Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

I just cant figure out how she can strangle herself, Im trying to imagine it but cant.

Oh man, that woman had an impressive list of relatives. It's not going to be a pretty investigation.

She was quoted as saying "I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!"
right before she was taken into custody. Mother of three children. Her dad was a Commander at the Navy Diving School in South Africa. Her mom was a NYC public advocate.

Egads.

reply to post by infamouskiller


You already believe the cops are lying, so I think there is quite a bit of logical disconnect when you're taking part of their story as 100% accurate and not the other. I think these cops could just have their facts wrong.

what if she was preprogrammed? I mean the behavior is wierd for a situation like that. Or she was a spy or something?

reply to post by mastermind77


I kind of wondered that, too, but where is the proof for preprogrammed spies/killers? What proof is there that such programming is even possible?

Originally posted by mastermind77
what if she was preprogrammed? I mean the behavior is wierd for a situation like that. Or she was a spy or something?

My sister was telliing me about some of her more interesting encounters at the gate scanners. For example, she usually carries a small container of apple sauce in her purse. They told her she couldn't do that anymore. So she started carrying a banana. They took her aside to investigate the banana.

"It's a banana." She said.

Anyway...

reply to post by undo


Have you ever seen "Ice Road Truckers"? In subzero temperatures, a banana can be used as a club to kill a man.

reply to post by paraclete1


Now I'm wondering if they did have a camera in the holding cell she was in, and if so did anyone bother to look at it occasionally. Even if they just glanced at it a time or two they should still have noticed if she wasn't moving, or was acting differently than a normal person does when they calm down. I can understand tuning out screams though. I'm a mother, and I worked in a nursing home. After awhile you do start to tune out the noises (screams and such) that are normal, but when you have someone who yells and screams almost nonstop and they suddenly get really quiet you notice. That's normally how I can tell my son is doing something he shouldn't be doing just by the lack of noise.

It worked the same in the nursing home. If a resident yelled all the time, and then they stopped yelling for an extended period of time I noticed and went to check on them. Found a woman who had fallen and cut her forehead one day because she stopped yelling. I knew it wasn't normal and checked it out.

Anyway, my point is it just seems to me that if your working in an area where people are held in holding cells and you have someone come in ranting and raving and they suddenly get quiet you would check to make sure they haven't either escaped or gotten hurt. But that's just me...

She was a 45 year old woman, its very doubtful she could bring the cuffs up and over her head and then have the chain from the cuffs, because of the leverage and force, press against her throat choking her, By herself.

It is possible for someone to grab the chain on the cuffs and pull it over her head into that position, but this usually will end up with her shoulders being popped out of socket.

I don't see how the official story makes any since.

In this day and age at a airport I guarantee there is video of this.

reply to post by undo


Witnesses say she looked scared, said she needed help, and the police could call no one with mental health skills? She was acting a bit crazy?
And no one thought to keep an eye on her for her own safety?

At the very least, the police should have used more care with this woman.
Whether accidental or suicide or manslaughter, she was in their care and they do share some responsibility for her conditon.

Originally posted by undo
She was quoted as saying "I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!"

This is not the statement necessarily of a crazy person, or especially a person who has harmful intentions. It sounds to me as if something happened that frightened her. Was security shaking her down or getting ready to charge falsely charge her with terrorism?
We need to know what made her say that. Sounds like they should have called 911 and hold her for observation for 24 hours or so, in this situation. That would have been more helpful and more appropriate than treating her like a criminal.
2 years ago, when we moved cross country with our dog and 3 cats, we were on an airplane getting ready to leave and they suddenly took us off the plane, without telling us what it was about. It scared the bejeezus out of us and they wouldn't tell us until after they led us back to inside the terminal and the ticket counter, that there was paperwork that was messed up for our dog and couldn't fly until they got it straightened out. Meanwhile, I didn't know where our dog was. So I asked the gateperson at the counter "Where's our dog?" She replied "How the hell should I know where you dog is?" That was it for me, I lost it then and said very loudly (on purpose) "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE OUR DOG is?" Every head in the terminal turned, concerned for our dog and us. Immediately the gateperson was removed and someone with a little more tact showed up and apologized. I had a legitimate reason for making a scene, but in hindsight, I could have been arrested for terrorism. It was an awful experience.
They did have our dog and somehow, we all safely made it to Tennessee, but what a moron the gateperson and the other person was who handled all this. Maybe something similar happened to her and she just lost it out of fear and anger. This does not make her a criminal at all.
Also, nowhere does it say that anyone ever tried to find out what she was upset about, nor does it mention any interaction before she started screaming. These are major things to leave out of a story, all of which makes me wonder what the hell security/gatepeople were doing. Did they say something outrageous that set her off?

Potential scenario:

They take her aside to investigate her carry ons. It takes so long, she ends up missing her flight. She's ill and apparently thinks the plane flight is a very important thing. She reschedules but is still upset about missing the flight. (perhaps she was on her way to get medical help/advice). She starts to rant and gets a snide comment from the airline, who send her to complain to the security that stopped her at the gate. she goes to them with her complaint, and they give her an even ruder comment. this point, frustrated beyond reason, ill, emotionally distraught, possibly even menopausal, she freaks out and raises her voice and begins to fuss loudly while pacing back and forth. they tell her to calm down and when she doesn't they arrest her. she freaks out because the cuffs hurt and she's already feeling ill and emotionally fragile. so they beat her for freaking out. then put her in a holding cell where she mysteriously dies.

Long story short: Sounds like she needed an ambulance not a holding cell.

Originally posted by Jenna

... Even if they just glanced at it a time or two they should still have noticed if she wasn't moving, or was acting differently than a normal person does when they calm down.

We got used to them just laying down after a tantrum. Now if we'd noticed one arm being behind their back and the other wrapped around the throat, we'd have probably checked it out. Another thing is that where the monitors were, was another room and we didn't usually have the volume up due to it being a 911 dispatch center. The cops usually just brought them in, booked them, locked them down and left. It was rare, but it did happen that they may halt the booking procedure for some reason, lock them down and come back later. But most departments aren't going to pay to have someone just watch every inmates move, all the time. And it's possible that this is one of those cases where everything was done right, but something went wrong. But having read that her family is rather high profile, we'll be hearing more about this, I'm sure.

[It worked the same in the nursing home. If a resident yelled all the time, and then they stopped yelling for an extended period of time I noticed and went to check on them. Found a woman who had fallen and cut her forehead one day because she stopped yelling. I knew it wasn't normal and checked it out.

Fortunately, the people who run nursing homes are a little more caring than those who run a jail. Usually, there's never any thought about the possibility of someone escaping a holding cell as the entry/exit is usually pretty secure requiring special entry codes or 2nd person access. And there were times I noticed someone acting suspecious on camera, but turned out to be them just messing with us because they knew we were watching (that attention thing again).

But you're right in the fact that they could get something pass the search to hurt themselves or someone else with. In jailer training, they told my partner (a female) and place some items on her. Then they had some of the full time jailers (we were just part time) from a prision search her. After they'd complete there search, she pulled out (from various places) a handcuff key, a hypo needly, a small knife, and a razor blade. The told us that those who frequently have run ins with the law, actually get in the habit of doing this just to see if the cops will get it all.

But back to the topic. I look forward to hearing updates from the news.

I can personally testify to having cuffs left on in the holding cell. When I was in my more troubled years of crime and drugs before I turned 18, I had been arrested for burglary. I was cuffed of course, but also had my shoulder slammed into the door for supposedly resisting arrest when I attempted to adjust my stride to keep up witht he officer. It gave me some aches for a couple of weeks while I was in Juvee detention, but thats another story.

Anyways, they left my cuffs on in the holding cell, as well as my accomplices. It is standard procedure. I dotn know what airport holding cells are, but in District one of Tampa, it is nothing more than a small cage inside an empty room, and there is a camera focusing right on the cage.

I was only left alone emporarily because I defeated my cuffs twice and had to be hogtied, inside the cage. Well, what do you expect a frustrated rebellious youth is goign to do? I was stupid and regret everything that happend.

but yes, it is very standard procedure to leave the cuffs on even when they have isolated you into a small cage in an empty room with a camera focused on it.

My only theory on how she could have strangled herself is that, for whatever reason she either could not figure out how to bring them from under your legs, or she could not physically possibly do it. therefore she attempted the over the back of the ehad thing, with the very possibility that she was double jointed, and just got tangled in the process.

Frankly, It does not appear the police did anything wrong. everything that happened was according to procedure.

Now I do not know if airport holding cells have cameras, I hear that even some police departments do not have them in their holding cells. It is very possible there was no camera, not everyone does use them. they figure being isolated and restrained in a small cage removes most of the threat. If they become unruly, or tricky, they will be hogtied, as what happened to me.

If there is a camera, well it would be highly suspect if they do not turn in the footage to the attorney for use in the investigation, unless of coruse there is something very incriminating.

but unfrotunately, there just is not always a camera in the holding rooms. for instance, the holding cells at the Juvenile Assesment center (booking) do not have camera inside the holding areas. Thats just the way it is in some places.

I think the mod FredT hates me.He removed this same story when I posted it 2 sepperate times.He said"and where is the conspiracy in this story".Also telling me to ask Mirthfullme why he deleted because he could not tell me.And three u2us I get no respsonse.

Sorry to do that to your thread man but the fact that he lets someone else post the same exact thing is pretty frustrating.

I don't see how the hell a woman could "accidently" strangle herself.It was on purpose or they did it to her.You would obviously stop choking yourself.I don't see how you could contrort the cuffs with your arms to get it stuck in just the right spot to choke you to death.

Ok, the OP keeps ignoring people's questions as to the validity of the thread's title.

Where does it say she was beaten??????????

Also, the article says she was the daughter in law of a New York Labor official. I don't know, maybe I watch too many mob movies, but when I hear New York Labor, I just think about organized crime, labor unions, Jimmy Hoffa, stuff like that. Maybe it was a hit?

Yeah, i know....kind of out there theory, but it is a conspiracy website and much more credible of a theory than shapeshifting - don't ya think?

Originally posted by infamouskiller

On Saturday, Hill said investigators guessed that "Gotbaum had possibly tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, got tangled up in the process, and they ended up around her neck area."

Its not an asumption when its the offical police report.

Correct, when it is an official story it is CYA and cover up.

There is to much missing for me to know, but come on, they can do better then she strangled herself with her own handcuffs. Serious, that sounds nearly impossible, plus it would mean she was left alone for awhile, and that she was not chained to a location in cell like most waiting places that keep handcuffs on. Someone head locked her and it is a cover up is my guess.

On a side note, read the last paragraph she was from S Africa and could have easily been higher on watch list then normal person. I didn't here where she was trying to fly to, just that she missed flight.

This could even be worse where she upset the wrong person or something. She obviously was trying to say she was not a threat and was scared. That is how victums act. I give a small percent chance she was connected to something or somebody.



[edit on 1-10-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by closettrekkie
Ok, the OP keeps ignoring people's questions as to the validity of the thread's title.

Where does it say she was beaten??????????

Also, the article says she was the daughter in law of a New York Labor official. I don't know, maybe I watch too many mob movies, but when I hear New York Labor, I just think about organized crime, labor unions, Jimmy Hoffa, stuff like that. Maybe it was a hit?

Yeah, i know....kind of out there theory, but it is a conspiracy website and much more credible of a theory than shapeshifting - don't ya think?

Her mom was a NY public advocate.

She was disorderly after they cuffed her so onlookers claim she put up a bit of a struggle. The cuffs probably hurt her and she resisted them or something.

Could also be that she really was up to something illegal and the acting out was a fear response. I dunno. It all sounds very weird.

reply to post by closettrekkie

I have made an edit in the title, to reflect the title used in the CNN story, which was "Death after airport arrest"

Judging by your respones you are pro isreal pro war pro genocide even the mods.

I am scared what I see of my fellow man.

USA earth comming to your home soon.

Through torture and oppression NWO we love you.

please come to my house and shoot me in the head.