No NTSB Investigation

Why did the government imped the NTSB from doing its investigation?

Its been 6 years and we should have the FBI and NTSB reports on what actually happened on 9/11. But it seems the government had other plans.

www.9-11commission.gov...

In every other aviation disaster, including those precipitated by terrorism or aviation crimes or piracy, the National Transportation Safety Board examined the tragedy and issued technical, operational and policy recommendations to our government, the airlines, airports, and others. The NTSB does this to enable us to correct the lapses that permitted the tragedy to occur. Indeed, the party most cited as causing or contributing to airline crashes is none other than our own FAA.

No such NTSB investigation occurred nor is forthcoming to examine the 9/11 crashes. Both methods of accountability and correction were lost in the government’s haste to help the carriers’ finances. The failure to deploy the two systems of examination and correction in aviation tragedies,
were deliberately thwarted by our government and airline lobbyists and lawyers have doomed our citizens to suffer future repeated terrorist attacks. Our government has sent the official message that it is willing to protect the carriers and others and their corporate leadership from, and at the expense of, dead Americans, devastated families and a destroyed aviation system.

The government went so far as to protect the multimillion dollar salaries and pension plans of the executives of those companies who failed and refused to follow the security laws and fulfill their responsibilities. I read those companies’ annual reports and press statements. Therein they
bragged that they have no liability or financial obligations because of September 11, 2001. That is a disgrace and a national scandal which will someday be in our schoolbooks next to scandals like Teapot Dome and the “Spoils Conference” that originally established most of our major carriers through illegal government action.

Mod Edit: Reduced External Quote.

[edit on 14/10/2007 by Mirthful Me]

No NTSB Investigation

Thats because the NTSB investigate accidents and try determine the
cause. The FBI investigates crimes. The 9/11 scenes are crime scene
hence the FBI. The reason for the crashes was pretty clear. Reason
no report was issued was that it was being withheld for use in criminal
trials - much of the evidence collected was released during Moussaiou
trail. Search for it - its been posted.

Originally posted by thedman
The reason for the crashes was pretty clear. Reason
no report was issued was that it was being withheld for use in criminal
trials - much of the evidence collected was released during Moussaiou
trail. Search for it - its been posted.

If the reason for the crashes were so clear why after 6 years do we still not have any official reports? There was no FBI or NTSB crime scene reports used in the Moussaiou trial. No reports matching any of the parts found to to any of the 9/11 planes, i have seen the listing of evidence for the trial.

I thnk you need to study up a little more.

911commission.gov...

By law, the FBI becomes the lead investigative agency when airline crashes are the result of a criminal act, and the NTSB provides support when requested. However, the families were advised by FBI officials that the FBI is investigating only the terrorists. Why, then, have we heard nothing from the NTSB?

According to Mary Schiavo, former Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, "In every single aviation disaster, whether there was criminal activity or not, in every single one in the course of aviation history it has been followed -- not only where necessary a national criminal investigation -- but also a National Transportation Safety [Board] investigation into what went wrong in the aviation system so that it never happens again." NTSB experts would examine flight and data recorders, and ATC radar tracking data, as well as evaluate the transcripts of air controller-pilot conversations and study air traffic control service on September 11th. They would have also collected airframe wreckage at the scenes and interviewed eye witnesses. Finally, the NTSB would have assessed survival factors, based on documentation of impact forces, emergency planning and crash-fire-rescue efforts, [39] all of which would have contributed to a better understanding of what happened that morning.

911research.wtc7.net...

The Pentagon BPS is the only government investigation of the crash of Flight 77 that admits to existing, but it was defined as and limited to an investigation of the performance of the building. There was no investigation into the crash by the National Transportation and Safety Board

[edit on 11-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 11-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

It's my opinion, and that of a lot of official story doubters, that this ommision is one of the more obvious red flags of the 9/11 operation.

ULTIMA1, you have filed a FOIA for the FDR data from the FAA, and received a set of DVD's containing that data.
You have extensively debated these data here and at the Pilots for 9/11 Truth forums.

Could you do us all a favour, and give us a short compilation of those discussions outcomes?
I myself lost a bit track of the latests conclusions what exactly is wrong with the officially released flightpath data from that FDR, combined with Craig and Aldo's CIT interviews with REAL eyewitnesses of the Pentagon attack.

Btw, Citizen Investigation Team has published a new set of interviews on their website :
www.thepentacon.com...

And the evidence seems to point at a white plane flying low over the neighbourhood, and the doomsday E-4B white plane flying over the White House area to confuse future "witnesses" interviewed by the Media on 9/11.

ULTIMA1, keep harassing the authorities, this is the best route of sabotaging of a power groups objectives, I know of.
Don't let yourself get distracted by clear moves to get your anger prevail over cold logic, do not get yourself banned by the increased attacks of vicious forum trolls.

Originally posted by LaBTop
You have extensively debated these data here and at the Pilots for 9/11 Truth forums.

I have not done any discussions or debating on the Pilots for 9/11 truth foum. I have done debates on here and a few other forums but not PF9T.



[edit on 14-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

originally posted by Ultima 1
Why did the government imped the NTSB from doing its investigation?

If you would have read the link that you provided you may have found the answer that you are looking for. Mary Schiavo tells you the answer.

Also note that Ms. Schiavo comments on how flimsy the doors to the cockpit are and she also mentions the single key that allows flight attendants to enter the cockpit.

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The Safety Board does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.

ntsb.gov
Now I know that we have been over this once before, but let me try again. The NTSB assisted the FBI in the investigation. If you read the external quote above maybe you will finally understand that it is a FBI investigation.

Now I know how much you love to ask, "where are the FAA and the NTSB investigation reports?", since the NTSB states that it "does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.", maybe you can drop the NTSB part of that question.

Now ask yourself why oh why the FBI would not want to release information that may be used in future criminal cases.

As you always like to tell people, "you really should do some research".
That is exactly what I'm going to do and see if I can figure out the big mystery as to why the FAA hasn't released any details of their investigation.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

911commission.gov...

Bad link.

I want to know if the NTSB at least helped them in the field directly, and if so, how many did.

Good job, Ultima, bringing in some evidence for what we should have seen and haven't. This is an important point, and it'll be nice to finally have something tangible to work with. But before even reading the OP, here's a response from another thread that fits better here:
---

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
1. If we have no official reports, no photos or videos, how do we know for sure it was FLight 77 that hit the Pentagon. Can you actually tell me with 100% garantee that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon with no actual evidence to support you?

This wasn't for me, but personally, no. It seems from all evidence combined the physical official story is true - a 757 plowing in from the southwest. Is it THE plane? Some clues say yes, there are some official reports missing, they could be forged even if we had them, and nothing proves anything 100%. Were the passengers on-board? Many clues say yes, but DNA could be planred, test results faked, etc. No proof, but thing is there NEVER WILL BE.

As soon as you get over this, perhaps you can stop demanding proof that will never prove anything 100% and look at the preponderance of evidence.

Why no plane parts? Okay there's parts but not many (that we can see yet) and they could be planted.
Why no videos? Okay then, there's videos but they suck and we don't know if that's Flight 77 or a missile or if it's dcotored.
Why no FDR records? Okay there are some, and a cartoon to boot, but they have errors and could be faked/altered.
So what's next?
Okay then, we have an NTSB crime scene report, but it's missing something, and could be just fabricated, so why no... what?
---
And also, So far as I can remember seeing, all you seem to share are doubts about what happened. If you doubt Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, I'm curious what you think might've happened there and on what evidence you base this theory.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Why did the government imped the NTSB from doing its investigation?

Its been 6 years and we should have the FBI and NTSB reports on what actually happened on 9/11. But it seems the government had other plans.

No such NTSB investigation occurred nor is forthcoming to examine the 9/11 crashes. Both methods of accountability and correction were lost in the government’s haste to help the carriers’ finances. The failure to deploy the two systems of examination and correction in aviation tragedies, were deliberately thwarted by our government and airline lobbyists and lawyers have doomed our citizens to suffer future repeated terrorist attacks. Our government has sent the official message that it is willing to protect the carriers and others and their corporate leadership from, and at the expense of, dead Americans, devastated families and a destroyed aviation system.

This is Mary Schiavo, former DoT inspector General, critic cited by LIHOP truthers, testifying to the 9/11 Commission. Interesting stuff.

Of course the obvious conclusion is tht no accident investigation was needed as there was no accident involved. The usual MO as I gather is to investigate for the cause of the failures to learn and improve standards. On 9/11 I think they presumed the failures were from the planes crashing into buildings or the ground. No one needs to dig too deep to offer any new FAA regulations - planes should avod flying into buildings if possible?

But... if as Sciavo says an investigation was still warranted and actively 'thwarted,' this could be telling. They might be hiding something they don't want rank-and-file investigators stumbling across - or it could be a subtle psy-op, ir they WANT US TO BELIEVE they're hiding something so we'll knock ourselves out wondering what.

So I personally don't see too much here unless someone can look into these things and find something compelling:
1) Are there any previous cases of deliberate airplane crashes where the NTSB has indeed done a scene investigation? IF this can be shown as the 'normal' pattern, then 9/11's exception becomes telling.
2) Is there any documented or even specified method of 'thwarting?' Or was the whole thing really never even an issue?

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
This is Mary Schiavo, former DoT inspector General, critic cited by LIHOP truthers, testifying to the 9/11 Commission. Interesting stuff.

But... if as Sciavo says an investigation was still warranted and actively 'thwarted,' this could be telling. They might be hiding something they don't want rank-and-file investigators stumbling across - or it could be a subtle psy-op, ir they WANT US TO BELIEVE they're hiding something so we'll knock ourselves out wondering what.

911commission.gov...

By law, the FBI becomes the lead investigative agency when airline crashes are the
result of a criminal act, and the NTSB provides support when requested. [37]
However, the families were advised by FBI officials that the FBI is investigating only
the terrorists. Why, then, have we heard nothing from the NTSB?

According to Mary Schiavo, former Inspector General of the Department of
Transportation, "In every single aviation disaster, whether there was criminal activity
or not, in every single one in the course of aviation history it has been followed --
not only where necessary a national criminal investigation -- but also a National
Transportation Safety [Board] investigation into what went wrong in the aviation
system so that it never happens again." [38]
NTSB experts would examine flight and data recorders, and ATC radar tracking data,
as well as evaluate the transcripts of air controller-pilot conversations and study air
traffic control service on September 11th. They would have also collected airframe
wreckage at the scenes and interviewed eye witnesses. Finally, the NTSB would
have assessed survival factors, based on documentation of impact forces, emergency
planning and crash-fire-rescue efforts, [39] all of which would have contributed to a
better understanding of what happened that morning.

NTSB participation.

Flight 93 ATC transcripts. Link
Flight 93 FDR analysis. Link
Flight 93 CVR transcripts. Link
Flight 93 Recorded Radar Data. Link

FAA participation.

FAA timeline. Link
FAA chronology. Link

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

By law, the FBI becomes the lead investigative agency when airline crashes are the result of a criminal act, and the NTSB provides support when requested.

Yep.

However, the families were advised by FBI officials that the FBI is investigating only the terrorists. Why, then, have we heard nothing from the NTSB?

"not only where necessary a national criminal investigation -- but also a National
Transportation Safety [Board] investigation into what went wrong in the aviation
system so that it never happens again."

Yeah, why didn't they look into what failed on the planes when they crashind into buildings?

NTSB experts would examine flight and data recorders, and ATC radar tracking data, as well as evaluate the transcripts of air controller-pilot conversations and study air traffic control service on September 11th.

They have done all these.

They would have also collected airframe wreckage at the scenes and interviewed eye witnesses.

Again to determine cause of crash. For whatever reason it seems they did not do this part, and so your point is well taken. Perhaps they didn't want to reveal the drone replacements not matching the official numbers?

But where does this photo of supposed AA77 debris fit in? If this were real, where would it be from and what would it prove? It seems to say N644AA.
big image

No response yet?

Ultima, perhaps you can help enlighten the rest of us:
1) are you still certain there's a big cover-up with the lack of an NTSB crime scene inv. and reconstruction?
2) What piece is that (or what is it supposed to be) with the plane's serial number on it?
3) What do you think caused the damage at the Pentagon of not Flight 77 proper?

Or have I killed the thread? If so, cool...

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
No response yet?

Ultima, perhaps you can help enlighten the rest of us:
1) are you still certain there's a big cover-up with the lack of an NTSB crime scene inv. and reconstruction?
2) What piece is that (or what is it supposed to be) with the plane's serial number on it?
3) What do you think caused the damage at the Pentagon of not Flight 77 proper?

1. I never said there was a cover up.

2. We have no FBI or NTSB reports matching any of the aircraft parts found to any of the 9/11 aircraft.

3. I do not have the evidence and reports to tell us what hit the Pentagon.

Where are the flght data recorders from the WTC ?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
1. I never said there was a cover up.

2. We have no FBI or NTSB reports matching any of the aircraft parts found to any of the 9/11 aircraft.

I thin this point is well made. It doesn't seem all that interesting somehow, but kudos.

3. I do not have the evidence and reports to tell us what hit the Pentagon.

There is other evidence, lots of it, but if an official report of exactly the type they chose not to do is the only thing that could help you out, then so be it. Good luck.

Where are the flght data recorders from the WTC ?

An unrelated question but a very good one nonetheless. It seems they were taken somewhere and never released, and I'd like to know why. This I feel has to prove something, at the least that they want us to think they're hiding something.

Peace.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

An unrelated question but a very good one nonetheless. It seems they were taken somewhere and never released, and I'd like to know why. This I feel has to prove something, at the least that they want us to think they're hiding something.

Peace.

Did the FBI ever admit to finding the black boxes at the WTC?

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

It seems they were taken somewhere and never released, and I'd like to know why. This I feel has to prove something, at the least that they want us to think they're hiding something.

Peace.

WOW! Thanks for the post CL. I've been waiting for this one!!!! What is your source for "It seems they were taken somewhere..."

Thanks for the information it is greatly appreciated.

The FBI has never admitted to my knowledge. I'm not deep into that evidemce, but there are no 'specialists' studeis' or anything for these two FDRs.
Officially, as far as I know, they were just never found. Don't we all know this already? But there were the firemen who reported I think 3 of the 4 found, loaded onto a truck, they thought for investigation, but that's the last anyone saw.
I'll have to dig up the source on that...
WTC7.net
Indestructible black boxes: 8 total, three survive (1 at Pentagon, 2 at Shanksville) we're told.

It is suspicious.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Indestructible black boxes: 8 total, three survive (1 at Pentagon, 2 at Shanksville) we're told.

It is suspicious.

We were also told that information could not be gathered off some the ones that survived, which would be a first.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Over 60 Safety Board employees worked around the clock in Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, and at our headquarters in Washington, D. C., assisting with aircraft parts identification, searching for and analyzing flight recorders, and working with the air carriers to assist the victims' families.

NSTB

As the crashes of the four airliners on Tuesday are criminal acts, the FBI is the lead investigative agency and will release all information on the progress of the investigation.

NTSB

To ensure that Safety Board investigations focus only on improving transportation safety, the Board's analysis of factual information and its determination of probable cause cannot be entered as evidence in a court of law.

NTSB