The Two Babylons

'The Two Babylons' is a book written by the late Rev. Alexander Hislop and the full text can be read, on-line, at Philologos.org: The Two Babylons

This thread is for the specific purpose of pointing out errors in the Reverend Hislop's research and resulting statements in his book.

Point #1:
(taken from Chapter II, Section II, Sub-Section I, The Child in Assyria)

But again, Cush, as the son of Ham, was Her-mes or Mercury; for Hermes is just an Egyptian synonym for the "son of Ham."

Hermes is NOT an 'Egyptian synonym' for anything; Hermes is not part of the Egyptian pantheon but rather the Greek. In Egypt, he was called Thoth.

Furthermore, Rev. Hislop gives this reasoning:

The composition of Her-mes is, first, from "Her," which, in Chaldee, is synonymous with Ham, or Khem, "the burnt one." As "her" also, like Ham, signified "The hot or burning one," this name formed a foundation for covertly identifying Ham with the "Sun," and so deifying the great patriarch, after whose name the land of Egypt was called, in connection with the sun.

Why would Egyptian names come from Chaldee? The etymology of the Egyptian name can be found on the Wikipedia page I linked to.

As well, Egypt was NOT named after Ham but after his son, Mizraim.

And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
~Genesis 10:6

From Smith's Bible Dictionary:

The common name of Egypt in the Bible is "Mizraim." It is in the dual number, which indicates the two natural divisions of the country into an upper and a lower region. The Arabic name of Egypt -- Mizr -- signifies "red mud".

Ham means 'hot; heat; brown, sunburnt.' NOT black. Cush means 'blackness', and Mizraim means 'tribulations or mound/fortress.' (per Hitchcock's Bible Names, Easton's Bible Dictionary, and Smith's Bible Dictionary.)

And...Ham is not 'khem' in Hebrew, in the OT, it is 'cham,' which is spelled: chet - mem.

[edited for typo]

[edit on 10/13/2007 by queenannie38]

Point #2:
(from Chapter II, Section II, Sub-Section II, The Child In Egypt)

Therefore, the name of Khons, the son of Maut, the goddess-mother, who was adorned in such a way as to identify her with Rhea, the great goddess-mother of Chaldea, * properly signifies "The Huntsman," or god of the chase.

Chons was the adopted son of Mut, in Egypt mythology. Mut was connected with warfare. Chons was not connected to the sun but the moon and with time. Neither were associated with hunting.

Satet was a goddess of the hunt in Egypt.

Rhea was associated with a pair of lions and/or a chariot; in Greece, NOT Chaldea.

---------------------------

Point #3:
(from Chapter II, Section II, The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child)

The name of Shing Moo, applied by the Chinese to their "Holy Mother," compared with another name of the same goddess in another province of China, strongly favours the conclusion that Shing Moo is just a synonym for one of the well known names of the goddess-mother of Babylon.

Tara is the name of the female principle in Buddhism – the mother of liberation, the mother of the Buddhas, and the mother of perfected wisdom.

Buddhism doesn’t have a ‘heaven.’ Therefore, the idea of there being some sort of ‘queen of heaven’ borrowed from the Babylonians is nonsensical.

From Buddha Net:

9. In Buddhism, the ultimate objective of followers/practitioners is enlightenment and/or liberation from Samsara; rather than to go to a Heaven (or a deva realm in the context of Buddhist cosmology).

Originally posted by queenannie38
'The Two Babylons' is a book written by the late Rev. Alexander Hislop and the full text can be read, on-line, at Philologos.org: The Two Babylons

This thread is for the specific purpose of pointing out errors in the Reverend Hislop's research and resulting statements in his book.

Point #1:
(taken from Chapter II, Section II, Sub-Section I, The Child in Assyria)

But again, Cush, as the son of Ham, was Her-mes or Mercury; for Hermes is just an Egyptian synonym for the "son of Ham."

Hermes is NOT an 'Egyptian synonym' for anything; Hermes is not part of the Egyptian pantheon but rather the Greek. In Egypt, he was called Thoth.

Furthermore, Rev. Hislop gives this reasoning:

The composition of Her-mes is, first, from "Her," which, in Chaldee, is synonymous with Ham, or Khem, "the burnt one." As "her" also, like Ham, signified "The hot or burning one," this name formed a foundation for covertly identifying Ham with the "Sun," and so deifying the great patriarch, after whose name the land of Egypt was called, in connection with the sun.

You forgot this, which helps explain it more fully:

** Khem, or Ham, in his own name was openly worshipped in later ages in the land of Ham (BUNSEN); but this would have been too daring at first. By means of "Her," the synonym, however, the way was paved for this. "Her" is the name of Horus, who is identified with the sun (BUNSEN), which shows the real etymology of the name to be from the verb to which I have traced it. Then, secondly, "Mes," is from Mesheh (or, without the last radical, which is omissible), Mesh, "to draw forth." In Egyptian, we have Ms in the sense of "to bring forth" (BUNSEN, Hieroglyphical Signs), which is evidently a different form of the same word. In the passive sense, also, we find Ms used (BUNSEN, Vocabulary). The radical meaning of Mesheh in Stockii Lexicon, is given in Latin "Extraxit," and our English word "extraction," as applied to birth or descent, shows that there is a connection between the generic meaning of this word and birth. This derivation will be found to explain the meaning of the names of the Egyptian kings, Ramesses and Thothmes, the former evidently being "The son of Ra," or the Sun; the latter in like manner, being "The son of Thoth." For the very same reason Her-mes is the "Son of Her, or Ham," the burnt one--that is, Cush.

Why would Egyptian names come from Chaldee? The etymology of the Egyptian name can be found on the Wikipedia page I linked to.

Because Chaldee predates Egyptian.
I can't find the reference to the derivation of the name of Egypt in The Two Babylons. I just woke up. Here's a site that associates Ham with Egypt.(?)
EGYPT

Ham means 'hot; heat; brown, sunburnt.' NOT black. Cush means 'blackness', and Mizraim means 'tribulations or mound/fortress.' (per Hitchcock's Bible Names, Easton's Bible Dictionary, and Smith's Bible Dictionary.)

And...Ham is not 'khem' in Hebrew, in the OT, it is 'cham,' which is spelled: chet - mem.

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Clearskies]

i]Originall[y posted by queenannie38
Point #2:
(from Chapter II, Section II, Sub-Section II, The Child In Egypt)

Therefore, the name of Khons, the son of Maut, the goddess-mother, who was adorned in such a way as to identify her with Rhea, the great goddess-mother of Chaldea, * properly signifies "The Huntsman," or god of the chase.

Chons was the adopted son of Mut, in Egypt mythology. Mut was connected with warfare. Chons was not connected to the sun but the moon and with time. Neither were associated with hunting.

The name Khons is associated with Chasing Khons


---------------------------

Point #3:
(from Chapter II, Section II, The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child)

The name of Shing Moo, applied by the Chinese to their "Holy Mother," compared with another name of the same goddess in another province of China, strongly favours the conclusion that Shing Moo is just a synonym for one of the well known names of the goddess-mother of Babylon.

Tara is the name of the female principle in Buddhism – the mother of liberation, the mother of the Buddhas, and the mother of perfected wisdom.

Buddhism doesn’t have a ‘heaven.’ Therefore, the idea of there being some sort of ‘queen of heaven’ borrowed from the Babylonians is nonsensical.

She is called The Holy Mother (or was centuries ago)
Here is that stubborn Nasa site: Shing Moo


I'll have to get back to you about Rhea.


[edit on 13-10-2007 by Clearskies]

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Clearskies
You forgot this, which helps explain it more fully:

No, actually, I didn’t; I wanted to avoid excessive quoting.

By means of "Her," the synonym, however, the way was paved for this. "Her" is the name of Horus, who is identified with the sun (BUNSEN), which shows the real etymology of the name to be from the verb to which I have traced it.

Horus is Heru not ‘Her.’

Then, secondly, "Mes," is from Mesheh (or, without the last radical, which is omissible), Mesh, "to draw forth." In Egyptian, we have Ms in the sense of "to bring forth" (BUNSEN, Hieroglyphical Signs), which is evidently a different form of the same word. In the passive sense, also, we find Ms used (BUNSEN, Vocabulary).

The name of Moses!

The radical meaning of Mesheh in Stockii Lexicon, is given in Latin "Extraxit," and our English word "extraction," as applied to birth or descent, shows that there is a connection between the generic meaning of this word and birth. This derivation will be found to explain the meaning of the names of the Egyptian kings, Ramesses and Thothmes, the former evidently being "The son of Ra," or the Sun; the latter in like manner, being "The son of Thoth." For the very same reason Her-mes is the "Son of Her, or Ham," the burnt one--that is, Cush.

It is Thutmoses, not Thothmes…and HER does not mean HAM.

Why would Egyptian names come from Chaldee? The etymology of the Egyptian name can be found on the Wikipedia page I linked to.

Because Chaldee predates Egyptian.

A simple overview of linguistic roots would show you how off-base such an assumption is. The proto-semitic root is entirely different that the Egyptian. This is something that is not debatable in scholastic circles.

I can't find the reference to the derivation of the name of Egypt in The Two Babylons. I just woke up. Here's a site that associates Ham with Egypt.(?)

Yes, Egypt is associated with Ham – also called the ‘Land of Ham.’ However, Egypt was named not after Ham but after Mizraim – who is said to have been the founder, so to speak, of that nation. Just as Cush is said to have originated Ethiopia.

Originally posted by Clearskies

The name Khons is associated with Chasing Khons

That may be so; however, that is NOT what Rev. Hislop was presenting - this is about what he wrote as true - he said something about the hunt - this is not supported.

She is called The Holy Mother (or was centuries ago)
Here is that stubborn Nasa site: Shing Moo

NO, there is no such deity! Find me ANOTHER source and maybe I’ll consider. But ONE source that stands alone isn’t going to cut it, especially one that isn't even endorsed by the site that lists it! That’s not how research works.

I finally Googled up another possible source of the name ‘Shing Moo,’ unrelated to mid-nineteenth century Christian theology and also outside of Chinese mythology - the latter only because a previous search in that area turned up absolutely NOTHING.

Two references to one screen-play, popular in mid-nineteenth English theater:

The first is a paper titled: Cross-cultural Currents in the Theatre: China and the West, by Clara Yu Cuadrado.

As late as the nineteenth century, plays such as The Clown of China (1812) and Harlequin and Fortunio, or Shing-Moo and Thun-Ton (1815) were still popular in England. Most of these works are pseudo-Chinese musical comedies, spectacles, ballets, or satirical skits ridiculing European fashions and institutions from the viewpoint of a Chinese citizen, following the tradition of the "Chinese letters."

And, the second is another paper, titled Approach to the Theater of China from the West, by Maria Dolores; which I had to translate from Spanish to English, courtesy of Babel Fish:

And so on, the sign of this same subject can be followed in the European theater until the work of Brecht Turandot to oder to der Kongress der Weisswäscher, already in the heat of century XX. But still in theater century XIX, works like The Chinese Clown of (1812) and Harlequin and Fortunio, or Shing-MOO and Thun-Ton (1815) attracted in England many spectators.

I was unable to turn up anything else, on Google, when I searched with the full title of the play, ‘Shing-Moo and Thun-Ton.’ Perhaps ‘pseudo-Chinese musical comedies' aren’t all that popular, generally speaking...



...go figure!