Ahmadinejad at it again

Ahmadinejad at it again

news.yahoo.com

The Palestinian people are standing firm. The Iranian people and other peoples will not stop until all of Palestinian territory is liberated," Ahmadinejad told the faithful at Tehran University.

"They (world powers) should not think that the Iranian nation and other nations in the region will take off their hands off the throat of the Zionists and their supporters."

(visit the link for the full news article)

I understand I have seen two translations of this speech (one saying Palestine, one ALL of Palestine) but my point still stands. "Death to Israel" is pretty easy to translate and that was on the balloons the children were carrying.

Is there anyone here that actually thinks Iran will peacefully coexist with the State of Israel in the Middle east? I mean how many time does Ahmadinejad have to say it for him to be clear to you? He will not be happy till the Jewish State of Israel no longer exists, even if it were to go back to pre '67 borders. That people continue to give him a free pass on this issue worries me the most. You are in effect condoning his behaviour by not criticizing him for these kind of statements.

I hate to say it but it sounds eerily like the years before WWII.

People were saying then that Germany had the right to pursue arms they had previously agreed not to pursue (ie naval and other weapons). Some said Germany had the right to militarize Alsace Lorraine and the Rhineland, and no one lifted a finger to stop them. Many beleived that "Anschluss" was really what the Austrians wanted and the Sudentland really ought to have belonged to Germany in the first place anyway. That it took the world the Invasion of Poland to finally get the picture was shameful, the writing was in front of their face the whole time, they just chose to ignore it, much as we are doing with Ahmadinejad and his statements in regard to Israel.

Honestly who out there thinks that if Ahmadinejad gets the chance, he wouldn't want to destroy the State of Israel utterly?

Lets hear it.....


news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well, this is a toughie. You ask a lot of legitimate questions.

I guess what I can say on these issues is this, actions speak louder than words. Despite all the sabre rattling, Iran has yet to launch a single offencive. What has Israel done?

Besides, the man isnt an idiot. I think he knows any offencive agains Israel would mean an offensive against the US, and that is one stone i doubt he is willing to overturn.

Honestly who out there thinks that if Ahmadinejad gets the chance, he wouldn't want to destroy the State of Israel utterly?

ME! You forget that they want the land. And you forget that there are more than 25,000 Jews living in Iran. If they really hated Jews so much why have so many been living there for so long and refuse to move to Israel despite all the aide offered for them?

And he won't use the word 'Israel'. He says 'Al Qades occupier regime'.

What they want is REGIME CHANGE, into one that does not discriminate against Muslims.

And yes, Israel does discriminate.

reply to post by Malichai


No, I haven't forgot they want the land, it just happens to be ALL of the land.

Pray tell what is your "regime change" that you think Iran would have in store for Israel and it's Jewish citizens? Would they have as many rights as they do currently or just like the Jews in Iran?

And he won't use the word 'Israel'. He says 'Al Qades occupier regime'.

See this is where the word play really irks me. Are you contending that Iran would be happy and allow Israel to peacefully exist in internationally recognized borders as a Jewish based State? That is what it ultimately comes down to instead of parsing words. What about the "Death to Israel" slogans, chants and balloons? Should we just ignore them like those things don't really exist and mean anything? Your supsension of reality worries me in this regard.

And on a side note why won't he ever even utter the word Israel when speaking about them?

reply to post by InSpiteOf



You would hope the man isn't an idiot, he does seem reckless and foolish, most world leaders in the past have not been idiots either, in fact the most dangerous/successful have been quite intelligent. The way he is continually keeping the war of words up and in Iran's at the very least complict "look the other way" in supply of arms in Afghanistan and Iraq leads me to think he is heading towards conflict rather than away from it.

To say that a Government controlled arms manufactuing system like Iran's doesn't really know where the arms end up is asking me to believe too much, given the varous state controlled aspects of Iran.

I thought you were supposed to use the actual title of the Article as your title, which is...
Iranian President launches new tirade against Israel
I think this thread should be titled something like Taking Ahmadinejad at his Word: The Art of Misinterpretation

Also, the article is on Yahoo, this just seems like more Propaganda saying that Iran hates Israel...

I wish we had a trusted arabic interpreter here at ATS, so that we could weed through the crap that gets 'propagandized' at us.

But I do wonder if this is really "Breaking Alternative News" being that this is from Yahoo... its more like "Breaking Alternative Editorial about the Mainstream News"

DocMoreau

[edit to add, sorry if I sound like a jerk... I am not being the most elequent right now... no caffeine]

[edit on 5/10/2007 by DocMoreau]

One thing to remember is that alot of these fire and brimstone type speeched are done for internal consumption etc. Every politician does it no matter what country they are from. You could look at some of the say anti abortion speeches candidates give at campaign rallies in some more conservative areas and yet in more moderate areas they use a different approach.

Originally posted by pavil

"Death to Israel" is pretty easy to translate and that was on the balloons the children were carrying.
)

it depends on who's doing the translating. unless of course you speak arabic?

Originally posted by pavil
Are you contending that Iran would be happy and allow Israel to peacefully exist in internationally recognized borders as a Jewish based State?

An accurate answer to this question, that isn't simply supposition, cannot be determined until Israel ceases its illegal occupation and complies with the majority of the world's (UN's) requirement to give back the land they have stolen at gunpoint.

If Ahmejimjam keeps up his rhetoric after that, then you may have a point worth discussing.

Originally posted by RogerT
An accurate answer to this question, that isn't simply supposition, cannot be determined until Israel ceases its illegal occupation and complies with the majority of the world's (UN's) requirement to give back the land they have stolen at gunpoint.

If Ahmejimjam keeps up his rhetoric after that, then you may have a point worth discussing.

Well said.

To answer the question of whether I think Iran's President (who by the way is no idiot) would give the green light to destroy Israel if given the chance then I'd have to say no. Judging from Iran's past on launching unprovoked attacks against another country (let alone invading one), then I highly doubt it.

Israel on the other hand has a history of such, and in which case I do believe Israel would attack and cripple Iran if given the chance or right opportunity.

Non-violent regime change is something even some Jews/Israelis have called for, so he doesn't corner the market on it. It's like saying I want to destroy America because I can't wait for this administration to take a hike.

Sorry that's not the same thing.

I've been thinking about what he has been saying and although not a big fan of his, I think he means The State of Israel must cease to exist, not necessarily the people of that state.

Example: There's two towns. One called Anytown, the other East Anytown. Anytown says East Anytown should not exist and it should be eradicated. Now, that would mean, in this case, the people of Anytown don't think the people of East Anytown have legitimately made a town and they shouldn't be allowed to have their own town. They don't actually want to see the people of East Anytown dead.

OK...maybe not the best example, but hopefully you all know what I mean.

Let's speak frankly: nobody in the region wants the Israeli state there except Israel. It's a European colony established on land that had been Arab for more than a thousand years. It's a religious apartheid regime built on a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign.

That said, Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Ahmadinejad knows that as well as anyone else, and whatever rhetoric he spews, he's in no position to do anything about it. Even if Iran had nukes, which they don't, and won't for years, the best they could hope for WRT Israel is mutual assured destruction.

This is a demagogue trying to score points with his political base, nothing more.
Enough with the Iran hysteria already

Originally posted by pavil
Honestly who out there thinks that if Ahmadinejad gets the chance, he wouldn't want to destroy the State of Israel utterly?

The state of Israel in it's current form?
Yes, he would love to see it destroyed/torn down/resolved.

The people of Israel?
No. I don't believe he wishes any harm to anyone... other than the corrupt tyrants that are keeping Israel locked in a genocidal campaign against it's native population.

I fully support the notion that Israel shouldn't exist the way Israel currently exists. There should be a separation of church and state. All peoples should be allowed to vote. It's Administration should be held accountable for it's illegal operations. It should not be a nuclear power.

For more info on the BS media attack on Iran, see my sig.

Originally posted by RogerT
An accurate answer to this question, that isn't simply supposition, cannot be determined until Israel ceases its illegal occupation and complies with the majority of the world's (UN's) requirement to give back the land they have stolen at gunpoint.

Link???

How far do you want to go back in terms of who is the "legal" or "first" inhabitants of a particular piece of land?

USA out of America, yall should all go back to where you come from, and that's Africa, the biginning of homosapiens.

Iran is rattling the cages so much because he knows the west is weak. We are no longer united. Nato is a joke, England is pulling out of Iraq, America is alone and pre-occupied with domestic anti-war and Iraq war movements.

They are trying to be the ideological leader for the Islamic movements. What the-shorty-napoleon-complex-ahmadenijad is saying is what every Islamist are thinking inside their head.

There is not one muslim you talk to will want Israel exist as a state.

*SNIP*

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 5/10/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by FredT
One thing to remember is that alot of these fire and brimstone type speeched are done for internal consumption etc. Every politician does it no matter what country they are from. You could look at some of the say anti abortion speeches candidates give at campaign rallies in some more conservative areas and yet in more moderate areas they use a different approach.

I would think to External consumption as well FredT. There are some literal-educated brass there that know where each sentence of their chief spokesman will be so easily deciphered. Dunno?, just a thought.

Dallas

Can anyone please show me the part where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is so damn smart? What have he said new? What groundbreaking treaty or negotiation he has started or propose to resolve the issue? Where are his Mandela or Mather Luther King style approach to resolve the issues?

All this guy do is average, he talks what ever is on the heads of his people, the old same garbage "Death to Israel" ( but only the state, we love the people, PLEASE), the message is old, the approach is old, he has not done anything to advance peace in the region, let me put it this way. he has done the same for peace in the region as the Bush Administration, the Israeli Government and the Palestinian Goverment have accomplished, and for all of you who do not know what all this people have accomplish, here is my list :

-NOTHING

THATS IT! That all his done. So I would like to know what is it that this guy has said or done that makes him a genius. And standing up to the big bad bully U.S. or the evil Zionist dont count on my list, as far as I'm concerned he is as much of a fool as the guys on the other side, another puppet of his dictatorial regime.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Bunch]

I believe he is not willing to use nuclear weapons in Israel, as like stated before, he wants the Palestinian people to be free. The nukes would seriously harm the entire area.

But it is still blurry to me on whether he wants a regime change, Israel destroyed, or what. I get mixed messages.

Plus, I dislike him greatly. In fact I hate him. I know he is not anti-semitic, as he has said Jews live in his country and are not persecuted by the government, which is true. However, his denial of the holocaust is deplorable. I suggest he go visit Auschwitz to get a real look at what happened.

And the one other thing that really tore a hole in my heart was when he stated that there were no homosexuals in Iran; a complete and utter lie. He is a murderer, like many of the leaders of other Islamic countries, butchering people for their sexual preference (and beliefs, if you count their persecutions of the Baha'i faith.).

I would not be upset if this man was assassinated. There, I said it.

I beleive he thinks that the Isreali state is illegal and was thrust upon the palestinians against their will. If that wasn't bad enough for the palestinians, Isreal continues to seize more and more land and calls it their own. He really just wants the Palestinians to decide their own fate.
He wants to liberate the Palestinian people against tyranny, just as the US wants to liberate Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran.

Just imagine if the UN had decided that New Jersey would have been Isreal's new home instead of its current location. Do you think the inhabitants of NJ would take it sitting down? Or it's neighboring states? Especially if Isreal then tried taking pieces of New York and Pennsylvania as their own, through violent means. I know this simplified but you get the picture.

I can tell you the US people would not take it standing down and we would squash Isreal in a jiffy. But since Isreal is somewhere else and it's the land of people we don't like, then it is all ok for them to do this? People hate the state of Isreal for good reason IMO. Myself. I love Jews, Muslims, fellow Americans and all the peoples of the world. I do hate tyrannical goverments.

As for Ahmadinejad, I do not know enough truth to be able to honestly judge his intentions, but it is clear that there is plenty to help substantiate his position on Isreal. He doesn't hate Jews just their hostile and land grubbing goverment.