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Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

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posted on Mar, 18 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Since I haven't seen the speech I cant pass judgement . But to borrow a phrase when it comes to being presidential or PM material you to have the "stuff" . Romney was also undone by other issues such as his flip flop.

Take the current Deputy leader of the National Party Bill English for example . As leader of the opposition he tanked and lead his party to disaster at the polls. However as a member of the shadow cabinet he performs well .




posted on Mar, 18 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


Take the current Deputy leader of the National Party Bill English for example. As leader of the opposition he tanked and lead his party to disaster at the polls. However as a member of the shadow cabinet he performs well.


I’m flummoxed. That’s a new word for me and I kinda like it. Perplexed is a synonym. Or confused.

I thought the leaders of the opposition also made up the shadow cabinet. Like here we have the Majority Leader who runs the show. We have the Minority Leader who keeps his member in line and is ready to take over as Majority Leader when and if his party gains the majority of members.

So X11, how is Bill English not good as PM-in-waiting, but is good as a member of the STANDBY (shadow) cabinet?

What post does he hold in the Shadow Cabinet? Are you saying English is not good at the top job but has talents that he uses well in lesser posts?

[edit on 3/18/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Mar, 18 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite

I thought the leaders of the opposition also made up the shadow cabinet.


It my understanding that is more or less what happens of course there is bound to be input from advisor's , MP and the party back room . English official title is something like Nationals Finance spokesman . In effect he is the Shadow Finance Minister.






Are you saying English is not good at the top job but has talents that he uses well in lesser posts?


Lesser posts may not be the best way to put it given how important the annual budget is but you do seem to have the idea I was conveying. I regard English as good Cabinet material rather then as any future PM.



[edit on 18-3-2008 by xpert11]

[edit on 18-3-2008 by xpert11]



posted on Mar, 18 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


10-4 on Bill English



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 03:02 AM
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Obama Speak on Race

In the last 24 hours, Senator Barack Obama gave a very noteable speech today.

When he spoke, Barack Obama went far beyond the boundaries I thought he would set for himself. I’ll be the first to admit that I under-estimated what he could do with this speech. As a person with a disability, I face prejudice on a daily basis. It’s not nearly the extreme that most blacks face, but it does give me something to think about when I encounter the hate that can cause some people to act badly toward me.

I think we saw history. I think we heard a speech that could empower a lot of people, even if Obama does not win his party’s nomination. I think his oration had more social value than it had political value. His detractors will only hear the justifications, but others will (I hope) hear the message of social responsibility that I got from what he said.

Certain members of my own family still don’t think well of me. Their prejudice is motivated by religion. They see me as tainted, or even “wicked.” I can’t disown them, even if I wanted to. Which…some times, I do. Even so, I am my own person and they are entitled to their opinions.

I’m still not sure that this speech translates in to political capitol for Obama. I found it interesting that Representative John Mirtha, a senior Democrat, chose today of all days to endorse Hillary Clinton. I don’t read any conspiracy in to it. I just find it interesting.

I’ve lived in some parts of America where the only place you could go to worship was a black church. I’ve also been to some very white churches where the talk was just as…spicy. Anyone who is familiar with the Pentecostals will know what I’m talking about. It’s going to make for some tickling moments, but I’m still glad to see that we can have this topic kicked around in the middle of a Presidential race.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Senator Barack Obama gave a notable speech today. Obama went far beyond the boundaries I thought he would set for himself. I’ll be the first to admit that I under-estimated what he could do with this speech. I think we saw history. I think his oration had more social value than it had political value. His detractors will only hear the justifications, but others will (I hope) hear the message of social responsibility that I got from what he said. I’m still not sure that this speech translates in to political capitol for Obama.

I found it interesting that Representative John Murtha, a senior Democrat, chose today of all days to endorse Hillary Clinton. I don’t read any conspiracy in to it. I just find it interesting.


I have already confirmed my high valuation of his effort and if it is important then I congratulate him for making a speech that will go into the history books. I am honored to have been here when he made that speech.

Proof Obama is presidential!

No I don’t agree J/O, that Rep. Murtha’s endorsement was accidental. Noting in high politics is “accidental.” Murtha’s move was meant to soften the impact of Obama’s speech in PA, always looking to April 22. Perhaps as much as Texas and Ohio or even more so now, April 22 will be Hillary’s JUDGMENT DAY. Obama can live on without winning PA. For as we “gave” SC and MS to Obama on color grounds ALONE, so also we are “giving” PA to Hillary on traditional grounds alone. She really needs a repeat of Ohio NOT Texas to stay on the front burner.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Even I have to admit that it's within the range of possibility that Senator Obama can win his party's nomination. Senator Clinton scares me in ways that could keep me up at night, if she were President. How-ever, I can see a situation in which Obama loses to John McCain. If that happens, I think thre will be 'heck' to pay.

Having said that, I don't think it's likely that McCain will win. Too many economic factors will be lined up against him when we go to the polls.

1. Gas will at or near $4 a gallon.

2. Oil will cost more than $125 per barrell.

3. Unempolyment will be up.

4. Inflation will be up.

5. Consumer confidence will be down.

6. The cost of living will be up.

7. The death toll in Iraq will be over 4000.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Even I have to admit that it's within the range of possibility that Senator Obama can win his party's nomination. How-ever, I can see a situation in which Obama loses to John McCain. If that happens, I think there will be 'heck' to pay. Having said that, I don't think it's likely that McCain will win. Too many economic factors will be lined up against him when we go to the polls.

1. Gas will at or near $4 a gallon.
3. Unemployment will be up.
4. Inflation will be up.
6. The cost of living will be up.
5. Consumer confidence will be down.
7. The death toll in Iraq will be over 4000.
2. Oil will cost more than $125 per barrel.


1) I have declared elsewhere on ATS that the Democratic Party’s Nomination is now Obama’s to LOSE.

2) The post convention campaign will definitely be tug o’war between old people bashing and black people bashing. But on an upstroke, I join you J/O in observing there is a NEW charisma catching hold of the country in the young and educated class of Americans, largely white. It is as if they are fed up with politics as usual which has been standard America fare since 1865 with 2 brief interludes 1933-1952, 1964-1968.

I do want some discussion of my observation that the Dems cannot afford to let McCain RUN WILD and un-rebutted or countered, between now and August 24 when they meet in Denver. That’s giving up much of March, ALL of April, all of May, all of June, all of July, and almost all of August. Shucks, the people will forget what a Democrat is! This is NOT good. What’s open to the Dems?

[edit on 3/19/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
I do want some discussion of my observation that the Dems cannot afford to let McCain RUN WILD and un-rebutted or countered, between now and August 24 when they meet in Denver. That’s giving up much of March, ALL of April, all of May, all of June, all of July, and almost all of August. Shucks, the people will forget what a Democrat is! This is NOT good. What’s open to the Dems?


Hm. Let me see. If I were a conspiracy theorist...which I am...I would have to say the following:

1. Senators Clinton and Obama are locked in combat until the bitter end. That means...

a. The left leaning political action groups will have to carry the party's water from now through to the end of the convention.

and

b. Senators Clinton and Obama must take the time to scour their own backgrounds for anything that hasn't come out in the wash. Like the new legally blind governor of New York, they need to come clean and move on. If they don't GOP dirt hunters will find and use any and all ammo long before the convention.

The Dems need to break out their own 527's to "swiftboat" McCain early, and often. Find his dirt, and run with it. That's going to mean a lot of bank that doesn't go in to the general election, and, its going to mean that McCain can 'toughen up' well before he gets to officially engage the Democratic party's official nominee.

There are other options, but they can't be discussed here.

Every day that passes wherein Senator McCain is allowed to go for the photo ops and say the Presidential things without being contested...is...one more day that he gets closer to the White House. The Republicans are now truly afraid of being that minority I've predicted. They can see it coming, and it really has modified their thinking. To paraphrase Machievelli, fear is a great motivator.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Every day that passes wherein Senator McCain is allowed to go for the photo ops and say the Presidential things without being contested ... is ... one more day he gets closer to the White House. The Republicans are now truly afraid of being that minority I've predicted. They can see it coming and it really has modified their thinking. To paraphrase Machievelli (1469 - 1527), fear is a great motivator.


It does not look nearly as good for the Dems today as it did on February 5. Hey, they are calling McCain the come-back kid! Maybe for good cause.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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I think the word you're looking for is "chastened." McCain is 'reformed.' In spite of what the GOP elders may think of his realigned positions, they can't argue with his success. They tried to sabotage him, and he came back anyway. that resonates with a lot of people. It would be ironic if he did gain the Presidency, only to face a Democratically controlled congress. For a variety of reasons, he would be a one-term leader.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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I just watched Obama speech . He came across as the next president more then I have seen any other candidate do. Obama demonstrated that he is touch with the majority of Americans and that he can strike a cord with them . I have been wondering why the Hillary camp has not made an issue of this and now I have my answer .

Obama and his handlers have more political smarts then I ever gave them credit for. By dealing with the issue of his Church leaders comments quickly he prevented the issue from having a political toll . Countless times politician's have gone down the route of cover ups and only made things worse for themselves .

I suspect that if Obama has any policy's to back up his vision he will be saving them for any battle with McCain. The primary's seem to be more about candidates convincing people that they are capable of being POTUS rather then policy .



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


I just watched Obama speech . He came across as the next president more then I have seen any other candidate do. Obama demonstrated that he is touch with the majority of Americans and that he can strike a cord with them. I have been wondering why the Hillary camp has not made an issue of this and now I have my answer. By dealing with the issue of his Church leaders comments quickly he prevented the issue from having a political toll.

Countless times politician's have gone down the route of cover ups and only made things worse for themselves. I suspect that if Obama has any policy's to back up his vision he will be saving them for battle with McCain. The primary's seem to be more about candidates convincing people that they are capable of being POTUS rather then policy.


"He came across as the next president more then I have seen any other candidate do."


As I have often remarked, NO political candidate can afford to tell the truth about serious issues. For example, everyone knows we cannot afford to let our health care system drifts in a Reaganesque way. Letting the MARKET settle the issues. There are more than 3000 insurance companies in the health care field in the US. Almost NO regulations. And fewer enforcement officers. For the BIG GUYS it is like a Free Fire Zone was in Vietnam for American consumers.

There are 50 states, DC and PR, all allowed - states rights - to make many laws on the delivery of care, the standard of care and the cost of care. It is a bonanza of FIRST CLASS proportions for the dozen or so BIG PLAYERS - insurance companies that can afford national tv ads - and large multi-national pharmaceuticals.

Aside: Heparin.
A multi use drug that has come under close scrutiny over 20 unexpected deaths of patients on that drug. From an article at the website mentioned: The underlying cause for the abrupt increase in the number of adverse events reported for Baxter’s heparin sodium is under investigation. FDA inspectors and scientists are working independently and in collaboration with the Centers for Disease Control and Baxter to discover the underlying cause of the adverse events. www.weitzlux.com...

It was reported on CBS Evening News last night, 3/19, that the problem has been traced to a pork processing plant in China. No, the FDA does not even know the name or location of the plant that produces an active ingredient in American “made” medicines. Hey don't buy Canadian meds. Thank you Ronald Reagan. Your legacy lives!

Under Republicans the FDA plays catch-up. We think our medicines are safe, the FDA neither KNOWS nor CARES. It's only when the lawyers file the suits, they look up! We get MORE protection from the ATLA than we get from the US Government. GOD A'MIGHTY! What a mess.

As President Obama, he has his work cut out for him. We need to hire about 200,000 new employees to re-staff every regulatory agency. We need to begin to be PRO-Active and not Reaganesque RE-Active in policing. All the while fixing up the in the tank economy and getting our butts out of Iraq on the quick. We must go back to Afghan and do it the right way this time. We must STOP the world's new heroin factory. Then we need to go back to Columbia with a NEW and serious approach to ending the cocoa factory there. Yes, it will take EIGHT years of constant effort to undo the disaster that began in 1980! Thanks but NO thanks, Ronnie!

[edit on 3/20/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Let's have a quck review of the pontentials.

President Clinton
If Hillary wins her party's nomination, her detractors will say that she stole it ala Bush43 in 2000. There is still enough time for her to turn the tables on Barack, which she appears to be attempting. His recent speech may have actually helped to motivate some fence-sitters once way...or the other.


President Obama
If Barack wins his party's nomination, he faces a rocky road to the White House. Many of the prejudiced folks that Don talks about will cross over and vote for McCain, just to stop him. If he does win the White House, he may not be the same idealist that he was.


President McCain
Thre is no doubt that John McCain will win his party's nomination. As each day passes, the GOP gets in to line behind him...just a little bit more. McCain has already been bloodied. Kicked when he was down, and all that. His candicacy is "civil" by comparison to that of the Democrats. If he takes the White House, nobody will be surprised.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Let's have a quck review

President Clinton
If Hillary wins her party's nomination, her detractors will say that she stole it ala Bush43 in 2000. There is still enough time for her to turn the tables on Barack

President Obama
His recent speech may have actually helped to motivate some fence-sitters one way ... or the other. If Barack does win the White House, he may not be the same idealist that he was.

President McCain
There is no doubt that John McCain will win his party's nomination. His candidacy is "civil" by comparison to that of the Democrats. If he takes the White House, nobody will be surprised.


Golden kernels. Very incisive, Mr J/O. Thanks for saying in a few words what I often try to say in many but sounding as if I was some depleted buffo.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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This was a great speech! Hear, Here!





Plenty of quotables in there but, I thought this one was great:


CNN.com - speech transcript



For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle -- as we did in the O.J. trial -- or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina -- or as fodder for the nightly news.

We can play Rev. Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words.

We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time."



:applaudes:

Very well said, Barack! Again, great speech - very presidential. I'm liking him more and more as time goes by. Besides I don't trust Senator Clinton and McCain doesn't have any fire in his belly... and if there's any 'maverick' left in him still, which seems less-and-less likely as of late - the GOP will whip it out of him between now and the election. And he'll comply if he wants the base to get involved/excited. Senator Clinton, were she to get the nod, could do that dirty job for him. If anything would get the GOP base motivated, a possible Clinton presidency would do the trick. I think.



But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins ~ Future POTUS, Barack Obama

:salutes:


Seem like so long since I've enjoyed listening to a politician's speech. Seriously would anyone here, outside of academic purposes, really listen to 37minutes of GW? It's been awhile. Feels good.




PS,

Justin and Don: You guys are doing a great job here. I'm sure I'm not the only lurker enjoying your guys' work. Thanks.

Two
's up.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Rren
 



PS,
Justin and Don: You guys are doing a great job here. I'm sure I'm not the only lurker enjoying your guys' work. Thanks.


I'm thanking you Mr R for being so nice, but I'm not so sure J/O is happy cleaning up behind me.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by donwhite
I'm thanking you Mr R for being so nice, but I'm not so sure J/O is happy cleaning up behind me.


I hear from a lot of people who read this thread, but don't post. Big guns, Don. Big guns. AS long as we stick to the small calibers, nobody will get hurt.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Can Hillary HOLD out until PA votes? April 22. Gov. Bill Richardson, NM, my pick for VP several weeks ago, announced today that he is BACKING Obama! I did not see his speech but I was pushing the West Virgina speech by Obama and the intro by Jay Rockefller, wherein Obama HIT McCain HARD 6-7 times and Hillary 1 time. Go to CSpan.org to find a re-play schedule in your city. It looks as if Obama has decided he is the PRESUMPTIVE nominee for the Dems in '08! And so has Bill Richardson!

What a team, Obama and Richardson. Color on Color. Brown and Tan. Come one come all. The fat and the tall. The lean and the Green. This is the future you're lookin' at! Get on board!

I still love Hillary. I still want a woman to be our president. But alas, this is not the year! We cannot turn back FATE! The TIME is NOW!

God Bless America! YOU Can Do It!

[edit on 3/21/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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This election has taken more turns than a soap opera. I don't feel bad for Senator Clinton. She's had a good run, and I still don't think she'd be good for the country as Prsident.

I'm not wild about having a Democrat at the helm just now, but I recognize that my preferred political party is nerfed. Having said that, I do find it interesting that John McCain has defied his masters to get this far. It really is within the range of rational possibility that he could win the White House.

In the minds of many, Barack Obama is not nearly so dnagerous as Hillary Clinton. From where I sit, the worst he can do is become another Jimmy Carter. Carter was a good guy who got eaten by the system. We can survive anotehr Carter. We can't survive the continuation of another dynasty. Not with Economic Hell on our doorstep.



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