feel like talking about snipers?

Makes me laugh when I read about US snipers getting match grade ammunition, never mind hand loading! In the British Army, outside UKSF circles we use what is referred to as Green Spot ammo. This is essentially standard 7.62mm ammo that comes off the same press as machine-gun rounds.

The first 5000 rounds from a new bullet press are the most accurate as there are less fluctuations in the bullet mould that develop over time. These first 5000 rounds are marked with a green spot and are designated for sniper ammo. There are no special loadings or bullet designs. They are simply the first 5000rds of standard ball ammo to come off the press.

It is quite surprising to see the standard of marksmanship that is possible with these rounds fired from a decent and dedicated weapon, such as our L96. Hits at 1000m are achievable if the firer does his part. Outside this range, 7.62mm looses too much power and is too easily affected by environmental factors to be of any consistant use. Anyway, a decent sniper will easily get to within 1000m of any realistic target.

Remember, not all good shots are snipers, but all snipers have to be good shots!

In case you're wondering, I'm not a qualified sniper. I attempted the course but failed on the stalk. I am however a qualified Sharpshooter. This is a trade in the British Army that uses a sniper rifle as a company level asset to provide precision fire against point targets at ranges out to 1000m. We patrol as part of the company as additions to some standard infantry sections. There is no requirement for us to be able to stalk, build hides or any such thing, but we do have to be able to judge distance, observe and shoot to the same degree as a trained sniper. Because of my current employment within the company I'm not used in this role at present. I do miss it though!

[edit on 26-9-2007 by PaddyInf]

reply to post by PaddyInf


The Canadian snipers who acheived the longest confirmed kills in Afghanistan, did so when they switched to the match ammo that the US snipers had available.

Reading a sniper book right now. 13 Cent Killers, The 5th Marine Snipers in Vietnam. John J. Culbertson

[edit on 26-9-2007 by on_yur_6]

reply to post by BlueRaja


Lucky lads. Only wish that we had the option in 7.62mm. We are in the process of introducing a .338 Lapua Magnum version of the L96 AW, which we call the L115 Long Range, Large Calibre Rifle (LRLCR). They are already in use in limited numbers in some units and have been for some time, but we are hoping to switch all weapons to the .338LM version within the next couple of years.

The .338LM round is an ideal compromise between the long range of the .50BMG but without the need for a large, heavy weapon system. The L115 is only a couple of inches longer than the L96, but adds at least 500m to the range.

Obviously the .338 does not have the terminal ballistics of the .50, but there is a .50 Accuracy International weapon in service with the Brits (can't remember the L designation off hand). They are mostly used for point detonation of explosive devices and anti-vehicle roles. However, there were reports of it being used by a certain member of the SBS in Iraq in 2004 for anti-personnel taskings.

[edit on 26-9-2007 by PaddyInf]

Originally posted by PaddyInf
However, there were reports of it being used by a certain member of the SBS in Iraq in 2004 for anti-personnel taskings.

Never! He was using it to deny the enemy the use of intact uniforms.

"Sorry, Captain, I was shooting at his belt buckle and got him by mistake"

Apparently his first shot was at a range of 1700m against an armed insurgent on the top of a buidling. It was fired from the sitting supported position from the top of a two-story building. No ranging shots were fired. The round struck the bad boys' weapon, passed through it and then virtually disintigrated the poor buggers' chest. Not a bad shot by anyones' standards. He continued to engage targets at this range and further for two days solid. Scared the bejesus out of the local OMS.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by PaddyInf]

Cant vouch for sniping, but myself and my grandfather were pro Roo, Fox shooters for a number of years, shooting for skins and meat the aim of the game was head shooting, anything else caused to much bruising to the carcass and therefore devalued the meat.
Weapons of choice were a .243 and a .17.
We spent much time improving the overall accuracy of these weapons, from memory when we first purchased the .17 we spent nearly a month playing with loads until we were happy with its performance.

As was stated earlier by someone else each weapon must be treated as an individual and no two weapons are ever the same.
For the accuracy of our weapons we custom loaded our own rounds, this required the projectile to be within tight weight limits, the grainage was always exact and also the the "necking" of the shell and positioning of the round within the shell (jump distance,shell to rifling), this last point was considered sancrosanct and every barrell we had varied considerably in this respect.

Two other areas were quite simple the stock was to have the same specific clearance from the barrell at all times (from memory 3 sheets of A4 paper were used for this purpose).

The last area we noticed having a significant affect on accuracy was how many rounds we could fire before cleaning was required, the .17 was a shocker, any more than 3 rounds and it went to sh@!#t, the .243 could manage 5 before being significantly affected.

Using fox shooting as an example all hunting was done at night and they were picked out at long range by the colour of there eyes compared to native wildlife, all you could see were two beady eyes glowing in the darkness and the objective was to put the bullet between them as they were the only real reference point you had, with this in mind the target size you were aiming for was slightly larger than a box of matches.

The .17 we used for anything up to 300 yards, within this range if you missed it was your fault, but being a light albeit high velocity round beyond 300 yards its accuracy diminished rapidly and so for longer range shooting we utilized the .243 out to 500 yards for matchbox accuracy.

While never having had the .17 on an actual range so to speak we have had the .243 at a local range and I have hit an 8x8 inch target at 800 yards hitting 6 out of 7. An 8x8 inch target isnt much larger than an adult head either.

All this is done without taking any account of windage and only educated guessing on bullet drop at extreme ranges (eg..243 at 800)

Considering the calibre weapons those boys use and there level of training in ballistics it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest for them to be hitting targets at 2000 metres.