Multiple Realities -- Thoughts, Questions and Discussion.

Jasn A lives in reality A where he is married to Jessica and has 4 kids. His father passed away in 2001 and he, for a short while, became an alcoholic. He is a huge conspiracy buff and can't seem to absorb enough knowledge to appease him.

Jasn B lives in reality B where he is single, his father is still alive and he has never touched a drop of alcohol in his life. He has no children and a great career.

and so on and so forth.


Most of us here are familiar with the concept of multiple realities. Some of us even feel as if they are a certainty, even if we can't really "prove" their existence.

While I am a definite believer in the possibility of multiple realities, the concept leaves me with a few questions.


1. Being a believer in the human soul, I have to wonder, do my counterparts and myself share the same soul or does each counterpart have a soul that is all his own? As those of you who have read my "hypothesis" know, I feel that some dreams may actually be a glimpse into another "reality". If that is the case, I would have to think that it is a sign that "we" share a soul.

2. Even though we choose different paths in life based on different circumstances, do we die at the same time? I personally feel that we would as that would help maintain nature's "balance". Think the Jet Li movie "The One" and you will know what I'm talking about.

3. IF there truly are multiple realities, would that alone negate almost every theistic religion?

4. Even if the idea of a creator, as most religions look at it, was negated by the presence of multiple realities, AND if all incarnations of ourself do indeed die at the same time, wouldn't that be a kind of proof that our destiny is predetermined? If our destiny IS predetermined, does that somehow cheapen our decisions in life?


There are a thousand other questions that the concept brings to mind. However, in the interest of sparing you guys my barely tolerable musings, I'll leave those others for possible discussion later.


The thought of multiple realities is one that truly intrigues me. I also find the possible ramifications of multiple realities to be quite fascinating. Just the thought that I may be living multiple lives, even as I type this, where all of my dreams in this life may be reality is almost enough to bring me a kind of peace. I may be the only one, but I find it quite hopeful that I likely didn't make the same mistakes in another life as I have in this one, even if I wouldn't change the mistakes I have made for anything.



/my 2 pennies.



Jasn

I think the theory in question is much too young to be integrated with any concept of souls -- or any of our other sensitive beliefs. The existence of a soul is every bit as speculative -- if not more so -- than the concepts involved in a multi-dimensional Universe. And so to that end, your first question cannot be properly addressed until Science begins to research what the soul really is.

Your second question again seems to bring in personal beliefs. In the multiple universe theory, you're dealing with two different universes that split apart as a result of an action/choice. For instance, you mention Jason A, who was briefly alcoholic. Alcoholism itself -- like every event that takes place in waking life -- can be predicted, if a wealth of background factors are known or can be tracked. No one becomes an alcoholic overnight; perhaps Jason B's addiction could be traced to a night in College, when he was first offered a beer. At that moment, the split occurred; in one universe, there is Jason A who accepted the alcohol, thereby initiating a chain of events that subsequently lead him to his stint with alcoholism. In the other universe, Jason B refuses the drink, thereby initiating unique events that lead to the snapshot of him in your first post. As a result of each of these (and all subsequent) actions, each character's life-span will vary; I'm sure the Universe will remain 'balanced', regardless of when each life ends. The Jet Li movie you mentioned speculated that the death of each character would make the other stronger. In the multi-universe scenario, each universe is completely independent of the other, and yet both exist simultaneously, sometimes with identical components.

To your third question -- no. There are religious scripts that can easily be reinterpreted to state that "God created multiple realities." Don't be surprised to find people modifying their definition of 'Heaven' to be an alternate dimension; I think this is already being done.

To your fourth; for a long time, I was a firm believer in free will, and would fight against any notion of predestination. These days, I have modified my perception of it to accommodate newer findings. My current view is this: The events that happen in our reality are supposed to happen, because they do happen. If something else were to happen, it would; in fact, if our hypotheses are correct, unlikely events do occur in another Universe. These events can be everything from climate changes to perfect relationships.

Our present actions and experiences are a direct consequence of events that happened just prior. However, since there is an almost infinite number of factors to daily influence us, our actions can be as varied as the world we interact with. Nothing is set in stone; our decisions and indecision in life are every bit as important as we value them to be.

I'm very fascinated by the thought of multiple realities as well. I certainly hope this thread blossoms.

[Edited for readability]

[edit on 10/15/2007 by Mr Jackdaw]

reply to post by Mr Jackdaw


Thank you very much for the input. It was very articulate and appreciated.

I feel that most aspects of our lives are purely speculative. Perhaps one of the punishments that comes with "intelligent" consciousness is an inability to truly see past ourselves. Even in the case of a truly compassionate and caring person, in most instances the deep seeded reasoning for the compassion and caring is a selfish one.


Naturally, I too hope this thread blossoms. There is nothing I enjoy more on ATS than great discussion inspired by my threads. See, once again, a selfish reason for the benefit of the site haha.


Jasn

"1. Being a believer in the human soul, I have to wonder, do my counterparts and myself share the same soul or does each counterpart have a soul that is all his own? As those of you who have read my "hypothesis" know, I feel that some dreams may actually be a glimpse into another "reality". If that is the case, I would have to think that it is a sign that "we" share a soul."

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My soul is my soul, their soul is their soul, but both souls are connected to the same higher self...along with many others???
In other words, you are greater than you know, with your consciousness existing in many different plans of existance. Occasionally, you (your higher self), will find reason to interconnect these different planes and knowledge of another will surface in you manifested existance?

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"2. Even though we choose different paths in life based on different circumstances, do we die at the same time? I personally feel that we would as that would help maintain nature's "balance". Think the Jet Li movie "The One" and you will know what I'm talking about."
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There is no time. Future versions of yourself, as well as past versions are available to be drawn upon, since it all exists now....You could go back to a previous self, and change their decisions and actions, and thus change your present....and future.

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Thank you, Simius. And while I am reluctant to think of it in terms of reward/punishment, I do agree that our current shortsightedness, as it were, is necessary for our development. As you can see, in order for us to possess our current perception, things must stand where they do -- else, we would be completely different.

Ironically, we wouldn't know if we were different -- unless we happened to exist in a world where such knowledge was commonplace. This thought prompted me to consider how our perceptions would change if we always knew, for instance, that there were in fact parallel universes out there, and that every possible action had been performed, and that there were no dualities except the ones we created for learning purposes. I found interesting results; however, I cannot forget that it is all based on speculation and, if I may say so, my own belief -- even if that belief appears to be based on fact.

i tend to analyze this scenario using the butterfly effect. it stands to reason that if even one event in history had a different outcome it could change the progress of events drastically. the only way you would have such a small deviation in other universes would be if the point of tangent was in the very recent past. this would suggest that either each life has its own set of universes and/or there are an infinite number of universes.

think about it. if even your parents somehow managed to marry someone else, you would be a completely different person, not just a variation of your current self.

But who 'you' are -- as a person -- is defined by every experience you've had, from childhood to the present. If anything was different at all, then you would be a 'completely different person', wouldn't you? Even small things, such as deciding against coffee as you head off to work in the morning. Or choosing a different pair of socks to wear. Variations don't have to take the form of unrecognizable events (such as different parents, different gender) in order to be drastically different.

Our interaction with the world around us is a multi-tiered and very rich one. We make decisions almost constantly; in idle times, our minds keep revisiting past experiences and reshaping our reactions to them. "Who you are" is not a static picture; it is an active event. In theory, perhaps, if one were to visit the parallel realities that are 'closest' to ours, the variations might be slight, and the world might still appear recognizable. The farther out you go, the more interesting things might appear. You could wind up in a world where everything has taken five steps to the left (i.e. five recognizable differences between what you see and what you know). But as before, it's just a theory -- at this point, I'll claim it as mine until I can find proper references.

However, this brings me to a more recent thought. Can there be a world with only one recognizable difference? While I believe anything is possible, it also stands to boot that events proceed in a specific fashion. One alteration should lead to a chain of alterations -- much like an0maly33's butterfly effect. But isn't it possible that an insignificant event is the only observable change in a parallel world? For instance, somewhere in Parallel New York City, an unsuspecting lady is on her way home from work. Due to a number of natural forces (gravity, for instance, and Newton's 3rd law of motion), a dime falls from her purse onto the street. She is unaware, and wasn't going to use the dime anyway; the coin itself has landed in a location where it can neither be observed nor retrieved.

Since this event did not occur in 'our' universe, it stands as an identifier for our 'parallel universe'. However, won't other events on that planet proceed as they do here, since no one has been (and can be) affected by the change?

good. it's quite possible that she would have lost that dime at a different point in time, maybe the cashier she got it from shortchanged her in another reality, etc - the net effect would theoretically be the same. so yes i suppose you're right that a small difference could have zero affect on the progression of events. i'm sure you can imagine a universe where dropping that dime cascades into a wildly different outcome.

fun discussion =)

Using my hand as an analogy:

The different fingers represent the various versions-of-me on various timelines (parallel universes). The palm itself represents the oversoul/higher self which has the overview and can access or "be" each of these realities.

Your thread is, in my opinion, the most useful thread running on ats at the moment.

What I find interesting though, is that the most useful threads dont always get the most responses. Maybe entertainment is valued more than the quest for truth.

Since participation seems to be waning, I would encourage the original poster to bring forward some of his 'barely tolerable musings.' After all, this is a forum for discussion, and this particular thread sprang off his musings, to begin with.

What else does the concept of multiple realities bring to mind?

the concept of multiple realities hass always intrigued me....

in regards to the idea that every insignificant decision might drastically alter each potential reality... while obviously as likely as any other hypothetical concept we might discuss, would not neccessarily be true in my mind.

I like the " river concept " of predestination personally....

if u throw a pebble in a river do u alter its course? or does the water flow on, over and around? i humbly suggest that this could be the case. small choices making little difference in the course of a particular reality....while major deviations occuring only if and when a true deviation from one path to the next. basically im saying if I were to believe in the multi dimensional theory you present i would think minor choices would make minor inconsequential deviations...big decisions/ events possibly causing major deviations.....just my rambling thoughts......

"In the Phaedo, Socrates argues that the senses do not grasp reality in any way. He believed that a philosopher's "concern is not with the body but ... [with] the soul."(1) To the ancient Greeks the word 'philosopher' had a different meaning from today's and it denoted a lover of wisdom or knowledge. Socrates was a philosopher who spent his entire life searching for the truths -- the simple, uncomplicated, and indestructible truths that make up knowledge. Socrates believed that there was a division between the body and the soul,(2) and that the body played no part in the attainment of knowledge.(3) The body is only concerned with pleasures such as food, drink, sex, material acquisitions, and wealth.(4) To Socrates, the body with all its needs was an obstacle in the "search for knowledge," and never gives us an accurate account of anything.(5) That no two people will ever hear or see the same thing in an identical way and consequently, will never perceive sensory information in the same way either. Socrates' contention was that human beings cannot rely on their senses in any way as a source for knowledge because information from them varies.(6) Knowledge to Socrates was never changing, but concrete and eternal. He thought that we will never learn the reality and truth of anything if we continue to rely on our senses.(7) Socrates would give an example to prove his point: if you put a straight stick halfway in the water, it will look bent. Take it out, it looks straight again. Is the stick really straight? Our senses try to trick us".

source: www.moyak.com...

Am I the only one who misses the hell out of this guy? Great post Jasn, wherever you are. I'm sorry I missed it the first time. Starred and flagged.