Larry King Live to talk about UFOs Friday

Originally posted by Flatwoods
All of makes sense, at least to me. People always forget that the Mogul array was top secret, and that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Air Force would have replaced it with a smaller, more ordinary radar target before allowing any photographs. They definitely would not have allowed the press to photograph the microphones or radio transmitters.

You know what, that’s a good point, you might be right. Although the various parts themselves weren't classified, their purpose was and that could have raised some eyebrows with our friends in Moscow. I've never thought of it quite that way before. That would explain a lot of things wouldn't it? Very interesting. We do know the sonabouy and/or other parts i.e. the "black box" Cavitt described were sent to Wright Patterson for ID, at least according to Trakowski.

Hmm...

That being said, if you really want to find a hole in the Mogul explanation, here's one to consider: why so little documentation? Think about it...a top secret piece of hardware gets lost in the desert, then found by a local rancher. Pieces of it get shown to a number of people, and word gets around to the local radio station and newspapers all over the world. The U.S. government suddenly finds itself scrambling to maintain secrecy, to the point of actually staging a press photograph.

All this represent a huge breach in security, and if so, you'd expect to find an official report or at least a memo describing the events of July 1947 in exquisite detail. But instead we have virtually nothing...just a report from the Air Force years later in which they say they think it was probably a Mogul balloon. This is odd.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Flatwoods]

Originally posted by yeti101
and so you think he never saw those pictures even though they were republished all over the press between 1978+ 1980 when he was telling his story?

i put it to you the debris in the photos was the debris from the ranch- balloon material including a radar target.

It is not the actual debris from the ranch. It is a RAWIN that came right from Ft. Worth Army Air Field.

Dubose said, "Somebody got one (a RAWIN) and we ran it up a couple of hundred feet and dropped it to make it look like it crashed, and that's what we used."

I don't believe anyone's stories anymore. That's all they seem to be these days, stories. Show me an Alien body or shut the hell up...

I guess it doesn't hurt to speculate. I often wondered about the U.S. Airforce 1994 Report on Roswell, and whether or not the Airforce is the right entity to be asking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Air Corps part of the Army in 1947? What if it turned out that, all along, the UFO researchers were looking at the wrong branch of the military?

Originally posted by Flatwoods
I guess it doesn't hurt to speculate. I often wondered about the U.S. Airforce 1994 Report on Roswell, and whether or not the Airforce is the right entity to be asking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Air Corps part of the Army in 1947? What if it turned out that, all along, the UFO researchers were looking at the wrong branch of the military?

That's certainly possible. Even Ruppelt himself questioned whether he and Blue Book were part of the UFO cover-up.

As I mentioned earlier today on another thread, the Air Force and the FBI were "spying" on the Army during the late 1940's.

I've also often pondered the reason why we've never seen any FOIA releases of UFO documents from the Navy!

There's one piece of evidence that "is in your face", and yet it doesn't get looked at much while everyone is trying to find hidden clues to the event at Roswell. The first statement to the press.

I can understand a mistake by some low level GI, but the people involved in that first statement of it being a saucer were far enough up the food chain to know better than to make such a mistake.

And the old standby of it being a joke is not one I would buy, because you learn pretty quick in the military that Uncle Sam does not issue a sense of humor. So no career officer can have one.

And in the aftermath of all of this, nobody got busted or had their career ruined.

Now I don't know what happened back then, but I do feel certain that something so far out of the ordinary took place that for a little while, even experienced officers spoke what they thought was the truth. And a balloon, no matter how you gussy it up, is still a balloon, and when it's on the ground you know it was a balloon. And they knew this was not a balloon, it was a "flying disk".

Originally posted by Flatwoods
All this represent a huge breach in security, and if so, you'd expect to find an official report or at least a memo describing the events of July 1947 in exquisite detail. But instead we have virtually nothing...just a report from the Air Force years later in which they say they think it was probably a Mogul balloon. This is odd.

It wasn’t a security breach. The only concern was the undue attention being drawn to it which could have revealed what Mogul was about. Other people found lost Mogul balloons (at least one was even stolen!) but of course they didn’t go to the sheriff thinking they had found one of those “flying disks” that everybody was talking about (and a $3,000 reward was being offered for!) like Rancher Mack Brazel did.

The only mistake anybody made was PIO Lt. Walter Haut who played it up for the press. According to Marcel Sr. and radio reporter George Walsh, Haut was reprimanded in the press at the time but of course Haut denied it later.

It should also be noted a Lieutenant is the lowest ranking officer in the military.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Access Denied]

Originally posted by Access Denied

The only mistake anybody made was PIO Lt. Walter Haut who played it up for the press. According to Marcel Sr. and radio reporter George Walsh, Haut was reprimanded in the press at the time but of course Haut denied it later.

Of course he was "reprimanded in the Press", because the cover story was "Opps, its just a Weather Balloon Folks!".

He was not "reprimanded" by his superiors or the Military!

Originally posted by Access Denied
It should also be noted a Lieutenant is the lowest ranking officer in the military.

Actually, that would be 2nd Lieutenant (O-1). I know that may not seem like much, but it's a world of difference if you are one or the other. Plus we mustn't forget our esteemed warrant officers, who have a great deal of respect within military circles, but are technically ranked lower than lieutenants.

According to 'Witness to Roswell' the press release was likely a diversionary tactic to get people away from the more important crash site north of town. They believe the whole thing was choreogrpahed from the pentagon itself, or at least Gen. Ramey. I'm not promoting that position, but just pointing it out.

That's certainly possible. Even Ruppelt himself questioned whether he and Blue Book were part of the UFO cover-up.

As I mentioned earlier today on another thread, the Air Force and the FBI were "spying" on the Army during the late 1940's.

I've also often pondered the reason why we've never seen any FOIA releases of UFO documents from the Navy!

Especially when one considers the installations most capable of handling extraterrestrail material, whether it be biological in nature or not, are under the control of the Army - i.e. Fort Deitrich, Dugway Proving grounds, etc.

Originally posted by Flatwoods

Especially when one considers the installations most capable of handling extraterrestrail material, whether it be biological in nature or not, are under the control of the Army - i.e. Fort Deitrich, Dugway Proving grounds, etc.

You know before the Air Force ever existed in 1947, the Army had a small endevor called the Interplanetary Phenomena Unit (IPU).

The Army claims that all the records associated with the IPU were turned over to AFOSI. AFOSI claims that they've never recieved these records!

All we can say is that before the Air Force existed in 1947, the Army acknowledges the existence of the IPU. That begs us to ask what on Earth did the Army need an IPU for, even if this was only an impromptu organization!?

There is something else to consider here, "The silence from topside".

Swords writes, "As July wore on into August, Garrett, Schulgen, and Reynolds became confused by a lack of interest and pressure emanating from the high echelons of the Pentagon. The previous year they had gone through an investigative furor about a subject that they considered to be similar to the flying discs, when hundreds of “ghost rocket” reports came out of Sweden and other European countries. In 1946, the top brass had exerted continuous pressure to find an answer, but now it had gone completely quiet. This puzzling void has been termed “the silence from topside.” It was very peculiar to Garrett and the FBI. Their mutual suspicion was that the very highest officials knew what this phenomenon was already (Swords, 1991)."

www.ufoscience.org...



As I also pointed out earlier today on another thread, the Air Force and FBI were "spying" on the Army in New Mexico!

During the late 1940s, the Army began testing captured, German V-2 missiles at White Sands, New Mexico. The question was asked of General Watson, "What's the Army doing at White Sands?" Since the question came from a high level, he decided to find out. To gather the information, General Watson decided to see what information could be obtained using electronic surveillance. After getting his plan approved by J. Edgar Hoover, the Federal Bureau of Investigation director, and General Nathan Twining, the Air Force Chief of Staff, General Watson put a crew in a hotel in Alamogordo, New Mexico, near the White Sands missile range to spy on the Army. This was the start of electronics intelligence (ELINT) as a concerted effort in the Air Force.

www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil...

[edit on 15-7-2007 by lost_shaman]

What are you guys even arguing about? Aren't you tired of this? There is no proof of anything. Just let it go. Focus on something new. Roswell will never be fully understood...

Originally posted by Diplomat
What are you guys even arguing about? Aren't you tired of this? There is no proof of anything. Just let it go. Focus on something new. Roswell will never be fully understood...

Who's arguing? We're just speculating, that's all. Part of the problem with ufology is that everyone keeps turning over the same rocks. Looking in new directions can yield surprises. Just a thought.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Flatwoods]

Originally posted by Flatwoods
Looking in new directions can yield surprises. Just a thought.

Well you are right about that, but good luck finding something new. If you discover something along these new directions, then please let us know...

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Diplomat]

Originally posted by Diplomat
What are you guys even arguing about? Aren't you tired of this? There is no proof of anything. Just let it go. Focus on something new. Roswell will never be fully understood...

Roswell, no matter what actually happened there is part of BOTH Military and UFO History!

If that personally bothers you, don't read Roswell discussions!

What else is there to discuss about Roswell that hasn't already been discussed? And where has it gotten us? Probably the same place we were back in 1947...

There realy isnt too much fisical evidence, i want to se the new documentary if can download somewhere from here to andromeda if there is real some new proof, but i dont belive anymore becouse its all like a religion, they want you to buy new DVD. I watched a lot of these documentary and evidence, nothing new, mostly old pics and testimonys like stories, withouth much credibility, there isnt enough proof, they just want to sell DVD.

Download it for free if you realy want to get out the truth.

Originally posted by lost_shaman
You know before the Air Force ever existed in 1947, the Army had a small endevor called the Interplanetary Phenomena Unit (IPU).

I don't claim to be an expert on UFOlogy, by any means, but I've been paying attention for a long (40 years since I wrote Von Braun) time. I'm a little astonished that I have never heard of the IPU. Am I the only one?

Hello all, First Post...

I watched the larry king live show. I figured someone else must have saw the thing i saw. I hope someone recorded it. When larry cut to the other news caster dude (who was filming on top of a building with some mountains behind him) and they were making jokes about how he is looking around for flying objects and doesn't see any. Right then something flew from the right side of the screen behind his head.

Now before people jump on me, I dont think it was an alien craft. It either was something explainable or just plain disinformation. I dont have it recorded (i didn't setup my dvr right). But i did take some digital pics of my tv. They are horrible qulaity and I just hope someone recorded it and can post a video.