Welcome to the New 60's: The Revolution Is You.

the larouche youth movement may be one such avenue

Actually, it would probably be best to use U2U's to give jtma508's some answers...Since jtma508 is openly asking about activist groups for the purpose of finding & joining a cause, posting such answers in the open on this thread may be judged by the ATS Staff as "recruiting" & that gets people banned.

Sorry jtma508, but the T&C's are pretty clear on that matter, so I sent you a U2U to keep it off the open thread.

Originally posted by METACOMET
IMHO we are witnessing the government in which we have entrusted limited power to protect our rights – grow into a hideous behemoth controlled by an elite that continually increases in power and now enslaves the people in the guise of protection.

I honestly believe we face the same type of maniacal government our fore-fathers warned about and fought so bravely against.

Good post. I think that pretty well sums up the differnce between the 60's and now. In the 60's the people were still able to exert some influence over the govt. Due to our current apathetic population that influence has been lost. There have been a couple of posts that were somewhat differnt from my own opinions of the direction our country should be headed. Thats fine. Actually it's great. That's exactly how it is suppose to work. It is two american citizen that disagree on policy. That is way the system is suppose to work. We have allowed the govt. to become too large and impose themselves in all facets of our lives. We need the involvement of the people to hold the govt. accountable.

It doe's very little good to argue on internet sites . we have to come out of the closet and do what we can to take the system back to the people.

It is going to take people getting off theit lazy a$$e$ and getting involved. The position that we are in now has been caused by our own apathy.

[edit on 25-7-2007 by duster]


mod edit, fixed quote tags
Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link

[edit on 28-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by duster
It doe's very little good to argue on internet sites . we have to come out of the closet and do what we can to take the system back to the people.

It is going to take people getting off theit lazy a$$e$ and getting involved. The position that we are in now has been caused by our own apathy.

Actually, duster, I think it does a great deal of good to discuss issues like these on the internet. As a matter of fact, the internet may be the only vehicle open to us to create any meaningful change in this country. As a communication channel it is unprecedented in history. It affords us, the little people, the opportunity to connect. Also, unlike MSM that is bought/sold/controlled by the powers-that-be, the internet is beyond those controls. The only way they could control it would be to shut it down.

As we move closer to the next election, the internet is going to become a very powerful force. However, I agree with you in that whatever momentum we are able to create here on the 'net must translate to feet on the ground come November '08. Can you possibly imagine what the 60's movement could have achieved if the internet had been available? Communication is the key. A 60's icon, Marshall McLuhan, said it best: "The Medium is the Message"


[edit on 26-7-2007 by jtma508]

Hi jtma508,

Let me guess why you haven't responded yet to any of the replies:

Again, like I said earlier in another post there's simply nothing you haven't heard of any of them that could back you up in any way. Your leading post in this thread is very alike to my views and stands out from all the endless babling of others here on ATS. I'm with you man! And indeed, I am not from the US and sorry to say man but I'm proud of it now. I remember the times when everyone I knew loved the states with their friendly people and beautiful nature and landscapes. Now, I don't know a single soul in my social network (and believe me, it's big) that wants to travel to the US again.

Nevertheless, I stand by your side in full because you never asked for this to happen. As like any human being we don't choose the country we get born into. Let's get in touch and elaborate on the subject.

EDIT whoops, just saw your first reply

[edit on 26-7-2007 by Horusnow]

jtma508...... I can't disagree with your post. Obviously the internet and discussion boards like this are invaluable in formulating plans on what must be done to re-take OUR country and govt.

My point was that discussion alone will get us nowhere. It is going to take action and mass involvement to make any changes. Something has to be done to put a charge in the apathetic members of our society.

[edit on 26-7-2007 by duster]

100% agreed duster. In this post back on page two I suggest some things we need to do. In broad terms. I'm struggling to get my head around how to proceed. But I agree with you completely. We need to break the inertia and get things moving. People beyond ATS need to be educated and mobilized. The discussion needs to become pervasive so that it can lead to action.

Throughout this thread I have emphasized the need to identify organizations that are focused on restoring Constitutional accountability in government. There are numerous such groups out there (and many thanks to the ATSers that have U2U'd me links or provided them inside the thread).

I wanted to provide links to a couple of resources that I found particularly interesting. The first is The Constitutionalist Party. A Virginia attorney by the name of James Markels created it over 10yrs ago. I find the platform presented there very interesting. Unlike other 'Constitutionalist' organizations I have researched, his tends to be much more secular focused

An especially useful site is The Constitution Society. Of particular interest is their page on Abuses and Usurpations.

Any power that can be abused will be abused.
— Tyranny Law #1

Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
— Tyranny Law #2

If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.
— Tyranny Law #3

The 60's hippy generation was much more aware of how corrupt the planet was. They protested because they knew it was ridiculous to fight in Vietnam when american corporations were selling them arms and american banks were financing it.

Today's generation is nowhere near as aware or involved. They know something about oil but the majority of americans still actually believe that weapons of mass destruction were found.

And the corporations are much more in control of the media now. They learned their lesson from Vietnam. You dont see american soldier coffins televised. They dont allow reporters into heavy fighting zones.

Ironically the 60's hippy generation (baby boomers) sold out to corporate america.

Originally posted by jtma508
Throughout this thread I have emphasized the need to identify organizations that are focused on restoring Constitutional accountability in government. There are numerous such groups out there (and many thanks to the ATSers that have U2U'd me links or provided them inside the thread).

Well, I've found a site that doesn't exactly make a point of trying to actively restore the Constitution, but it's a law firm that uses the Constitution (& Bill of Rights) to protect people in the courtrooms from abuses to their Rights. They've already got quite a few successes listed & have an "online library" of lawbooks. It's called the Supreme Law Firm because they treat the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land...Just like the way the Government should be treating it.

Greetings all,

I joined ATS because of this thread, though I have been reading it for quite some time.

I firmly believe that the founding fathers would be members of this same thread. As a Constitutional Republican, and having read the historical documents concerning the founding of this nation, I have come to the conclusion that the representative republic system was the only viable system *for that era*. The Constitution and The writings of the Founders indicate that the reasoning behind the republican system was due to the population and pop density at the time, combined with the communications methods of the day. While they wanted democracy, they understood that at that time it would take years to make a single decision, and if they wanted to grow the country quickly, it would have to be a representative system.

But, they left in place the seeds of democracy. The intentions that behind the rapid growth of the country, communications and abilities would naturally improve (remember, this was during the age of enlightenment), so a democracy should naturally be formed, and a government for the people by the people take its rightful place on the stage of the world.

We are now at that time, but we are effectively being stymied from really becoming that through the actions of a sickening few with eyes only for themselves and their own delusions of grandeur.

The Declaration of Independence is one of the most poignant documents of today. When you go through it, in the context of today, aside from a few period contextual changes, it applies directly to what the current King George is doing to the people of the New World today.

We are the Jeffersons', and the Franklins', and the Monroes' and Adams' of today. The internet is our Independence Hall. and this is most definitely NOT the 60's, nor is it WW2 or the Cuban Missile Crisis. While the world may have minutes away from nuclear war then, the sheer megatonnage of what the world's arsenals today posses so overshadows the capabilities of that period to such an extent that they are almost incomparable.

...and protesting has simply become a way for the government to herd and catalog dissenters. In a few hours we may be experiencing Black Monday all over again, which would almost certainly trigger a nuclear conflagration with Iran simply to grab at the oil to boost our broken economy. War is always good for that...or so they say. Blah.

I run a cafe where local and state political types have their meals and coffee. I'll refrain from giving any details here, hoping that ATS is good enough to keep anything identifiable from falling into the wrong hands, I don't think for a minute that those nutjobs wouldn't try and shut me down for this. But everyone at our cafe is openly 911 truthers, and constitutional advocates. Vocally protesting the current administrations policy with the state legislators and city officials, the police department and the newspeople that come in there. We are in a particularly interesting position in the political spectrum.

We are the people that serve their food, and we don't hold back our opinions from them when they come in and even debate with them sometimes frequently. They keep coming back.

I don't think that this system is going to be functional for very much longer whether any kind of resistance is organized or not. But it is important perhaps now...in a revolutionary sense...to begin discussing, as Americans, the framework of what a true democracy would look like. It's like the old protest chant; "This is what Democracy looks like!" Well, what does democracy look like? How would it work in a country of 300 million people? How would we involve all of them? Most of them? How would it look in a country of 123 million after another false flag attack following a market meltdown? How can we communicate today on that scale? How can it be maintained open source? How can it be maintained post EMP? Post Peak?

Cont'd...

[edit on 30-7-2007 by tiredofthecrap]

If we want to alter or abolish or rebuild a system, first we must understand what it is that must take place for that goal to be realized.

What of an online Constitutional Convention? Why not use the internet as our Independence Hall? It hasn't been taken away yet, but maybe soon...

We may have to fight to regain it, and are we willing to do or even discuss that?

Following the Declaration of Independence was the Revolutionary War. This is not then, nor the Civil War, nor 1 or 2, nor Cuba, nor Vietnam, nor Iraq1 nor Y2K, because it is all of them. It can't be compared to any one era because it contains so may elements of all those I mentioned, and even more.

What are our alternatives to decision making on a local, regional, national and international scale? What are our alternatives to transportation (petroleum)? Plastic (petroleum)? Energy (petroleum, nuclear)? The economy (petroleum, faith)? Education (shattered)? Industry (murdered)?

Is the new revolution going to be a repeat of the same old thing (which the ubiquitous 'they' most certainly have terrifyingly effective countermeasures for, of which we are only beginning to see the extent of), or is it going to be something completely new? Something that hasn't been done before. Are we going to repeat history or make it?

Originally posted by tiredofthecrap
While they wanted democracy, they understood that at that time it would take years to make a single decision, and if they wanted to grow the country quickly, it would have to be a representative system.

Actually, no...The Founding Forefathers never wanted a Democracy & it has nothing to do with the era they lived in or the population density of America in their time.
They were knowledgable & educated...They already knew what the final fate of Democracy was, through their knowledge of previous Democracies in human history. The fate of Democracy is to devolve into Tyranny & they knew that because a Democratic society could be lured into having 51% of the Citizens literally "vote away" all of the Rights of the other 49%. Since this situation would have spelled doom for the People, they chose a Constitutional Republican form of Government that would be strictly limited in its Powers & commited to keeping the Rights & Liberties strong with the Public.

The Constitution also has the tools that let the Government put limits on private corporations (in their time, they were called Charters)...You have to recall that a lot of the Forefathers' problems were caused by those Charters & King James of England further oppressed the colonies by continually reneging on the terms of the Magna Carta. Thus were the reasons for the Declaration of Independance, the War & the initial formation of the Continental Congress...Until they could more fully visualize that a Constitutional Republic would be the best way to govern a nation.

Originally posted by tiredofthecrap
But, they left in place the seeds of democracy.

No, they didn't. They probably foresaw the improvements in travel & communication coming as a result of the Age of Enlightenment; As I stated before, they were repulsed by a Democracy because, with improved communications, propaganda would also become more effective...And thus, the Government's ability to influence Public opinion towards the goal of a Totalitarian State. That would be quite easy with a Democracy instead of a Constitutional Republic. They were very aware that they couldn't conceive what the future would be like, so they left the Constitution with the ability to change with the times, through the procedures of Amending it.

They knew that Governments will always seek total control over the Public, so that's why they left the Constitution with its strictest limitations: All Government Officers must legally bind themselves to pursue the intent of the Constitution & detailed systemized "checks & balances" between the three Branches!

The 10th Amendment is the biggest "check & balance" of all:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
By this Amendment, when the Government has gotten "too big for its britches," The People (either on their own or in conjunction with the States) have the legal Right & the Civic Duty to restore/replace the Government! One permutation of this is when, the Federal Government has gone too far, the States will be in command the various Militias!

tiredofthecrap you have obviously thought about things a bit.
Nice first post.
Im afraid MidnightDestroyer is right tho, no offense.
A constitutional Republic is freedom.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, 11Bravo...tiredofthecrap did very well for a first post, because he (she?) wrote with honesty & forethought. Just needs a bit of work on research though, but that will improve with time.

Heck, I've been a voracious reader from when I first learned how to read & I've still been making mistakes over the 4 decades (or so) since then. It's a part of being human.

Welcome to ATS!

[edit on 30-7-2007 by MidnightDStroyer]

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

By Dylan Thomas

"In the beginning of change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot" - Mark Twain

An excellent, and oh so true observation by Twain, but it was written in a different age. These days, Nationalism isn't helpful, its a burden that prevents international support from flooding in to aid you. And yes, I know I shouldnt lump Nationalism in with Patriotism, but for many of these American wannabe guerillas on ATS, there is no difference whatsoever, and they wouldn't know Patriotism if it bit them in the arse. Internationalism though, can serve to aid in many ways, those of which I won't go into here.

You all need to realise, this 'revolution' to which you all refer is NOT just and AMERICAN issue. Its a GLOBAL fight. Do you really think that these guys just stop at your borders? A lot of you love to throw the term NWO around.... you are aware that the W means World, right? You can fight for your country, but you wont get rid of them until you take it global. And that goes for everyone, Americans, Europeans, Asians, Africans.

The Net is our greatest weapon, as it will bring nations and peoples together to exchange ideas and strategies. Information is power, which is why the UN and the US is trying to put the Net under as much regulation as possible. Remember an educated people is a danger to them.

"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler

USE the Net, realise you are not alone. Some of you fight for the field, they fight for the entire farm, and can outflank you. If you give a damn about your country, then fight for your planet.

Well Spoken Terran Blue.

I expect the help we will need for the entire world is close at hand. It will given to us by purveyors of decadence. The downfall of "Intellectual Elite" (as they refer to themselves) is imminent. There is a crack in the armor they wear and once cracked it but a simple thrust to pierce the heart.

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." James Madison

The pursuit of truth is not a virtue, rather it is a quest.

Teran... No question this is (and has always been) a global initiative. The manner in which 'They' operate will differ from country-to-country in order to take advantage of the local political and financial systems. But 'They' are bent on world control. No question.

Here in the U.S. their biggest political obstacle is/has been the Constitution and the severe restrictions it places on government. Get rid of it and they can operate as they choose. Little-by-little they have been assembling the makings of a fascist (market-driven) government. We need to turn that trend back.

I was heartened by tiredofthecrap's mention of local politicians and media types' conversations in the restaurant noting that they are aware of the errosion of the Constitution and the dangers that represents. There may be alot more people out there aware of this than we think. There may be even more that have a sense of something being wrong but not quite ready to see it for what it truly is.

Educate yourselves. The net, as has been said, is our most powerful tool. It's a long shot but we could take over the next election. IF we organize; IF we can maintain a cohesive strategy; and IF we can make enough people believe that we CAN change things. Most of all, we HAVE to believe.


[edit for spelling on 1-8-2007 by jtma508]

[edit on 1-8-2007 by jtma508]

No, I tend to take George Mason's view on democracy and republics. He was one of the three individuals who refused to sign the Constitution. He did this for two reasons. One; at the time, there was no 'bill of rights,' these were the first ten amendments to the Constitution, and were based on Mason's 'Virgina Declaration of Rights' written in 1757 by Mason while he was governor of Virginia. The second reason he refused to sign is the imbalance in the legislative branch, in his opinion, would be unsustainable beyond 250 years. He thought that there was too many handles for corruption to grab ahold of. He was right.

I do not believe in the merits of a Constitutional Republic. I don't really care who the person is, I am distinctly uncomfortable with someone making my decisions for me, and that is exactly what goes on in the Legislature.

I have the power and ability to make my own decisions, and I am willing to cede to the majority, as long as it is truly a majority, not a majority representation. I think in the last 8 years, the electoral system has shown its rotted core, and in the last 6 months, we have seen clearly exactly how much our representatives actually represent the wishes of thir respective constituencies.

As to me needing to do a little more research, I beg those that made that claim of me to do the same. Read Jefferson's Letters. Read the writings of Benjamin Franklin. These men did wish to see a democracy in the New World. (Why else have we always called ourselves a democracy, even though we have not yet become one?). Jefferson wrote about the dangers of a representative system, and how it should be only the most short lived system of government in America, lest we run the risk of government becoming too big (which is what has happened).

Yes, some of the founding fathers were right d**chebags, but not all of them were. Some of them really were wise men. So, please, read all of the founding documents, not just the ones that can fit into your pockets and convenient soundbites. They said some pretty radical things. Things that got them into a lot of trouble with the king then, and that would get them into a lot of trouble with the Emperor today.

The biggest problem in this country right now, as far as I can see, is we are too quick to discount ideas that aren't close to other ideas. We're all looking for the quick, ONE answer to all the worlds ills. I even fall into this trap. J. Edgar Hoover said it best..."The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." The truth looks nothing like the lie.

Take 911 truth. Everybody loves talking about the Globalhawk that struck the Pentagon, right, and how evil Bush is for doing that to his own people? But whenever anyone brings up the idea that it was an internal explosion rather than a missile or a plane, they are automatically discounted, and even shunned (as in the case of an unfortunate witness to the Pentagon disaster who tried to come forward, but was immediately discounted as a disinfo agent because his story didn't match what Alex Jones, or other people involved in the truth movement, was saying.

I also fault the survivalist movement for dividing the American people and separating them from each other. Whether you go off alone in the woods with canned food and shotguns, or join a survival community and hunker down in the woods together with yer canned food and shotguns....that's some pretty selfish f--ing behavior. How is that going to help us all survive and get out of this in the fewest number of pieces?!

You've already comitted murder in your own minds when you think of killing a hungry man just because he doesn't have food and you do. That's not right. What does democracy look like? Where is the I in democracy? There is an I in republic, but where in democracy?

Solutions? Yeah, I agree, not enough are actually talking about solutions.