The only true religion is the one I follow!

Ok, I have looked around ATS etc for some time and still cannot find a board for Hindu(ism), Muslim(ism), Catholic(ism) etc(ism). I would venture to say that that is a good thing. There is also no board or forum that says “If you are Jewish this is your board” or “if you are Buddhist this is your board”.

However, there IS a board that concerns Conspiracies in Religion. Why do we use this board/forum to bash other religions?? I believe we all need to be happy following whatever religion we feel we want to follow. If it is Catholicism then let me follow that, if it is Satanism let me follow that, if it is Buddhism let me follow that.

Why do we feel it so necessary to bash others and their beliefs and religions. We no longer live in the Stone Age or Renaissance or Crusades so why does one feel the need to bash another’s religions? What does it really have to do with Conspiracies in Religion? What is a Conspiracy?

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

I guess it depends on which dictionary one uses as there may be slightly different definitions. However, not much of what is posted ends up in actual or total conspiracy discussion based on the original OP post. Why does one continually have to bash another’s religion? Why does anyone have to come to ATS and have to defend their religion? This is not a discussion that should ever need to take place. It may be cool to learn about another’s beliefs and leave it at that rather than always having to be the one who is “right”. Let’s agree that NO one is right and EVERYONE is right.

If there is a Conspiracy in Religion to be discussed let’s discuss or debate THAT conspiracy for what it is and not take it personally – sometimes difficult. Look at it as a thread and a topic out there for discussion. It doesn’t help anyone to knock another’s religion; it gets the thread no further than when it started if it goes this way.

Is it the human need to always be right? Do we even understand, half the time, what is being argued? I believe unless we have spent an equal number of years studying the different religions we cannot sit and judge another. Ok I guess some will be considering debating that since we have the internet etc.

Regardless of what religion I am, who am I (we) to say another is wrong even if it is Satanism? I may be the one who is wrong. We do not need to understand why one would worship who they do but just accept it as “one of those things”. I do not have to justify who I follow or believe in though I sometimes end up doing that but no one should have to constantly defend their beliefs in each and every post that has something to do with religion.

Do we care what effect our words have on another? One word that is wrongly placed could have dire consequences which we do not see or feel. Do we care what affect we have on the life of another? Do we consider the feelings of another? Do we perhaps neglect to acknowledge we are all different and it takes all sorts to make up this world we are in. Sometimes your best friends are the ones you know least about politically and religiously because you do not know enough to judge. One of my best friends, for the last 22 years, is someone I have no idea about in terms of what religion he belongs too or what party he votes for – it is just NOT that important at all.

Ok I am not preaching just giving an opinion of what I have witnessed. I am not innocent as I may have had more to say that I ever replied with in type and that is perhaps also wrong but do we think we will ever just stick to the subject of a thread without it, by page 2, becoming a war between Catholics, Atheists, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans etc etc etc and end up stating how bad “religion X” really is? Is that really important to us to be able to live our lives to the best we can?

Ok, flame me now.

Originally posted by shearder
Why do we feel it so necessary to bash others and their beliefs and religions. We no longer live in the Stone Age or Renaissance or Crusades so why does one feel the need to bash another’s religions? What does it really have to do with Conspiracies in Religion? What is a Conspiracy?

Oh but we do still live in the stone Age
Its the 'ego' the need to be one up or right that fuels what you talk about.
So until that is put in check there will always be someone trying to push their idea on someone else.

Also it is of interest to note that many of the threads of recent days on the conspiracy in religion have nothing at all to do with conspiracy...Im surprised its not on BTS board - the mods usually are a lot faster at moving threads that have no relevance to conspiracy in religion...guess they felt they were in a battle that couldnt be won.

anyway...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dAlen
Oh but we do still live in the stone Age

Also it is of interest to note that many of the threads of recent days on the conspiracy in religion have nothing at all to do with conspiracy...Im surprised its not on BTS board

Yeah i think you may be right wrt the stone age!

I have noted that - including other recent threads - this is the reason i post this.

Take care.

I have to agree with you shearder that there should not be boards based on what belief system you follow and I welcome that.

Some followers of any belief system will allways use any opportunity to promote and put the view of their belief system across as being the best or only one we should all follow. And this will happen on ATS as we are a reflection of the wider world, and again, I welcome the this.

The mods have a hard enough job, so I feel it is up to all of us to highlight to the mods and within a thread if we feel it is going off topic or the arguement is being recycled to how's belief system is better.

And lets face it, if someone attacks something we believe in, almost all of us will attack back. Take for example " was Jesus married?" (And no this is not the place to discuss or defend this). I have friends who believe the bible is the word of God and that Jesus was not married. when I have decided to challenged them on their beliefs (not often as I value their frienship more) they are very forceful in their defending their beliefs. I am hard on people I know trying to convert me to their belief system. As soon as I realise what is going on, I cut them off. If they continue, then they are not worth being friends with.

My belief system is just that, my belief system. It is what I believe and what gives me comfort.

I am more than happy to DISCUSS any conspiracy around religion. Like many, I have been exposed more than one belief system, and have taken bits from multiple belief systems.

For me, it is very easy to say tolerate each and every belief system, but I know there are belief systems in the world today that I would not defend and if they disappeared tomorrow, I would not be unhappy. But I would defend the right to believe in a belief system and both question and be questioned on that belief system.

It is sad that today people are still die because of their belief system and would agree with both shearder and dAlen we have not come very far since the stone age on tolerance of each others belief systems.

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by shearder
Why do we feel it so necessary to bash others and their beliefs and religions. We no longer live in the Stone Age or Renaissance or Crusades so why does one feel the need to bash another’s religions? What does it really have to do with Conspiracies in Religion? What is a Conspiracy?

Oh but we do still live in the stone Age

Its the 'ego' the need to be one up or right that fuels what you talk about.
So until that is put in check there will always be someone trying to push their idea on someone else.

Also it is of interest to note that many of the threads of recent days on the conspiracy in religion have nothing at all to do with conspiracy...Im surprised its not on BTS board - the mods usually are a lot faster at moving threads that have no relevance to conspiracy in religion...guess they felt they were in a battle that couldnt be won.

anyway...

Peace

dAlen

Lord Dalen,
I agree with you whole heartedly on the point of ego.

I asked the same questions to myself about the posts being somewhat irrelevant to conspiracies. However, I believe that the debate between different belief systems (including science and atheism) is probably the greatest conspiracy of our times, primarly because everyone is in on it.

There is a lot of cruft that flys back and forth, however I try to inject a gadfly nature in the mix to shake it up a bit.

Over the last few days I have noticed a general turn in the overall nature of the postings too. The amount of back and forth has started to dwindle a bit, and the amount of people coming from the place of "There is no objective truth, except for what you believe, and thats fine" has increased.

I for one enjoy this because it gives me a chance to hone my debating skills with people who feel everyone else is a fool except them.

This post does bring up a really good point. I would really like to see more conspiracies concerning other religions. Personally I don't take religion seriously. I just think religion is man made, and therefore a tool of sorts to worship the created vs. the creator. But alas, I digress. I really can't say I know much about other religions, and it would be great to learn something about them through either ATS or BTS. Thanks for pointing this out.

Originally posted by hammerhead1791
This post does bring up a really good point. I would really like to see more conspiracies concerning other religions. Personally I don't take religion seriously. I just think religion is man made, and therefore a tool of sorts to worship the created vs. the creator. But alas, I digress. I really can't say I know much about other religions, and it would be great to learn something about them through either ATS or BTS. Thanks for pointing this out.

On this board, because everything is suspect, I think a relgious conspiracy just doesn't fly. Mainly because religion itself is seen as so dubious, that a conspiracy about it has no real bearing, except to those who are adherents of that religion. Maybe if you could confine it to only those of a particular affiliation you could get away with it.

It would probably fly better in a church than in an open forum. In a Church 99% of the people there have some sort of belief in that religion. So you can work within at least a theological model.

But here, there are no boundaries, and no expectation of the beliefs being followed.

Any conspiracy is a good thing. I enjoy them. I don’t think discussing the theology of a doctrine is the point. Unless, that doctrine is in some way trying to control. Some say there are doctrines out there that do that very thing.

I don’t have a clue how many religious doctrines there are out there in the world, but I am sure they all serve a purpose to someone. I am also sure that there are folks in whatever religious doctrine, who is questioning that belief system, and trying to figure out how that belief affects them negatively.

The world is a big place, and full of diversity. There is a lot of conspiracy food to be had.

I think all you guys above have made valid points. We should not point out others faults with their religion/s but as and when the need arises we can and should debate that which we feel strongest about but not from a personal view point but from an objective and value add position.

I have been guilty in the past of taking somethings personally and it has brought me none the closer to any sort of truth/outcome.

I also agree with what Quazga has said

It would probably fly better in a church than in an open forum. In a Church 99% of the people there have some sort of belief in that religion. So you can work within at least a theological model.

I 100% agree with discussing Conspiracies in religion but to discuss the religion itself should remain a separate issue and, rightly so, should be kept for a church discussion and not ATS because in that sort of environment you have an understanding of the same or similar religion. Also, I for one could not really stand up and trash AS AN EXAMPLE Hinduism because i don't really have a clue about that religion so who am i to pick up a news paper or watch the news and I am suddenly the chosen one who will eradicate the earth of these wrongful religions.

Yes, the Mods do an amazing job and we really need to use the system for what it was designed at times and bring these issues to their attention OR we will just be blowing off steam in these sorts of threads.

As hammerhead1791 also stated, it will be cool to learn about another's religion. Perhaps that's a lesson we need to set for ourselves - learn about another religion. NOT to necessarily follow but to deny ignorance!!

We actually live in such a diverse world with so many cultures but we are so personally restrained by always having to be right that we let the opportunities for (self) enlightenment pass us by.

Originally posted by shearder
We actually live in such a diverse world with so many cultures but we are so personally restrained by always having to be right that we let the opportunities for (self) enlightenment pass us by.

Very well said. That is the point isn't it. To educate ourselves to a point to where no one can pull the wool over our eyes.

[edit on 8/14/2007 by hammerhead1791]

Originally posted by hammerhead1791
Very well said. That is the point isn't it. To educate ourselves to a point to where no one can pull the wool over our eyes.

Absolutely. Like John Lennon's song says "give peace a chance". hehehe

There is so much we can perhaps learn from one another without having to take an impersonal trip to the library or the internet. We are able to gather personal feedback and info direct from the relevant people instead of flaming them. We need to keep this community clean because it is probably the best site i have been to in 13 years.

I agree 100% that a person has the right to choose what religion, if any, they want to believe. Freedom to do so, most would agree, is a basic human right.
However in doing so, some choose religions that require the follower to share his beliefs with others, to testify, evangelize, bear witness, proselytize...ect. That’s what rubs so many the wrong way.

And yet how can we on the one hand state that the practice of their religion is a basic human right but then demand that they do not carry out this particular aspect of their faith because it annoys us or aggravates us.

Here is where I think, the true meaning of tolerance comes into play. A polite refusal is usually all that is required to end an unwanted conversation with someone who desired to share what they believe to the truth. No Mormon. or Jehovah's Witness , or Baptist has ever threatened my life because I did not believe as they do.
They may be persistent, but I have also had Atheists who were just as fervent in their desire to convince me that there is no God.

And keep in mind that many welcome such conversation regarding such matters. All should be able to choose what religion to practice but their decision should be an informed one, based on knowledge instead of merely tradition.

I think of the millions in pre-WWII Japan who believed that the Emperor was divine, God in the flesh, and so willingly sacrificed their lives for him. Their belief was not based on knowledge, just tradition.

Case in point, my mother was raised a Catholic but left that religion after doing her own personal research into its history & origin of its customs, The desire to start her research was sparked by a conversation with a Non Catholic who wanted to share their beliefs. My Father attended the Church of Christ. He too left after many lengthy discussions with members of a different religion who pointed out that some of their teaching conflicted with the scriptures.

The point is that their decision to change religions was sparked by the action of others, who encouraged them to question what they believed and prove to themselves whether it was right or wrong. The choice was theirs. But it might not have been made if their belief system was not challenged, if they were not encouraged to take the time to research, and educate themselves.

Honest discussion is invaluable when it comes to educating ourselves and acquiring knowledge. Humility is also needed if one is going to be willing to benefit from new ideas. That’s where I think debates fall short. In the multitude of debates I have witnessed here on ATS & in real life. I rarely see anyone willing to concede defeat and humbly admit they were wrong. Rather I see them circling the wagons so to speak and ignore any point that doesn't fit with their pre-conceived notions.

I believe the flaws in religions, their beliefs & their leaders need to be addressed. People need to be able to make informed decisions.

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Sparky63]

reply to post by shearder


i dont think you will find too many conspiracies involving budist or hindus. because those religions are more about philosophy and how to live your life. idk anything about either but they seem more peaceful then christianity and islam because they have more then one god.

Originally posted by Quazga
On this board, because everything is suspect, I think a relgious conspiracy just doesn't fly. Mainly because religion itself is seen as so dubious, that a conspiracy about it has no real bearing, except to those who are adherents of that religion. Maybe if you could confine it to only those of a particular affiliation you could get away with it.

It would probably fly better in a church than in an open forum. In a Church 99% of the people there have some sort of belief in that religion. So you can work within at least a theological model.

But here, there are no boundaries, and no expectation of the beliefs being followed.

I see little different between all the religions and most theories on ATS that are viewed as fact.

As example; John Lear’s Soul Catcher on the moon or the 1300 plus posts about Criss Angel I see both are primary based on faith and both are about the desire of the human psyche for an afterlife or something more than just birth from nothing and then back into nothing at death.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I see a big difference.
How many for example would be willing to die for their beliefs in a soul catcher on the moon, or that aliens are visiting the earth, or that Chris Angel is not just a talented illusionist.

I might be wrong, if so I stand corrected. But I have never met anyone who was willing to do so.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I see a big difference.
How many for example would be willing to die for their beliefs in a soul catcher on the moon, or that aliens are visiting the earth, or that Chris Angel is not just a talented illusionist.

I might be wrong, if so I stand corrected. But I have never met anyone who was willing to do so.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Sparky63]

Give them a few 1000 years and you might find millions that would, but you do have a point.

I was looking at more in they both fulfill the need of humans to believe that there is more to our mortal life on earth.


[edit on 29-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

I agree. But it I think its largely driven by those things we call "leaders" feeding off classic human failings. After all it is easier to control a slightly smaller multitude with an perceived enemy than it is to control everyone.