A bit young for religion?

I was put into a church at a very young age. And all it did was make me grow up into a man who really sees the churches for what they really are!
Its the roots of evil that love to get young fresh minds and manipulate them with scary stories!
Here the last few days Ive been on this topic, and still seems to get me no where. Preists can abuse young boys and molest them, and still people send their children to them. Im not saying all preists do this, however many have and its something that should be well noted.
Children need to be protected from this, and when they are ready they can make their own choice of what they want to belive!
After all was said and done, my family feels very guilty for what happened. And even more so that he still is the preacher in the same church doing the same things. They wont touch him, as he is a Man of God and would never hurt a child. pffff! They are the true evils in my eyes!

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Hmm, well I'm too ignorant regarding the second to even comment, however as far as the Atheist/Evolutionist, or as one so brilliantly stated one time, the "violently blind"

You seem to be equivocating atheism and evolution. You should tell the Likes of Ken Miller about this, I'm sure he and the millions of theistic evolutionists would like to know they are actually atheists.

Might save them god-bothering and wasting all that valuable time during which they could be eating babies.

Might save them god-bothering and wasting all that valuable time during which they could be eating babies.

Oh.. You mean like how Fred Phelps puts it.. They are going to eat your babies!!!
He has been teaching his grandchildren since birth to Hate, and to bring the hate so they may be hated even more.
Im not sure what side you are on here. But I sertinly hope your not one of those Phelps followers, or just simply making a point how bad Phelps is saying that people are going to eat your babies...

Originally posted by zysin5
Im not sure what side you are on here. But I sertinly hope your not one of those Phelps followers, or just simply making a point how bad Phelps is saying that people are going to eat your babies...

I'm an atheist who readily accepts evilution as a valid and reliable model.

I've had to cut down on the babies though, not good for my cholesterol level

[edit on 25-7-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
I'm sure he and the millions of theistic evolutionists would like to know they are actually atheists.

Either they are atheists playing a part, or they have made a god up between their ears that doesn't exist.

Why would one support a tale that is totally against the creator and then with their lips claim to believe in him?

Now you are one bright individual. Surely you have reasoning enough to see through that garbage.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Why would one support a tale that is totally against the creator and then with their lips claim to believe in him?

Actually before the LORD gave me sight/saved me. I found myself making such statements out of flat out ignorance/memory of garbage I was fed at school about certain things being "millions of years old" or "evolving" or the like.

I believed that GOD existed then yes, but I didn't a bit more know him than anything.

So yea, out of blind ignorance, one could hold such a position. If they actually know him, there is absolutely no way they could support such garbage long. The spirit wouldn't allow it.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Why would one support a tale that is totally against the creator and then with their lips claim to believe in him?

The theory of evolution says nothing about a creator. It doesn't say there is one, it doesn't say there isn't. Lets say it's agnostic

What the evidence does say is that the diversity of life on earth is the result of descent with modification over geological timescales.

Originally posted by Corum
Kids being brainwashed with religion from age 3 in schools/playgroups e.t.c sounds to me like the church wanting to make sure that people 'believe' blindly by the time they reach adulthood. Wouldn't it be fairer to let our kids reach at least say...10yrs old before they're taught the bible e.t.c? At this age (10) at least they can think for themselves more and it would be giving them a choice as to whether to believe or not.

It just seems wrong to me yet it's so widely accepted that no one seems to question it. How can it be justified? (I don't ask in malice)

I'd rather have my kids taught from an early age about God the pope, jesus etc.

As aposed to how to make urself into a suicide bomber in 3 easy steps.

Please, the first books in America given to students, such as the New England Primer were only about God and the Lord.
Followed by learning Greek and Latin in upper grades. Would you consider how much better those students had it? Thank God for America.

Originally posted by melatonin
The theory of evolution says nothing about a creator.

Sure it does. If something evolves it was created by/from whatever it evolved from. Evolution says the creator is everything. Everything created itself. Whatever "everything" was in the "beginning". Fits nicely with "mother earth" worship doesn't it? Ever think about that?

It definitely teaches a creator. One who doesn't exist. Made up in the minds of men, doing everything they can to be independent* from GOD. Not knowing that it is HE that gives and takes away the very breath in their lungs.


[edit on 26-7-2007 by WiseSheep]

Ignoring, again, the spiteful and arrogant 'non-believers' of Faith, (And reminding myself too, that the Faithful have a fair share), here is my answer.

They are not being brainwashed. This is the truth to the parent. Many religions rely on your adherence or faithfulness to that religion for your salvation or renewal in someway or another. So doesn't it make sense that a parent would want to teach their child to follow their scriptures and beliefs?

Furthermore, even a ten year-old is not developed in anyway for a belief in the spiritual. But, I think, it is important they have a grasp of the spiritual before evaluating themselves and their beliefs.

If the child is intelligent, he will consider and question his religion. It is in human nature to do so. Some find solace, some move on.

And, for future reference, in order to not 'ask in malice', do not call it brainwashing.

Originally posted by Iblis
And, for future reference, in order to not 'ask in malice', do not call it brainwashing.

Why not call a duck a duck?

brain·wash·ing /ˈbreɪnˌwɒʃɪŋ, -ˌwɔʃɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, esp. through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.
2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials.
3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences.

By the very definition of brainwashing, it is brainwashing.

Because God knows people do not think for themselves.

Teaching someone something, especially in a setting so inexplicably boring as Sunday School is not brainwashing.

After all, do we brain-wash people at school to think the 'crap' our public system teaches is true? Apparently not, since I doubt everyone here was home-schooled.

Originally posted by Iblis
After all, do we brain-wash people at school to think the 'crap' our public system teaches is true? Apparently not, since I doubt everyone here was home-schooled.

I'd say yes.

in·doc·tri·nate /ɪnˈdɒktrəˌneɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-dok-truh-neyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing.
1. to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
2. to teach or inculcate.
3. to imbue with learning.

I know it's semantics, but.

Read the first one though. Sure sounds like religeous teaching to me. But that's just my opinion.

[edit on 7/26/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Evolution says the creator is everything. Everything created itself. Whatever "everything" was in the "beginning". Fits nicely with "mother earth" worship doesn't it? Ever think about that?

It definitely teaches a creator. One who doesn't exist. Made up in the minds of men, doing everything they can to be independent* from GOD. Not knowing that it is HE that gives and takes away the very breath in their lungs.

WiseSheep, it seems you are not wise enough to understand the theory of evolution

It teaches no such thing. All the ToE states is that life evolved over time from a common ancestor. It might restrict the myths surrounding people's magic men, but it does not rule out such magic men.

For example, an invisible magic man from dimension 11 could have created the first organism and all life evolved over billions of years from that. Maybe this magic man plays with his evolving creation from time to time.

Not my cup of tea, but some people are happy to accept such an idea.

Originally posted by melatonin
WiseSheep, it seems you are not wise enough to understand the theory of evolution

Perhaps.

Originally posted by melatonin
All the ToE states is that life evolved over time from a common ancestor. It might restrict the myths surrounding people's magic men, but it does not rule out such magic men.

Aren't you doing a repeat of precisely what I said?

Originally posted by melatonin
Not my cup of tea, but some people are happy to accept such an idea.

Ahh, but forget the magic man because he doesn't exist in the evolution and myths are useless.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Aren't you doing a repeat of precisely what I said?

Not at all, because I'm saying that when you stated this:

It definitely teaches a creator. One who doesn't exist

You are misinterpreting what ToE can say. Which you go on to do again, here

Ahh, but forget the magic man because he doesn't exist in the evolution and myths are useless.

ToE is a scientific theory, and like science itself, is agnostic on the issue of sky fairies and magic men from dimension 11. It focuses on one thing - the diversity of life on earth.

Anyway, I should stop, this thread ain't about the ToE.

[edit on 26-7-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Iblis
Because God knows people do not think for themselves.

bwuahahahahahahah

so is god doing the thinking for us?

man, it's even worse than i thought.....

thanks god.......thanks baby jesus....

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Aren't you doing a repeat of precisely what I said?

Not at all, because I'm saying that when you stated this:

It definitely teaches a creator. One who doesn't exist

You are misinterpreting what ToE can say.

Negative. What it says is things evolved from a common ancestor correct? What did the common ancestor evolve from? Don't we at some point get back to dirt? After all we are all dirt. Not only are we dirt, but wonderfully recycled and continually recycled dirt! Isn't our creator awesome?

He's done amazing things with dirt and continues to do so.

Originally posted by melatonin
ToE is a scientific theory, and like science itself, is agnostic on the issue of sky fairies and magic men from dimension 11. It focuses on one thing - the diversity of life on earth.

No it's a religion and had it ever been agnostic at one point, by now it would have found the stone the builders rejected and rebuilt itself on it. The problem too many of those same builders are trying to become their own capstone. No worky. Boy I'm speaking some insanity today! Oh well, some have an ear.

Originally posted by melatonin
Anyway, I should stop, this thread ain't about the ToE.

This thread is (correct me if I'm wrong) about kids having religion forced on them at a young age. Is it not?

Why should you stop?


Melatonin, the LORD truly is amazing. I truly hope and pray that you come to know him. He'd show you things that'd make the wisest men you know become fools.

Originally posted by Iblis
They are not being brainwashed. This is the truth to the parent. Many religions rely on your adherence or faithfulness to that religion for your salvation or renewal in someway or another. So doesn't it make sense that a parent would want to teach their child to follow their scriptures and beliefs?

And, for future reference, in order to not 'ask in malice', do not call it brainwashing.

It makes sense to me that the only reason parents brainwash their own kids with religion is because the same exact thing happened to them at an early age. There are always a few exceptions of course.

Aside from that, it wasn't against parents that I made my original point, it was against establishment. The topic naturally fanned out into what else you've seen here and I'm glad it did, for the most part.

Also, Iblis, you shouldn't take offence at me using the term 'brainwashing', as Griff pointed out the word accurately represents this early conditioning process. The 'Fear of God' should not be pumped into childrens minds, this is pure psychological blackmail (be good and believe in me or you'll go to hell?) , which again I don't say in malice.