Ahmadinejad Meets NY Rabbis, Receives Silver Grail As Sign Of Friendship

Ok, you totally lost me at Germany and Japan are occupied countries. You are far from the middle my friend. America has no control in what those countries say or do. Your whole post is basically saying America and Israel are the real evils of the world and are what is wrong with it today and in the past.

Did I sum it up right?

BTW you are not an American are you? You don't have a location, but I would bet not. Not that it really matters but that would put light to your interesting to say the least spin on world events.

Israel is still occupying Gaza. Israel is blocking aide from Arabs. Why do you try to blame Arabs for what Israel is doing?

Actually it is going to get worst...Israel is not a gentle nation when they have had enough. They are tired of the rockets and other attacks daily and so they are going to come down hard and very soon. Israel would help them and have tried, but the bottom line is Arabs hate Jews plan and simple, and just as you have said Arabs feel they have no right to the land they are on or whether they are a country.

They have helped. But they are not the ones occupying. Israel is.

And as I said they have the same rights to that land as Jewish Palestinians just as the Arab Palestinians have rights to Jordan. This is about as plain and simple as I can put it but you do not agree, and why do you keep saying a small hand full made it a country when the British split up the land 75% Arab and 25% Jewish there were 1.3 million Arabs and 650 thousand Jews. That is not a hand full my friend.

'just refugees'? After the war they were no longer refugees. They were exiled Palestinians that Israel refused to allow return, even in the face of a UN resolution calling for just that.

Ok this is a load of spin... are you saying the Jews would not let them leave? Just why the hell not? This just doesn't make any sense, but I guess now they do not want to leave because they want their own 30 by 7 mile country too. So let me ask why is that land the Arabs?

Because of Israeli racism and religious discrimination. All the jews and more were allowed to return.....

We look around the Arab countries and you say this about the Jew? Ok dude that is rich. Why not let all the Jews return? I don't understand this either. You got a deep hatred going there friend and I'm sure it doesn't stop with the Jews.

So what if Israel approved? The other people didn't.

What other people, the refugees? They had no place to go, and no Arab country would be willing to take them in, so Israel allowed them to stay. I don’t see Israel trying to expand anything they are just trying to protect their people.

The land that was taken in the 1967 Israeli Sneak Attack, Operation Focus?

Thats like Defending Saddam by saying he gave back Kuwait.

Well lets add in what the Arabs were doing before that first strike...

www.sixdaywar.org...

Egypt
"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements:
May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

Jordan
"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

Iraq
"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

Palestinians
"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Ahmed Shukairy, June 1, 1967

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Ahmed Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

Cont'

[edit on 26-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

Syria
Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967
"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

Others

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam

These are reasons for the first strike in the 6 day war and the Arabs lost again for the third attempt, and after each time the Arabs lost I didn't see Israel trying to wipe them off the map as the Arabs wanted to do.

Isn't it funny the Arabs are still saying it today ( or I guess it is just bad translations) except for Jordan who finally made peace with Israel.

But they did not have control over the Israeli occupational army, their borders, their airspace, their sea space, etc... They are still subject to Israeli military occupational law and courts.

Back to square one...Israel land...they are refugees under Israel laws.

the Hamas has taken over the government

They were elected to office, then Israel attacked the Democratically elected government!

Do they have a constitution? hehe I just had to say that.

Great, and if they just start acting like a government and not like terrorist everyone would be happy, but they maintain their power with extremist views. They could be a thriving community…but no they like to kill Jews and each other instead. This is kind of hard to argue against when they do it every day to themselves and Israel.


We are also talking about a 25 mile by 6 mile strip of land and to make that a country is a joke.

Mass ethnic cleansing? And why? So that Israel could have the land?

Ya sure why not? Move them out to the Arabs countries give them a 25 by 10 miles chunk of land in the huge country of Iran and let the Jew have their little slice. Not a bad idea.

The Arabs have tried to wipe Israel off the map three times and they will try again and loose again. It is funny that Israel didn’t just gobble up more land each war that they won. Why didn’t they? For they could be five times their size and have a ton of the oil. The reason they didn’t and don’t today is they are in a defensive struggle and are not the ones trying to invade and conquer.

My friend this is my last post on this for I really didn't want to go this indepth in the first place but your one sided slant eyed spin on things made me do it.



[edit on 26-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Xtrozero
whole post is basically saying America and Israel are the real evils of the world and are what is wrong with it today and in the past.

Did I sum it up right?

I said no such thing. America and Israel are doing many things that are wrong but they are not the only 'real evils' in the world. Its the actions of the governments that are evil, not the nations themselves.

BTW you are not an American are you? You don't have a location, but I would bet not. Not that it really matters but that would put light to your interesting to say the least spin on world events.

Born and raised in America. My family on my fathers side came to America not long after Independence, and not long after that on my mothers side.

Actually it is going to get worst...Israel is not a gentle nation when they have had enough. They are tired of the rockets and other attacks daily and so they are going to come down hard and very soon.

Israel is being attacked in retaliation for their attacks and for denying 4.5+ million people their freedom. And for all their other daily warcrimes.

Israel would help them and have tried,

This is an outright lie. Israel has no plans to help them do anything more than be 'cleansed' from the land.

but the bottom line is Arabs hate Jews plan and simple

They hate Zionism. Its because of what the Jews of Israel are doing to the Palestinians. They would feel the same if it was Christians, Hindu or any other groups. Note the first article of this thread, and the supposed subject of the thread. Those Rabbis offered a token of friendship the the Iranian president.

and just as you have said Arabs feel they have no right to the land they are on or whether they are a country.

I said nothing like that. They have every right to the land. It belonged to them before Israel invaded in a Sneak Attack back in 1967. There has been no annexation and no referendum.

The Palestinian Authority holds soverignty, not Israel. Israel is the occupier just like America is the occupier in Iraq.

And as I said they have the same rights to that land as Jewish Palestinians just as the Arab Palestinians have rights to Jordan.

How does Israel have any right to the West Bank and Gaza? They do not. It was never part of their nation. It was not given to them and the people living there are not giving it up.

This is about as plain and simple as I can put it but you do not agree, and why do you keep saying a small hand full made it a country when the British split up the land 75% Arab and 25% Jewish there were 1.3 million Arabs and 650 thousand Jews. That is not a hand full my friend.

When Palestine was divided it did not create Israel. That was 1928. It was 1948 where the Israeli Declaration of Independence was signed by a small group of Jews. You are confusing two different events. The British and the UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel other than dropping the pen by allowing the Mandate to expire.

Ok this is a load of spin... are you saying the Jews would not let them leave? Just why the hell not? This just doesn't make any sense,

Read it again. I said Israel would not allow them to RETURN. Those who fled in fear of their lives in 1948 were not allowed to return to Israel. They are refugees because of the Racist policies of Israel. All the Jews were allowed to return.

but I guess now they do not want to leave because they want their own 30 by 7 mile country too.

Gaza is just one of the occupier territories. The West Bank is far larger. Together they would be larger than many nations in the world.

So let me ask why is that land the Arabs?

Because they are there. Israel is the occupier. They have as much right to Gaza and the West Bank as America has to Iraq. The only way to make it their land, legally, is to annex.

We look around the Arab countries and you say this about the Jew? Ok dude that is rich.

I was not excusing anyone. Why do you change the subject? Do you deny that Israel is racist?

Why not let all the Jews return? I don't understand this either.

Return where? To Israel proper? I have no problem with that. Just give freedom to the Palestinians.

You got a deep hatred going there friend and I'm sure it doesn't stop with the Jews.

Equal rights is hatred?

What other people, the refugees?

Who you call Refugees were citizens of the previous state just like all the Jews and the only reason they were 'refugees' is because Israel refused to allow them to return.

They had no place to go,

They could have gone home, but Israel refused to allow it because of their racism.

and no Arab country would be willing to take them in,

No Arab country was going to be complicit in mass ethnic cleansing.

so Israel allowed them to stay.

The refugees from 1948 were not allowed to stay.

I don’t see Israel trying to expand anything they are just trying to protect their people.

You are blind then. Look at the path of the Wall. It is a huge land grab. If Israel wants peace and protection they should build the wall on their side of the border and withdraw the occupation forces.

Well lets add in what the Arabs were doing before that first strike...

When quoting outside sources please leave a link and do not paste more than 500 characters.

I notice that many of them were quotes years before the 1967 Israeli Sneak Attack.

Words........

There are always words. That does not excuse two generations of military occupation and denying freedom to 4.5+ million people.

Where else in the world today have so many people been subject to hostile military occupation and military courts for so long?

There is no where! It is the worst political situation in the world.

And you excuse it. How poor....

I'll just focus on this one statement since you are done.

It is funny that Israel didn’t just gobble up more land each war that they won. Why didn’t they?

What does it mean to 'gobble up more land'? It means to annex. Israel did this with the Golan Heights, Shebba Farms and Jerusalem.

But Israel had driven out almost all of the people from those areas other than Eastern Jerusalem. Which explains why they annexed those territories and not the West Bank and Gaza. If you annex territory you must accept the people living there as your own. Israel didn't want more Arab citizens. So they occupy and try to make life so bad that the people want to move.

You can bet your last dollar that if the non-Jewish population of the territories fled to anywhere else Israel would annex right away.

Because they want the land, not the people.

Interesting. It could all be show but perhaps it suggests that the current conflict of interest between Iran and Israel has much more to do with political issues then any religious or racial issues. People like to paint him as the second Hitler but if what he said is true then he may be far from it.

reply to post by KaneT


The Rabbis he met with are Anti-Zionist Jews. They believe that the Nation of Israel is a violation of Jewish Law. Jews are in exile until the Messiah comes and they are not to form their own nation before that time.

No Messiah = No Israel

Like many others in the world, they view Zionism as a threat to more than just the Arab victims. It is a threat to Jews themselves and world peace.

Before the Post WWI occupation Jews lived in relative peace around the Muslim world. A small population, but secure and nearly independent. After Israel was 'born' that all changed. It put Judaism and Islam on a collision course.

And why? Prophecy. Jews, along with many Christians, believe that the ancient nation of Israel will be reborn and the temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt. The problem is they must tear down the Third holiest site in Islam, Al Aqsa, in order to do this.

Unless they have the wrong site.....

Well lets add in what the Arabs were doing before that first strike...


There is a big problem with all of your translations. They never use the word Israel. They say Zionist entity or something like that.

What they wanted was an end to the racist hositle state that was imposed against their will. They wanted and end to the Palestinian exile.

You call them refugees, but if they are homeless because of a government decision then what they are is exiles. Israel elected to exile them!

Now, ending the Zionist entity does not mean all the Jews would be killed or exiled.

It means Regime Change. Thats not so bad is it, to change a repressive racist regime?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

www.nypost.com...

Think that article was biased a little?
Good grief...that NY Post piece was pretty nasty write up.

I had no idea he met with any rabbis in NY though so thanks for sharing, I'll look more into this.

reply to post by lee anoma


They only represent a tiny minority of Jews, but it goes to the point.

It is Zionism that Iran opposes, not Judaism.

And that would include Christian Zionists who far outnumber the Jewish ones.

Originally posted by Malichai

I would like to see the current state evolve into one with a constitution, a bill of rights that includes equal rights for all, and defined borders.

While I would take issue with your blanket condemnation of Zionism as simply being painted with too broad a brush, I do agree one hundred percent with your statement quoted above. The State of Israel should borrow the US Constitution as a template and develop one that guarantees the rights of Ethiopian Jews, Sephardim, the Druze, the Baha'i, Arab Christian Israelis, Arab Muslim Israelis as well as the Ashkenazim.

Peace treaties and defined borders go hand in hand in my opinion; without the one, the other cannot be achieved.

[edit on 26/9/07 by Pellevoisin]