This topic originally spawned out of 'The bible, greatest lie ever told' forum.

This topic got me thinking.... In the great aspect of life, what side of human nature do you think seem's to be winning in this present time. The general goodness of people, (which sadly, if you look around, there is becoming few and few of these people), or what some people deem as 'evil'.

Can we have one without the other and still have a happy, co-existing socitey? Are we all able to be 'good' and forever be that way?

Or is life just like that, that you need to have bad things happen to you so you can reflect and realise the good times?

I hope this starts off a good discussion as I have my own idea's and opinions and would like to hear from other members and have their views aired. Thanks for your time

The Secret Truth

I think the majority of people are Good by default, its just we are all so wrapped up in looking after ourselves or our family that we barely have time to look out for others.

Some of Us do look out for others, even at the risk of getting screwed over by these people.

I don't think People are Born Bad , how can a newborn have evil thoughts?

Its the world and personal experiences that turn people to the darkside if the world was generally good maybe not so many would turn.

the reason you see so much evil is .. it gets a lot more press than Good does...u see good isn't exciting.


I think it seems more and more that people in positions of power are evil, this also is an illusion (mostly). You Cannot please all of the people all of the time.....yet.

Remember Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Good and Evil are two sides of the same coin. Evil teaches us things as well as good. In fact, desire for change is what causes motivation in the first place.

You have to define what is evil just to start this debate. Is it evil to have contempt for your fellow human beings, and value money more than life? The answer to that depends on who you ask. Evil people do not see themselfs as evil.



[edit on 27-9-2007 by Copernicus]

Yes, I totally agree.

But then that all depends on what society deem's 'Good'. I mean, some cultures expect you to have more than one with, whereas in others, they'd go nuts lol

Also, my philosophy lecturer made a good point about this also, he said that if a child was to be brought up by evil parents, would the child grow up thinking that what they are doing is in our sense of the word 'good', or would some form of morality that we may be born with, will kick in and he'll turn out different than his parents.

It's an intresting question, one which I have 'ponderd' over many a time lol

p.s i'll throw this idea into the mix also

If you were around at the time of Hitler's birth, and you had the option of killing him or letting him live, what would you do? Could you live with knowing that you had killed an innocent child (although he does become Hitler when he's older, but you know what i mean lol), or could you do it for the greater good?

[edit on 27-9-2007 by TheSecretTruth]

The Hitler question is a good one and my first reaction would be to kill. If I consider it a bit harder though, why should I 'lower myself' to kill this person when he has a life time of desicions to make in front of him to lead him to the point where he did all the things he did.

Firstly, if I don't kill him, knowing what i know, does that make me as guilty as him for not killing someone and breaking the same laws (albeit on a different scale)?

Secondly, we all know the terrible things that Hitler was responsible for but do we ever hear of the good things he may have done? I am sure he must have done something in his whole life that would be seen as genuinely 'good' - so would I also be wrong if I killed him for stopping that?

The answers to both of these questions assume that there is a 'scale' to goodness / badness. If the question was 'kill the guy who dinged my car in the car park' it would not have the same meaning but can we really put a scale on this?

I think our inability to put a scale on it means that we cannot say whether 'good' or 'bad' is winning. People are people, none of us are perfect but we are not inherently evil. We make decisions as we go through life, some 'good' and some 'bad' but we make them on the basis of our own internal moral code. When our moral code coincides with those around us, then it is 'good', often when it doesn't it is 'bad' (even if by others standards it could be good)

[edit on 27-9-2007 by EJHoover]

[edit on 27-9-2007 by EJHoover]

There is no winning and losing in good/evil. It is just choices we make. Either you choose to do something good, or you do something bad.
There are too many people to track in this world, and the people who do bad in a certain part of life, will do something good in another. So it all balances out, which is not good. Who cares about other people choices, just think about your own, and think about doing good ones.

Well, I suppose before Hitler done all those horrible things, he did help design and create the Volkswagen Beetle. (A car I absolutely hate for my own reasons, but that's neither here nor there lol).

And yes, I can see how there would have been things that effeced his life to ultimately make him turn out the way he was. He also believed that what he was doing was in fact 'God's work' and he was basically just doing his grand part. Not to say that it was right, because it clearly wasn't.

Just remember, best intentions paved the way to hell...

TheSecretTruth

You people have to understand that all city/state, past and present, systems are founded through lies and evil deeds.

So, we live in a world that is predicated towards evil because any city/state structure revolves around control of it's minions. When you try and control people, you are releasing "evil" because a suppressed mind will eventually lash out. This "lash out" on other suppressed minds result in advocating more control over the lash out-ors. This is done by throwing said lash out-ors in prison, killing them, or put the less dangerous lash out-ors on prescription drugs(meds).

The more you suppress the minions, the more you create a situation of absolute evil. The powers of the city/state system fear the general public because of a possible insurrection. So they suppress(lessening freedom) more, causing more evil.

Now you can live in a evil society and still be "good". This is the "slave mentality" which is what the majority of the world lives in today. You accept the world you live in and use religion as a guide to get though your physical existence because of your inability to grasp reality.

"Evil" or the "devil" if you are religious, will continue to flourish as long as the "slaves" continue being slaves.



[edit on 27-9-2007 by Conundrum04]

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Conundrum04]

I was thinking of this same topic the other night and i thought to myself.
There is always a balance in the world there is much good but we tend to focus on the evil.

For example the news comes on and headlines are SAS kill warehouse full of terrorists terrorists blow them selfs up with SAS. That would get the average person more interested then say a new born puppy comes into the world and loving family takes him in.

Point is we focus on the evil in the world but in turn we do more good as we learn about the evil that is happening.

Also evil and good is ultimately a point of view to some evil might mean one thing and to the other good means the evil of someone els.

Example being in carthage when people would sacrafise there children to ball
we consider this evil but to them would of been a honor.

The zen monk who sits on the line between the yin and the yang and chuckles at the "battle" supposedly being waged all around him.

Vas


[edit on 27-9-2007 by Vasilis Azoth]

You have supplied absolutely nothing to this thread with that...

Do you have any thoughts on what I wrote in my response above?

Originally posted by Conundrum04
You have supplied absolutely nothing to this thread with that...

Do you have any thoughts on what I wrote in my response above?

is that directed at me?

it depends on your own personal logic take for example a mans arrested for selling drugs the prosecution crucifies him saying hes been to jail before hes a burden on society ok now lets say the first time he sold drugs and got arrested he was a kid and was just trying to eat because his parents werent always there for him (alchoholics drug addicts what have you) and now that hes older even though this looks horrible to a jury what if he was selling drugs cause noone would hire him cause every time they do a background check they see hes a criminal but hes got kids to feed so what does he do he turns back to selling drugs but what other alternative does he have? let his kids starve?...let the state take his kids away from him where he wont be able to see them again? its like the problem i have with wars a neighbourhoods controlled by gangs so one day a man loses his cool and shoots one of them because hes tired of thier influence on his children or them always breaking into his house or always spraying tags on his back fence or all three...he goes to jail and is convicted of murder then on the other hand a man under orders from his country murders 15 20 people and is given a medal....i think there is no right or wrong just a legacy that people will judge you by when youre gone you either led d to a positive outcome regardless of your actions or a negative one regardless of your actions....one more example the iraq war a man decides to serve and die for his country which is very honorable and would be considered good but he leaves a country that is now torn by war and civil strife....sometimes you can do as many good things as you want but things will still be regarded as bad and sometimes you can do stuff that is bad but your ultimate outcome was for good....idonno and as far as whos winning look around youll see its obvious why is the top grossing movies always someone getting shot or shooting others why are the best selling video games where you have to kill people idonno what im trying to say exactly but thats the thoughts that came to me when i read this

Originally posted by syress


is that directed at me?

Yes it's directed at you. Come on now.

I would say evil's winning because it has limited the space that good occupies in most people's hearts. Most people within this society will only do good if it benefits them or "their own"(family, race, country, etc.). Very few will sacrifice of themselves to do what's right for people that aren't "their own", and in that way, evil is winning. Rather than helping people who could use a helping hand, people are too busy satisfying desires they need not satisfy.

Of course evil is winning. Just look at the world, hunger everywhere, greed within people, corruption permeates in every government throughout the world.
Atheism and apathy on the rise.

In USA, black and white no longer exists. You can't voice your opinion of someone, you call everything and everyone nice even though they annoy the heck out of you.


Evil wins.

It's as simple as anything.

If I deny you your fight to find out who you really are in this life, I would be a detriment towards your endevours.

The more suppressed we become, the more evil that is unleashed.

Originally posted by Conundrum04

Originally posted by syress


is that directed at me?

Yes it's directed at you. Come on now.

Ok hotshot what part of my post has nothing to do with the topic of good vs evil and who is winning. I stated my views on good and evil and you say they are not worthy?

Who are you to judge what is right and wrong in your post you complain people being minions because you believe that they are all to stupid to relies what is happening around them.

When the truth is that a large majority of people are smart and very ongoing with current affairs and see more then you give them credit for.

The only slave is you, a slave of your own ego. The simple fact is what you say about people being morons worshiping false gods,slaves are all proven wrong when you step outside and talk to your neighbor or friend or 9/10 people you encounter.

My suggestion to you is stop undermining people because there views don't suit your views and for a change of pace think outside of that box where you see everyone as a ape who follows there masters commands for money and pleasure, keep a open mind because only when a mind is open then it is truly free.


p.s How exactly are my views on good and evil not worthy of this post
when all you need to do is look back in time or once again speak to people you will find out that your evil might be different to there evil or your good might be there evil.

Originally posted by TheSecretTruth
If you were around at the time of Hitler's birth, and you had the option of killing him or letting him live, what would you do?
[edit on 27-9-2007 by TheSecretTruth]

I would pray for him, cast out the demon of darkness and make him a warrior of light, instead of the incarnate evil he became. It is unfortunate the person God called for this exact mission decided to go have a cup of coffee with friends instead...

The bible does say the saints will be losing the battle when Jesus returns. Since the bible was mentioned I thought I would source this

Revelation 13:4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

5There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

7It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

9If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

...

Revelations 1821Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.

22"And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;

23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.

24"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of (BN)all who have been slain on the earth."

God Bless


[edit on 28-9-2007 by Redge777]