the shanksville incident flight 93

If you don't think they were in the crash - What do you think happened to those passengers?

Kidnapped/murdered most likely. If people think that Governments can't/don't do this kind of thing, just look at the Russian spy killed earlier this year with Polonium 210 before making a comment.

Unless UA got tied up in the NORAD confusion over real vs. artificial flights, then I think it did land at Cleveland. Airlines are usually pretty good at knowing where their aircraft are at any time. Even after a plane crash, the airline involved is usually aware pretty quickly if it was one of theirs or not, and it doesn't take much time to identify the flight. I don't believe Flight 93 was an exception. DAL1989 was reported as landing at Cleveland, and it was reported a second jet landed there too. UA then confirm that Flight 93 had landed safely following a suspected bomb on board. During this time, the pilots would be in contact with their ops department to keep them informed of the situation, either via radio or ACARS. I can't see how UA could get this wrong.

Has anyone attempted to locate the ATC personnel on duty at Cleveland that day? I'm pretty sure they'd remember if Flight 93 was one of the aircraft they handled.

I thought we had demolished the "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland" long ago. But, for those who missed it....

WCPO's Liz Foreman posted the original news report stating that United 93 had landed in Cleveland, but says the whole thing was just a simple mistake on a very confusing day. The story stated that flight 93 landed in Cleveland," admits Foreman on her station's blog. "This was not true." She claims it was an error in the Associated Press wire report that was corrected in later updates. After she discovered the mistake, she removed the link to the story, but not the story itself; Google searches still found it on WCPO's site until 2003, when someone alerted her to the number of conspiracy blogs that had picked it up. Foreman deleted it, but the damage was done.

The "mystery" plane that landed that day?

Vernon "Bill" Wessel is the director of safety and mission assurance at NASA Glenn. "A KC-135 had to come back to the hangar," says Wessel, as if realizing for the first time that this aircraft may have caused some undue confusion. A team of scientists from the Johnson Space Center in Houston had flown to Cleveland on this KC-135 to conduct micro-gravity experiments. (Also known as "the vomit comet," KC-135's are used to simulate weightlessness. The plane soars to high altitudes, then falls back toward the ground, giving passengers a few seconds of zero-G experience.

www.freetimes.com...


So the "mystery" plane was a NASA jet that landed in Cleveland and parked at the NASA facility there, since it couldnt fly back to Houston that day......

Hmm - so how was a black military jet confused with a commercial airliner? The KC-135 also has 3 engines and a probe sticking out the back, and no-one noticed this????

[edit on 11-10-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Hmm - so how was a black military jet confused with a commercial airliner? The KC-135 also has 3 engines and a probe sticking out the back, and no-one noticed this????

A KC-135 has 4 engines, of course if you had did any research would
know that. Also fueling boom would have been removed when converted
by NASA to Zero-G trainer . Again if had done any research rather that
parroting conspiracy mongers would have know that too...

Since we seem to have a lot of people with answers in this thread, I have a few questions.

Here's an interesting site: FAA Registry

American Airlines Flight 11 - registered N334AA
Results of search: "Reason for Cancellation - Destroyed"
"Cancel Date 01/14/2002"

United Airlines Flight 93 - registered N591UA
Results of search: "Reason for Cancellation - Cancelled"
"Cancel Date 09/28/2005"

Is this when we cue the Sesame Street song "One of these things is not like the other..."

Why is '93 not listed as "destroyed"?

Is there a valid reason why 93's tail number wasn't "cancelled" until 2005?

In regards to the AP article wcpo.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">reported by WCOP.

United identified the plane as Flight 93.

On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.

"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights,"

How/why did United identify a Delta flight, or the NASA "Vomit Comet", as their own?

It would seem to me that United would have to be pretty darned sure (that they were dealing with one of their own flights) before the CEO would make open comments to the press regarding the matter.




Edit: It appears that bbcode can't handle webarchive's "stacked" url for the article.

[edit on 10/12/07 by redmage]

What a crock!! Liz Foremen says: She is another shill doing what she was told to do: Go back and clean up the mes made by the truth. WHO SAYS it was all a mistake? SHE does!! WHO in the AP made the initial mistake? No one knows, of course...it is all attributed to anaonymous sources, of course. The TRUTH is clear: Flt 93 DID land and disgorge it's passengers at Cleveland and there would NEVER have been an official announcement to that effect if it had not been true.

But, Flt. 93 landing opens up a whole new can of worms and blows the lies out of the water, so they HAD to backtrack and cover it up. The lady who says she placed the story now blames it on a ' mistake ' at the AP office: Why are we not told WHO made that mistake and WHY they happened to pick Flt. 93 out of thin air to report on? Because there was NO mistake, 93 landed and the passengers were shuffled off to another plane, one waiting with all the other passengers on it, so they could all be murdered at once...remember that ALL of the flight affected that day were flying at WAY below their capacity..not even enough on board to pay for the fuel...but also remember that the flights that day were not even scheduled!!

Too many anomalies....too many reasons to believe that this was all an inside job...NO WAY that the official story could be believed, even by someone wishing that it was not true..it just does not add up, and there is massive evidence that screams REMOTE taking and official involvement.

Originally posted by robert z
Mark Bingham, 31, of San Francisco owned a public relations firm, the Bingham Group. He called his mother, Alice Hoglan, 15 minutes before the plane crashed and told her that the plane had been taken over by three men who claimed to have a bomb. Hoglan said her son told her that some passengers planned to try to regain control of the plane. "He said, 'I love you very, very much, ' " Hoglan said.

You forgot a few things of what he said to his mother.

"Hi mom, this is Mark Bingham"

"You believe me don't you?"

Just throwing that out there.

Originally posted by robert z
Yes, there were corrections offered on numerous occasions. They made a mistake and confused the landing of Delta FL 1989 with FL 93. They later corrected this error.

I don't dispute you, but how do you "mistake" a Delta flight with a United flight? They land in different parts of the airport...or at least taxi to different parts of the airport.

By the way, rather than Googling this and finding dozens of conspiracy sites repeating the same ill-informed nonsense, why not just call up the paper and ask to speak the the reporter directly?

Good advice. Let us know what they say.

" You believe me, don't you Mom ?" This was repeated over and over, no doubt because the voice morphing can only replicate so much conversation. NO ONE tells their own Mother their last name!! As if the woman that gave birth to you doesn't know your name??!! He ( the morph ) keeps asking if he is believed because they wanted firm witnesses to attest to the phony story of the highjacking and the calls.

ALL of the calls are phony..ALL of the radio transmissions that purported to be from a keyed mike are PHONY, made to look like a highjacking had taken place, where if fact NONE did. It was all mixed into the WAR GAMES being carried out that day..passengers were taken and placed on ONE flight, which was subsequently flown out to sea and ditched and sunk..no doubt the military people doing the work thought it was all parts of the GAMES. To this day they no doubt hold many of the pieces of the puzzle but cannot connect the dots due to compartmentalization.

How could ANYONE believe that highjackers could get inspected thoroughly at the airports, with many of them actually being pulled from line and gone over quite well..and then still be able to overwhelm EIGHT trained pilots and take their aircraft away from them and then fly to remote destinations and crash the planes? It is beyond crazy to accept odds like that. If a bookie were to look at those odds, he would be thrilled to find suckers willing to place bets on that being true..no way.

How many of you have taken my challenge and actually LISTENED to the BETTY ONG tape? If you simply listen to it, you can tell IMMEDIATELY that it is a set up, a sham. Betty sounds as if she is about to fall asleep..she is anything but excited or disturbed..she is obviously reading from a script, or the voice morph is doing so...but if the tape is real, it is a script. Just listen to it. Does that sound like someone who is witnessing horros and about to die? No, it sounds like someone who was asked to read a script as part of some games, and is doing so totallyu calmly and with no emotion at all.

The Barbara Olson calls were equally as phony..from COLLECT calls, which were impossible, to borrowed credit cards that are never verified or proved..as if a businesswoman like Olson would have left her credit cards at home!! Unreal..How can anyone accept the official lie?

Originally posted by robert z
I also spoke in depth with a woman who lives a few hundred yards behind the crash site and who was sequestered in her home for two weeks. She tells of finding debris in her yard, including pieces of credit cards, pieces of metal, and shreds of clothing. The FBI made her close her blinds when the gather the debris from her yard, but she snuck a couple of photos of them picking up stuff anyway.

How did all this debris bounce out of the hole to land in her yard? Nice mention of the FBI making her not look when they "cleaned" up.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
Toiling in the reptillian underground caverns? -- Sorry, couldn't resist that last one! Serious question!

Maybe the reptilians needed more slaves? Sorry, couldn't help it either.

Originally posted by Griff
How did all this debris bounce out of the hole to land in her yard? Nice mention of the FBI making her not look when they "cleaned" up.

I'd have thought there would have been a nice shockwave from the explosion of the fuel/C4/assorted high explosive/Low yield nuke to do that. Small debris could get in a thermal from it as well, and depending on the wind get there.

Maybe the FBI have an advanced black project debris picking up tool.


[edit on 12-10-2007 by apex]

I just noticed. What happened to my avatar? Sorry this is off topic.

Edit: NVRmind..it's back.

[edit on 10/12/2007 by Griff]

reply to post by apex


I usually don't respond to sarcastic diatribe...but nice try. Can we be a little more adult and actually discuss things instead of going the sarcastic route?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by robert z
I also spoke in depth with a woman who lives a few hundred yards behind the crash site and who was sequestered in her home for two weeks. She tells of finding debris in her yard, including pieces of credit cards, pieces of metal, and shreds of clothing. The FBI made her close her blinds when the gather the debris from her yard, but she snuck a couple of photos of them picking up stuff anyway.

How did all this debris bounce out of the hole to land in her yard? Nice mention of the FBI making her not look when they "cleaned" up.

Apparently the debris did not bounce out of the hole. That's an intentional mis-characterization on your part. And what do you mean by nice mention of the FBI making her close her blinds?

Anyway, the explosion broke a window in her house. That was her only damage. The explosion sent debris flying up in the air and towards her yard.

What is your explanation for the debris in her yard? The FBI came between 10:02 and 10:30 an littered her yard with debris? C'mon Griff, at some point you have to face the reality of all the detailed accounts.

A plane crashed in Shanksville. Talk to the first responders. Talk to the people who were there, and who are STILL there going about their daily lives.

Originally posted by robert z
Apparently the debris did not bounce out of the hole. That's an intentional mis-characterization on your part.

First of all you have no clue of my intentions so don't even go there.

And what do you mean by nice mention of the FBI making her close her blinds?

You're the one who said they came 2 weeks later and cleaned up. Why make her close her blinds when she's been looking at it, taking pictures of it and possibly keeping some of it herself? You tell me....what was the point of cleaning up secretely?

Anyway, the explosion broke a window in her house. That was her only damage. The explosion sent debris flying up in the air and towards her yard.

So, the plane disintegrated into the mine shaft but ALSO sent debris up and out? How wonderfully Hollywood.

What is your explanation for the debris in her yard?

The plane was shot down. What's yours?

The FBI came between 10:02 and 10:30 an littered her yard with debris? C'mon Griff, at some point you have to face the reality of all the detailed accounts.

There is no reality in all the contradictory detailed accounts of that day.

A plane crashed in Shanksville. Talk to the first responders. Talk to the people who were there, and who are STILL there going about their daily lives.

I never said there was no plane. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by apex

 

I usually don't respond to sarcastic diatribe...but nice try. Can we be a little more adult and actually discuss things instead of going the sarcastic route?

Well I was serious about everything except the low yield nuke, and as for why they would need to stop her seeing it, no idea.

But in fairness, I would have thought that as long as there was an explosion of something, a mechanism for the debris getting there would exist, even including a shootdown of it. It seems a rather difficult and unnecessary place to plant debris deliberately so I assume some sort of random element, such as an explosion.

reply to post by Griff


Well the thread was about what happened to the passengers on FL 93 as if they all did not die at Shanksville.

I can only guess the FBI made the woman close the blinds because they frown on having witnesses pop up during trial to testify how they collected evidence.

Apparently there are two components to the crash. The explosion sent debris flying and the momentum of the mass that did not explode caused parts of the plane to be buried in the fill. Basically the crater was in a field that had been back-filled with soil some years ago. It was not virgin bedrock.

I have no idea if the plane was shot down or not. If so, where did the plane crash if not in Shanksville?

Originally posted by robert z
I also spoke in depth with a woman who lives a few hundred yards behind the crash site and who was sequestered in her home for two weeks. ....
Anyway, the explosion broke a window in her house. That was her only damage. The explosion sent debris flying up in the air and towards her yard.

How does she live behind the crash site? Do you mean to the back of the flight path, or the back with respect to accessibility?

And thats a rather powerful explosion, to break someones window from a few hundred yards away. Tell me, was it broken by debris hitting it or the shockwave, and if it was the blastwave, how come no other windows were broken?

Originally posted by apex
It seems a rather difficult and unnecessary place to plant debris deliberately so I assume some sort of random element, such as an explosion.

I wholeheartedly agree. But, where was the explosion? Wouldn't an explosion on the ground cause the grass around the crater to singe? Even a little?