Thou Shalt Not Kill, Except in a Popular Video Game at Church

I think the original point was that the Church is using a 'violent' game to tempt new members or simply entertain the current crop. As the title suggest the question is whether it is right that the religion that spouts 'Thou shalt not kill' gives a video game to children that requires you to slaughter veritible armies of opponents.

Completely off topic regarding the WoW thing, it really isn't all that difficult or challenging. As long as you're in a guild large enough to tackle the eno#ers and can press the right button at the right time it's simple. "Paladin, flash heal more plix!" "Warrior, spam more sunders ffs!"

I just have trouble beleiving having halo in church will attract new members. For this statement to be true, then a few factors would have to exist.

1. Adults decide to bring thier kids to churh to play halo.
2. Children make the decision to bring thier parents to church so they can play halo.
3. Children go to church without thier parents to play halo.
4. Adults go to church to play halo.

Grow up Peter Pan, life doesnt work that way. I can't see any parents basing their decision on going to church or not on the fact that their kid can play halo. Just like I cant beleive that children are the ones making their parents take them to play halo. Just like I dont beleive kids are leaving thier parents at home taking the bus to church.

It is done to keep the kids that already attend interested by meeting them on their own terms. Just like a parent tries to use slang that their kids use to relate to them.

Welcome Mountain... formerly known as molehill...

You do not gain a halo by killing people who disagree with you or by trying to convert them. You gain one by living the life. All else is self serving bull crap.

Originally posted by grover
You do not gain a halo by killing people who disagree with you or by trying to convert them. You gain one by living the life. All else is self serving bull crap.

how is this related?

reply to post by grover


What exactly are you saying there?

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
I just have trouble beleiving having halo in church will attract new members.

Yet again I fear you have missed what may have been the OPs intention (which I can clearly only hazard a guess at.) The success, or lack there of, steming from this Church innitiative is ephemeral, looking at the title of this topic it's more the moral implications of the scheme.

In response to your specific comments I can see what the chaurch may have been attempting to acheive. It's an attempt to make the church seem more human, more in touch with current events. For all I know the fact that they have Halo and PS3s or w/e available might make even one skeptical young teen dragged along to church by his parents start actually engaging more when he sees that what s/he originally saw as an 'uncool' institution might actual be on his/her level. I agree that it might not exactly draw in teens in their droves but it might just change people's opinions about the Church and make them more inclined to engage. Make them feel more at home and you might get through to them, break down their barriers and get the 'information' in perhaps?

reply to post by FinalSonicX


The name of the game is halo right? Do I need to draw a dotted line?

Killing people of different (or no) religion or trying to convert them is not what the teachings of Christ is all about.

It is so basic and simple I didn't think it needed elaboration.

Just for the record, you know most churches don't have Halo 3 games to play. This is not an across the board event. I don't know of any churches in my area, that have this going on.

In short, it's an isolated incident that is being used to judge all churches and the people who attend them.
Stereotyping, at its finest.

Wow!, popular thread. Every time I finsih reading a page of posts,another 1 or 2 pops up. Thumbs up for the OP.

I.m really not surprised that a Church would sponsor such activities. From what I have read on these boards, a majority of ATSer's believe that the churches are behind most of the wars. As such it would be a logical extension of church philosophy to sponsor violent play for the children. It also makes them associate fun with the church and killing.

Churches also hold poker tournaments, bingo, casino nights, etc. all the time. Usually for charity with donated prizes. Even though it is not "real" gambling, I think it sends the signal that gambling is ok, even though it is against the tenets of every church I have ever heard.

There is a place called, "The Winners Church" in our neighborhood, so maybe they are an execption to the rule:lol

In summary, churches are the biggest hypocrites in the world. This just solidifies the fact for me.

churches are the biggest hypocrites in the world

You know the churches are not entities of their own. They contain real people, that you know, work with, drive down the street with, vote with. They wait on you at restaurants. Your kids play together. They sew your clothes, pick the crops, run stores you frequent, mow your lawn, fix your car, nurse you when you are ill, fix your ouchies, pick the herbs you use to make you feel better, and deliver your mail. You may even eat lunch with one everyday. You drive on roads they helped build. Use products they helped create.

But let's just up and decide they are a plague on humanity because some article said a church somewhere has provided a popular video game for their kids to play. they also have swingsets on the grounds of some churches.



[edit on 8-10-2007 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
Just for the record, you know most churches don't have Halo 3 games to play. This is not an across the board event. I don't know of any churches in my area, that have this going on.

In short, it's an isolated incident that is being used to judge all churches and the people who attend them.
Stereotyping, at its finest.

I am well aware of that. You find activity like that in mega-churches only, and probably not in all of them. For example the late Jerry foulwell's (yes I know how his name is spelled) Thomas Road Baptist church is only about 40 miles away and i would be really surprised if they had it.

The thing about these mega churches is that even though they beat you over the head with the name Jesus all the time they really have very little to do with Jesus and the teachings of the Christ, if anything at all.

They have taken the teachings of humility and poverty and submission to the will of God and turned it into a materialistic gospel of greed and self righteousness.

They are miles, no light years from the little country churches in the Shenandoah that I grew up in.


[edit on 8-10-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by grover

They have taken the teachings of humility and poverty and submission to the will of God and turned it into a materialistic gospel of greed and self righteousness.

While it may be true that some christian churches are big and contemporary, this type of rhetoric only fans the flames against christians in general, many of whom are just everyday people you may associate with, and even enjoy the fruits of their labors.. There are more "Temples" to the gods-of-anything-goes, than any specific religion. Some folks act like they can't get their thang on without first consulting the local megachurch and tithing, generously.

All you have to do is watch things like the 700 club or any of the other big glitzy TV preachers to know exactly what I am talking about.

And btw I know what you are saying, I am not biased against either churches or Christianity but as it stands today these so called mega churches are nothing but another version of the money changers in the temple.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Why would God give everybody free will and then say that you can choose to follow these rules or not, but if you dont, you go to hell... nice free will there God!

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Copernicus]

If only it were true. I used to think this, but have come to the realization that there is no such thing as free will. Your will and mine can't be determined "freely". There is always an influence, circumstance or event influencing our wills.

Oh, and I don't believe in a literal hell either. And yes, I do believe in God.

A little more on free will. If you would like the link to the site where I got this, send me a U2U.

"Free Will" DEFINED

The American Heritage College Dictionary:

"free will n. 1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice. 2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will."

My Meriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary/Eleventh Edition has an even more precise definition:

"free will n. freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention."

It is useless to have a study on this term "free will" unless we stick to a strict, concise and precise definition of the term. As can be seen from our dictionaries, "free will" does not have for a concise or precise definition the ability to "make choices." Yet this is the way it is often defined.

Notice that our dictionaries are specific in stating that it is "FREE choice" that is the definition of "free will," rather than just "choice" alone. To be an expression of "free will," choices must also be free. Free from what? We just read it:

Free from "PRIOR CAUSES."

Free from "CONSTRAINT."

Free from "EXTERNAL CIRCUMSTANCES."

Free from "FATE."

Free from "DIVINE WILL."

Free from "DIVINE INTERVENTION."

Those who would argue for free will, however, refuse being held to these precise and concise definitions. They want the mere ability to "make a choice" to be considered an act of "free will." Well it is nothing of the kind. Making a choice has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of "free will." This is easily demonstrated. Computers make "choices." They can make trillions of choices per second. It would take a trillion people to make that many choices in a second. All that these marvelous machines do is make choices.

Now then, will anyone contend that computers have unprogrammed and uncaused, free wills? So now we have proof that making choices is not the same as "free will."

We are not speaking of "Hal" in the Hollywood science fiction fantasy: "2001—A Space Odyssey." Computers do not have "free wills," yet THEY CAN MAKE CHOICES, but those choices are anything but free. Their choices are all a matter of PRE-programming. They cannot think and act independently of "causes." Neither can man think or do anything outside of the realm of "causes." In order for an effect to be present, there must first be a cause, and once something is caused, the effect must follow, and neither could have been prevented.

There is not one example that can be presented by scientific a method, that can demonstrate that man’s will is free from causality. Neither is there an example in all Scripture that can be shown to be the exercise of a will that is free from causality. And that certainly includes all that our Lord Himself ever thought, said, or did.

[edit on 8-10-2007 by Freenrgy2]

Originally posted by grover
All you have to do is watch things like the 700 club or any of the other big glitzy TV preachers to know exactly what I am talking about.

And btw I know what you are saying, I am not biased against either churches or Christianity but as it stands today these so called mega churches are nothing but another version of the money changers in the temple.

TV ministries were originally designed for shut-ins, who couldn't get to services on sundays/saturdays/anyday. it's just grown into an electronic church. originally, tithings were not called for because the entire thing was simple, to the point, and there was no way to call in with prayer requests or materials to read on any of the related subjects.

but like anything else in life, money makes it happen, and when requests for more features like music, books, literature, etc, came up, the subject of money did as well.

not that i'm completely enamored with TV ministries, but i know more than one occassion where i heard someone talking on that channel and thought, "Oh that's interesting.." or "Oh, I need to pray about that..." So no matter how its meant, it's still not a totally wasted and nefarious thing. It may be construed as evil, but it doesn't reap evil, if you take my meaning. There are some speakers on there, I wouldn't listen to at all, and some that I think are quite refreshing and interesting. But that's only on the odd chance I happen to see it as I'm channel surfing (over the course of many years), which isn't very often since I'm not a TV fan.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus

But video games do not make people violent.

Video games do not a psycho killer make.

I have to agree with Oct here. Games DON"T MAKE people hurt other people!!!!! Period!!! Unless someone just stole that said game from someone and that someone opens up a can of whoop arse on him for stealing his game.
That's a different story though. haha

Seriously. I think those people that play video games AND do happen to hurt someone, already have social or family problems. It starts at home. If you were raised right, chances are that you will turn out a good person. This isn't the case all the time. There will always be that one bad apple no matter what you do. If those people that have played games and killed people, I bet if their life was better socially, there probably wouldn't be any problems besides getting your head shot off in Halo.

As far as the church using bloody games attract kids off the street, at least those kids aren't on the street selling drugs or doing whatever it is that they do now a days. It's a fricken game, that's it.

[edit on 8-10-2007 by Quazi176]

And, I see no difference in the church enticing young people with video games than with inviting alternative Christian, metal, grunge, etc. band to perform.

When I was attending a mainline denominational church, I heard it said many times that "we are to be in the world but not of it." This was permission to go ahead and act like the other groups in the name of Jesus. Only difference is that members of these groups were "Christians".

Of course, I've also heard it said that "if you play around with pigs, expect to get crap on you." How many on this board have had dealings with someone who said they were a "Christian" but when they started associating with groups they were trying to imitate in the name of the gospel, ended up falling?

I'm not knocking "Christians" but I, personally, don't think that enticing young people in this fasion is the correct thing to do.

VIDEO GAMES DO NOT CAUSE VIOLENCE! If a kid does violence and blames it on a video game, he/she is the problem not the game.

When you were a kid, did you ever play games with your friends or family, where you pretended to shoot people, fight people, play games like cops and robbers, cowboy and Indians, and many more violent imaginary games? they are just like video games. They are games for entertainment, and nothing more!

When these 3d Artists etc go into making a games, they want to make a fun entertaining game, there no way they would be thinking how am I going to get kids to turn into violent people, its just stupid. Also I know that even kids like 5 years old are clever enough to know a difference from a game and real life.(gotta give these little kids some respect, they are not dumb, Ive seen 10 year olds more mature than 20 year olds)

A guy who plays a lot of violent video games, in real life could be the least violent guy anywhere, and would probably cry if he got mugged, because it would be real life not a fun relaxing game. Violent games are fun and are here to stay, so just move on.

The whole church thing? well I don't know what to say about that really.

Just one more thing, most of the games out there are from japan, and there are a lot from Europe, I highly doubt they want to give The US or other countries games that will make the people become future violent soldiers, haha.



[edit on 8-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT HAVING A YOUTH GROUP TOGETHER HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME INSTEAD OF BEING OUT DRINKING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES UNDER AGE IS A GOOD THING.

BUT THERE ARE SOME LEFT WING HIPPIES OUT THERE THAT THINK THAT GAMES ARE THE DEVIL AND INSPIRE KIDS TO DO CRAZY THINGS.

HOWEVER I'D LIKE TO REFLECT ON WHAT THIS IS... A GAME.

SO I POSE THE QUESTION... WHATS THE PROBLEM WITH GAMES?

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
VIDEO GAMES DO NOT CAUSE VIOLENCE! [edit on 8-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

Proof? Blanket statements such as this should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone of us is different, with different upbringings, different circumstances that shaped us. This was the same philospohy back in the late 70's & 80's where many people were saying that the lyrics in music weren't responsible for violence or suicide. However, there were many reports that stated the lyrics were influential for the crimes committed or a facotr why a teen killed themselves. Same for the D&D (Dungeons & Dragons) craze during this time period.

Video games are like anything else, they are a stimuli. They can affect behavior, they can desensitize, they can allow one to "escape" reality for awhile and pretend they are someone else. And like ANY stimulus, they can have an affect on an individual, even to the point of committing violent crimes. Does the person commit the act, yes. But to say that a video game had no possible influence on the person's motives or reasoning is naive.