not have been able to fully explain the events they were asked to write due to lack of understanding.
Rather than scoffing at the Bible, modern science, aka the tree of knowledge, can actually help decipher what Biblical man was attempting to convey. But again evil has reared its ugly head and is causing disruption by not allowing this to happen. Directly or indirectly this is the same force that unknowingly drives the author.

Inconsistencies to say the least, you would think a book inspired by God would be a more perfect piece. Also you would think that such a book inspired by God would be a original piece, but almost every book of the bible is based on older stories and just retold in the book.

To question the bible is Evil? I think not, to not question this book written during the bronze age is selling yourself short. The author is not evil because he doesn't believe in the bible, with the sexism, racism, the genocide, illusion of freewill in the fact if you choose not to believe in the Bible or god in the old testament you were destroyed for it.

I could go on all day about this, but most believers are brain washed, and If you stopped going to church, your beliefs would fade over time if your Christian God was Real this would not happen, the need to reinforce these beliefs is what drives this faith. It surprises me that so many follow a religion or faith that makes them shallow, judgmental, intolerant, and gives them this everyone must respect my religious views attitude.

What about the non-believers in your family do you have any idea how uncomfortable it is for them at holidays and other family events when it is expected that they must bow there head when you decide to pray to your god to give thanks for a meal or a gathering that said god had nothing to do with bringing together? Why do Christians expect all around them to conform to their beliefs?

ok I'm finished with this thread, I can't undo conditioning within these pages, I just hope that some day you are able to think outside the box, that some day you understand what free thinking is, and what freewill really is, and maybe someday the Christians will stop trying to tell everyone how to live their lives.

Had to give you a star for that post LDF.

Very well spoken and very well thought out.

It is nice to see someone who can think for themself speak up in such a concise manner.

I applaud you!

VV

reply to post by LDragonFire


You say I am selling myself short for not questioning "this book written
during the bronze age" yet you compare its depictions with those of ,
fairly recent, great science fiction writers? 

How ironic, just like the question you never answered, remember?


Why does the author go out of his way to try and disprove/kill an
entity that he believes not to exist in the first place?



There are those that say Wells and Vernes had inside knowledge of the things they envisioned but those are other threads. 
However, since many of the things they wrote about have since been invented, can they still be considered writers of Science Fiction?

It may come as a surprise to you but I agree with almost all of what you say because I also had the same views once upon a time. I agree that all religions are man made but once again you cannot fault God for the actions and convictions of man. Each religion teaches its own unique version of the message God was conveying so all will argue that their version is closest to what God originally intended, but once again we see the egos and actions of man at work as each religion tries to outdothe other.

It is evil that tempts man and forces reactionary responses. This occursbecause of the 'R-complex' brain, a part of the brain that is reptilian in nature and controls our instinctual needs for survival. We wouldn't be alive without this so it's safe to say some people are controlled by this reptilian brain more than others.

This battle between good and evil has been going on since the beginning of time. This explains why the stories in the Bible are repeats of much older stories. Each time it might appear that evil almost prevails over good, (just as we are seeing today with all these anti-God sentiments), and each time good must be forced to start again with another version of the same old stories, or rather the same old stories based on mans recollection. You can also think of this as positive and negative forces at work, known in scientific world as polarity, always in conflict with one another and yet almost as if one cannot survive without the other.

This extends to people as well because to various degrees there is both good and bad in everyone. Native Americans believe there are two wolves that live within us all, one a mean, angry, ferocious beast always on the prowl and always looking for quick meal to devour and the other a complete opposite, kind, loyal and forgiving animal, truly Man's best friend. The moral being, the wolf you feed today will be the one that will return tomorrow. Once again we see another old story told in a different way.

Truth is, I also for some time questioned the Bible, and still do to some degree, but I do not discredit it in its entirety just because I am not able to fully comprehend some of its meanings, neither should you and especially neither should science. I remember as a young child almost being excommunicated because I dared ask the question "Was Jesus a test tube baby?" Since I have yet to receive my answer this has led me to find answers on my own and now as a result several years later I find myself returning to God, whatever HE/IT may be.

So you see I DO think outside of the box but I have reason to believe that you may not because your impression of God seems to have been dictated by Renaissance paintings of the Old Masters. I don't believe God to have long white wavy hair and a trimmed white beard, wearing a long white flowing shiny robe and walking around wearing cool and comfy sandals. I don't believe the evil one to be a horned little devil, with red skin, sporting a black goatie, having a long pointy tail and carrying around a tri-pitch fork. I think God is more Universal than that, a truly Omnipotent and positive force, forces and/or fields, (whether electrical, magnetic, gravitational,...) that affects everything in Nature and yet is in everyone. 

The message of God is simple but it is man that complicates matters by allowing himself to be tempted by varying levels of evil. 


Now that the movie has been out in the theaters ALL across North America, I'd like to hear some 'reviews' from those who have seen it.

Thumbs up?

Thumbs down?

Was it anti-religious, as certain aspects of the general public made it out to be?

OR

A well-written piece of literary work, that came to life on the movie screen?

What say Ye?

~Ducky~

I really liked the movie and asked all my friends to see it.

I haven't read the books yet, but the people I know who have and seen the movie said it didn't go into the Witches and Dust as much as they books do. They still liked the movie. I still love Nicole Kidman.

I can see why the church gets upset over movies like this since this is a magical story that opens people's eyes. The church doesn't like that since it brings competition to the bible.

I feel that this is what the church thinks since they are based off donations to keep them running. Too bad that religion doesn't need a church or donations to operate since it should be based on your own faith.

That is my reality, but the church's reality already spun that way out of control and brainwashed too many people into thinking the way they want them too.

I wish they would deny ignorance and tell their followers all the truths, not just the ones they need to print and promote to stay in control.

reply to post by NJ Mooch


I like what you said:

I wish they would deny ignorance and tell their followers all the truths, not just the ones they need to print and promote to stay in control.

~Ducky~

I saw the movie it was a steampunk fantasy film for kids that adults can enjoy, pretty good afaic. Visually amazing, reasonably good music scoring (if not a bit over the top), the CGI was spectacular in many moments. The movie cost Newline $180M to make and u can see the money spent in every shot. Felt a lot like a theme ride at an amusement park.

Well, i love steampunk, and that's what i went to see mostly, but the plot and story was pretty enjoyable, though fairly predictable. The author is just plotting the 'hero journey' in a steampunk setting, that reminded me of the vastly superior film City of Lost Children.

Yeh I can see it perceived as a huge broadside at authoritarian church establishments, and Catholicism probably more than most. But that's fine with me, kick the pope out of the Vatican and turn it into a carpark afaic (same goes for the queen of England, and the temple mount ktnx) Really it came across more anti-authoritarian than anything, and having the strength of will to tell big-power to take a hike.

It was not anti-spiritual though, as the basic precept is that the humans in this parallel earth have physical animal totems as representations of their souls, with the space dust stuff seeming to bode evidence of a greater reality. That translated very interestingly to the big screen, and somewhat contradicts the idea this is an atheist film I would've thought.

Ultimately, there really isn't anything in this film we haven't seen before, and it's a recent book series, so there's no established fan base comparable to LOTR. If you like steampunk this is a must-see though, as it really does a good job visually. The child actor was pretty amazing for a first timer, got a big future in films if she wants it. Anyway, I'd see it again, and I hope they make the sequels though that could be in doubt as they haven't broken even from the worldwide openings.

Thumbs up afaic


[edit on 31-12-2007 by Shar_Chi]

Originally posted by TheDuckster
A well-written piece of literary work, that came to life on the movie screen?

What say Ye?

~Ducky~

Hi Ducky,

Happy new year, dear

I thought it was a very poor version of the book. It still had some of the required character of the 'dogmatic establishment', but it was watered down a tad.

Great pity, as they really are fantastic books. The actor playing Lyra was very good find though. Better than the Will Smith effort, I suppose...

[edit on 31-12-2007 by melatonin]

reply to post by TheDuckster

even if it did bash the christian religion, so what? questions abound from me that maybe you can answer...why do I PAY for cable channels on T.V. that are nothing BUT about religion, just because they come bundled with all the other stations? why should any church get a tax break, especially the huge mega-churches that take in millions of dollars a year? can you explain to me why being an atheist (in some logical terms) is so bad? why do i hear about what god has done to his followers as far as punishment for "sins", and feel much more sympathic and forgiving then he is? why is god never, ever, blamed for something, because humans are the ones that stray...but if something good happens, god gets the credit, and not simple the human act of kindness through the use of free will? i have many more, but you get the idea.

Ok so I just watched the movie today......and I actually liked it..... i mean, most fantasy movies for children are boring, 'childish' and patronising...but this was actually really cool....the blimps and stuff, the polar bear fight...

I loved how they called it the magisterium instead of the church......for those bloomen Christians......how the 'church is trying to control the world...and given the chance. the universe..... en.wikipedia.org...

it shows typical religious thymes...such as controlling people through ignorance, trying to avoid the knowledge of dust.....

(Dust) in reality meaning the universe and other galaxies and life outside our planet....."There’s more to the universe then just us"

Question.....do the actors playing these characters know what the basic meaning of the golden compass story is really about.....so are they atheists...and so chose to do this movie as a part of what they believe in...

reply to post by andre18


andre, it's often referred to as "the magisterium" in the books as well. that seems to be a governing body within the church. now, the words "the church" in the film are replaced with "the authority" (which is oddly the name for the christian god in the books)


right now i'm a bit more than halfway through the second book, both have been wonderful reading experiences

i had to post on this thread after i just watched the movie!

ok, to be honest the whole story reminds me of the NWO, not just religion

trying to separate children from their spirits?? i mean come on, they've been doing this for years but to see it put so blatantly was shocking!

hiding the truth from the masses.... need i say more!

trying to take out people getting in the way.. (aka terrorists!)

the whole governing body thing, whatever they are called they are the same!

i couldn't believe what i was watching! very deep!

i wonder if nicole knows some stuff to be honest, she's don't a few films that appear to have deeper meanings!

my only question is how come the government allowed this film to go out? this is the second childrens film i've watched in the last week with talk of other worlds! are they trying to tell them or us something? is this part of mass awakening? but why would they allow it! i must admit i'm getting quite confused!

any one got any ideas!

We should teach all children that having a demon is a good thing. That way we can rid the world of demon bigotry. This film is a step in the right direction.

reply to post by DickieDee


trying my best not to do a one liner so the very nice forum moderators don't remove my post thank you very much but.... what do you mean?

reply to post by realism


Well since xians always blame all there sins and temptations on deamons. In the film deamons are rather like your soul. Since its all just hogwash anyway we should take the example of the film and teach our children they have demons inside them not souls. Souls are just a religious fantasy. There are no holy places and no holy people, only holy moments, only moments of wisdom.