The topic for this debate is "For the health and security of all people a DNA database should be set up in each country."

NephraTari will be arguing for this proposition and will open the debate.
LOBO will argue against this proposition.

Each debator will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

No post will be longer than 800 words and in the case of the closing statement no longer than 500 words. In the event of a debator posting more than the stated word limit then the excess words will be deleted by me from the bottom. Credits or references at the bottom count as part of the post.

Editing is Strictly forbidden.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements only one image or link may be included in any post. Opening and Closing statement must not carry either images or links.

As a guide responses should be made within 18 hours. However if the debate is moving forward then I have a relaxed attitude to this.

The winner will receive 1000 ATS points the loser (on condition of completion) will receive 500 ATS points. This on top of generous points allocation for Debate forum posts.

The debate will be judged by an anonymous and independant judging panel after the closing statements. Results and comments will be posted when the decision has been made.

This debate is now open, good luck.

[Edited on 18-1-2004 by Kano]

I would like to start by thanking Kano an the judges for allowing me once again to challenge myself and my views by participating in another debate.
To my opponent LOBO I look forward to a very exciting and challenging debate.. best of luck to you.

Without further ado let us address the topic of this debate...

For the health and security of all people a DNA database should be set up in each country.

A DNA database in every country would not only be beneficial to the detecting health issues around the world but also in solving crimes and more importantly preventing innocent people from being unjustly incarcerated for those crimes. In addition to all of this it would also prevent fugitives from evading prosecution by skipping the country because their DNA data can be transfered to other databases around the world on alert status. It will revolutionize crime fighting as we know it for the betterment of all mankind.

First of all, I would like to wish my fellow debater, NephraTari, the best of luck.

A DNA database in every country would, on the surface, seem to be an excellent idea for tracking criminals and locating lost family members, identifying dead bodies, etc. However, as with all things that start out as "good", the governments of the world would twist, mutiliate and otherwise corrupt the system, and use it for "not-so-good" purposes, tracking an individual for no particular reason, violating more freedoms than are already being violated, and knowing more than they need to know. The world governments already have too much control, without us granting them more. The question to ask here is: "How much does one want the Government to know about the individual?"

Originally posted by LOBO
violating more freedoms than are already being violated, and knowing more than they need to know.
*snip*
"How much does one want the Government to know about the individual?"

Interesting points LOBO to address your first point I honestly cannot see how this is a violation of our freedoms. To collect together a database of dna is hardly more freedom violating than fingerprinting.. only this is a lot more detailed and can be of greater use.

Now to address your second point.. again I fail to see how gathering ones DNA is really going to tell them anything about a persons private life besides their health problems per say.

I hold with my position that this can only be a benefit to mankind. I do not see an invasion of privacy or an infringement of freedom from allowing them to collect and store a database of our DNA for the reasons that are proposed.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I honestly cannot see how this is a violation of our freedoms. To collect together a database of dna is hardly more freedom violating than fingerprinting.

A nice point; however, on the same note, some still fail to see how the Patriot Acts are violations of American freedoms. Also, the fingerprinting system also has problems - "planting" prints on "evidence" to incriminate an innocent person, for example. Somewhere down the line, I'm sure a DNA database would become corrupted - just as the system in "Minority Report" became corrupted, and what's more, the "MR" system was more advanced, and less likely for error. All based on a film, of course, but I still feel it is a valid point.

I fail to see how gathering ones DNA is really going to tell them anything about a persons private life besides their health problems per say.

Indeed. The same can be said for Social Security, however. Or license plates. Or driver's licenses. Or any number of other things. Just another way to know one more thing about a person; just another means to control. While such a system can be used to benefit, they can - and almost undoubtedly would - also be used for non-beneficial purposes, as well.

Originally posted by LOBO
A nice point; however, on the same note, some still fail to see how the Patriot Acts are violations of American freedoms.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the patriot act. Once you draw a correlation like this I would appreciate an explanation of how the two are related.

Originally posted by LOBO Also, the fingerprinting system also has problems - "planting" prints on "evidence" to incriminate an innocent person, for example. Somewhere down the line, I'm sure a DNA database would become corrupted - just as the system in "Minority Report" became corrupted, and what's more, the "MR" system was more advanced, and less likely for error. All based on a film, of course, but I still feel it is a valid point.

Once again I do not see how you can compare the two. If anything DNA will be a benefit in that area too.
planting fingerprints will no longer work... and having a sample of someones dna in any form does not currently allow it to be planted at a crime scene.. you cannot create hair with that dna or blood if all you have is the data. It makes it identifiable yes... but it does NOT allow one to create items with identical dna that can be planted. Especially in rape cases this would be a major deterant.

Originally posted by LOBOIndeed. The same can be said for Social Security, however. Or license plates. Or driver's licenses. Or any number of other things. Just another way to know one more thing about a person; just another means to control. While such a system can be used to benefit, they can - and almost undoubtedly would - also be used for non-beneficial purposes, as well.

I am again interested in an example of how you think this can be used in a negative way to control the population. I have given examples of ways that it will be beneficial.. You have in return stated concerns but given no examples of situations that would make those concerns legitimate to consider.

LOBO has yielded. NephraTari wins.

Congratulations to Neph