Why do Brits stand "alone" in Information?

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Come on - people can come here and become terrorists without telling anyone so unless your a psychic how do you find out?

exactly

spot on the money mate

but interpol should remember that British intelligence is nothing like the CIA, MI5 and MI6 are the secret service.

thats why information is not shared.

When speaking of interpol, it's worth remembering that there are about 186 members.
Some of these members are countries who have (either now or in the past) been linked with state sponsored terrorism.
en.wikipedia.org...-bureaus

Why share critical information with people who may pass it onto the groups being investigated?

[edit on 10/7/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by budski
When speaking of interpol, it's worth remembering that there are about 186 members.
Some of these members are countries who have (either now or in the past) been linked with state sponsored terrorism.
en.wikipedia.org...-bureaus

Why share critical information with people who may pass it onto the groups being investigated?

[edit on 10/7/2007 by budski]

i didn't know that

after looking through the list, you cannot blame UK intelligence after seeing some of those names

Originally posted by budski
Why share critical information with people who may pass it onto the groups being investigated?

This is a cop out.

Although the discussion has centred around the intelligence services, what about the police, they haven't shared anything either? What about the immigration service?

This is not just a question of the secret service being secret it is about the police authorities not choosing to share information and that is a two way street. Why are we not checking passports against the lists that we are provided of stolen passports? Why should we worry about sharing information on people who have already been apprehended anyway?

They may be protecting us, they may be covering their backs. When it comes down to it we do not know. Are we supposed to wait the 15 years they estimate it will take to get the problem under control until we find out?

If the threat is so great and so pressing why didn't ministers agree to the 90 day holding period. Why has John Reid, the only member of Blair's cabinet to seek the protection for our rights and the lifting of reporting restrictions in cases of national interest, been completely side-lined by Gordon Brown?

I don't have the answers, but I damn well intend to keep asking until I am assured that this government is working in our best interests.

Originally posted by stumason
Oh, don't worry, I see the corruption and I don't trust politicians as far as I can throw them. That does not equate to the Security Services though. I trust a Soldier above the Police, for starters.

But to accuse me of having my head in the sand when you offer up little, if any evidence, of the UK becoming a "Police State", is rather rude.

A big oversimplification of everything. They have to implement their police state without starting a revolution at home, and today thanks to the so-called homegrown terrorist threat there are people approving government moves to go in that direction. I never said laws didn't exist before Blair, I did say Blair introduced very many new fascist laws.

In the World Wars people were forced to fight in the army supposedly to defend Poland and avenge the death of a Habsburg!!!!!!!

There is evidence the British SIS were involved in 7/7 bombings and there are likely many threads on this site discussing it.

It wasn't twisting the facts about the IRA, you are just too easily brainwashed by them. And the "soldiers" you trust are trained to follow orders. Not all SIS personel are corrupt, but those in control are.

I assume there have been many threads discussing these subjects on this so-called conspiracy site which is why I didn't go into it in great details, I hadn't realised there were still so many brainwashed people, people who imagine the government is corrupt but somehow their secret service isn't!!!

What was the British angle on this story???
www.guardian.co.uk...

As for evidence of britain becoming more of a police state, there is evidence of that everywhere, even some of the police themselves are now warning they are being given too much powers.
Here are some stories of interest which show corruption of those in control in Britian

SEX VIRUS VACCINE LINKED TO THREE DEATHS
www.express.co.uk...
UK wants to FORCE girls to get Sex Virus Vaccine
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Government officials were made aware of some problems with a version of the MMR vaccine in other countries but still introduced it in Britain in the late 1980s, newly released documents show.
www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2007/03/05/nmmr05.xml

Schools fingerprinting kids without parental consent
rinf.com...

New Law Every 3 Hours from Blair
news.scotsman.com...


How english bankers brought Poverty to america
reactor-core.org...

ID Cards
www.thisislondon.co.uk...

Police chief fears Orwellian State
news.bbc.co.uk...

more of interest to residents in UK
drjn.co.uk...
The Queen has signed 6 of the 7 EU Treaties.

2. The 6 treaties define and build the EU as an unelected dictatorship.

3. The EU's laws give it the powers of a police state.

4. The 7th EU treaty will complete the abolition of Britain as a nation

- the Queen could sign it in as little as two years.

drjn.co.uk...

The EU has been sold to Britain as their best hope for the future . . . But behind the scenes, has another, more unsettling agenda been unfolding? The European Economic Community (EEC) began for Britain as a free-trade agreement in 1972. Today's European Union is well on its way to becoming a federal superstate, complete with one currency, one legal system, one military, one police force and even its own national anthem. In this documentary featuring EU insiders and commentators, independent author Phillip Day covers the history and goals of the European Union, as well as the disturbing, irrevocable implications this new government has for every British citizen. Whether the viewer is for or against Britain's participation, this film asks the troubling questions the mainstream media has refused to confront.
video.google.com...



[edit on 10-7-2007 by golddragnet]

Originally posted by Pjotr

Why do Brits stand "alone" in Information?

www.indiadaily.com

Ronald Noble, head of Interpol, Europe's international intelligence service atttacks the Brits about their 19th century attitude towards sharing information.

London had not shared any information from the investigation of three failed car bomb attacks and had not made good use of a passport database.

The Interpol chief wonders why British authorities are so worried about transparency in the terror investigation.

(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 9-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Hmmm...couldn't be anything to do with the current government being in bed with the Bush administration could it The Brits try to throw a spanner into the works of everything the EU tries to do - and my suspicions are that this is exactly what the White House wants them to do. They do NOT want an organised world power in europe - and the Brits are their 'inside men' for that job. But with Germany and France now in the Bush camp....the pressure is off the Brits for a while..they can stop being the 'bad guys' of europe for the time being.

J.

The EU is directly elected, infact Blair was president of the council not long ago...
As for "sex virus vacine" , wheres your complaints against the measels jabs, tetnus, hep B and C jags we all recieve free here in the UK?

None of these can be forced onto you without your parents consent (yes they are legally forced to do so and I have seen and had my parents sign those papers before) But believe what you wish, afterall its a free country I mean we even still walk along a street protesting against whatever we so wish as long as we arent calling for blood (that hasnt stopped several protestors before), I mean come on....if we were a police state then why is there a PERMANENT peace camp at faslane naval base?

Originally posted by golddragnet
In the World Wars people were forced to fight in the army supposedly to defend Poland and avenge the death of a Habsburg!!!!!!!

And you have the cheek to accuse me over over-simplifying! Jeebus...

Originally posted by golddragnet
There is evidence the British SIS were involved in 7/7 bombings and there are likely many threads on this site discussing it.

There is speculation and very little else to be honest. Evidence is either something tangible or someone testifying, neither of which I have seen done about the 7/7 attacks. Obviously, you could "enlighten" me with this "evidence" in summary form, if your adamant it exists. I'm sure it is pertinent to the topic.

Originally posted by golddragnet
It wasn't twisting the facts about the IRA, you are just too easily brainwashed by them. And the "soldiers" you trust are trained to follow orders. Not all SIS personel are corrupt, but those in control are.

And just how many soldiers/service personnel do you know, I wonder, after a statement like that. Brainwashed? You haven't a clue, mate, get off your high horse, before someone knocks you off.

To be honest, I've had enough of these "believe what I say as gospel without proof or your a brainwashed cretin" types that have appeared of late. No matter how much you chuck logic and reason at them, they'll argue with you until the sun dies. Don't have the time, I'm off to play Medieval Total War 2....

Can someone elaborate on the stolen passport situation in Great Britain? Comments such as this triggered my curiosity:

Originally posted by Kilgore Trout
Why not check passports against lists of those stolen?

Is there a problem with stolen passports over there?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Is there a problem with stolen passports over there?

No it is an international problem. But one of interpols complaints (though not specified in the OPs article, I will try and dig out a link tommorrow - past my bedtime now) was that the UK are not checking incomings against this list.

Obviously it is a substantial list and would slow customs checks down, but I personally would have thought that when the country is on high alert all measures would be taken - unless of course the powers that be know exactly where the risk lies.

All the best

Originally posted by jsobecky
Is there a problem with stolen passports over there?

I did not bother to give you a link to a dutch newssite, because it is in Dutch obviously. But Ronald Noble (dir. Interpol) said that the Brits just do no make use of the information available and do not GIVE information. The ample supply of info on stolen or lost ID's was an example. Obviously when you check someone on your border, and he/she is traveling with ID that is reported stolen or lost, it is a good reason to do some more checkin on that person. Because a stolen/lost ID is normally not used again. The ID and that person do not match in 90 % of the cases. You will get a new (other) one in my country.

Thanx to all the others for all there interesting perspectives on the subject.
I am leaning against the opinion that is indeed "the old ways" mixed with the uncertainty of positions and power in Europe that is fixing the Secret Service in their ways. In their "fight" against terrorism they must feel well-informed and powerfull enough. Although a lot of conspiracy theorist consider Europe as a rising Mogul, from what i read it still a powerstruggling giant infant with lots of different guardians. Pros and cons call it a unindentified political object (upo). Cons because of the threat to democracy, pros because of the fact that the first time in history there is voluntary body of nations that work together for peace and prosperity (Ireland seems a have lot to thank Europe for). Is socalled not imperialistic (everybody wants to join freely and wholeheartedly!.....except for the Brits of course).

Is it an old Commonwealth characteristic? Australia does not share onfo either.

I don't think the British do stand alone. Seems to me they will share certain aspects of intelligence to Nations with a need to know, when they decide too.

Dallas

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
British intelligence is not incompetent, people are - individuals even.

As for letting terrorists into the country - this is a free country people from areas may come here settle and make a life if they like - however it does not say on the form - Do you intend to set off bombs and kill and maim while you are here?

Come on - people can come here and become terrorists without telling anyone so unless your a psychic how do you find out?

Don't blame the Government, Intelligence community or your local councillor - its down to the terrorist, understand its a life choice - Doctor or bomber / they will decide.

Most first world countries have exstensive background checks and other methods of weeding these types out. The UK does not - it's very slack in most areas of security. Mark my words - things are only going to get worse there at this rate. I truly worry about what will happen in the UK this summer - going on what has already been happening there...

J.

Most european countries pay only lip service the human rights act - the UK blindly follows it.

This has resulted in extremely silly situations like Abu Hamza being able to fight deportation to the US (using British legal aid money)
The planeload of afghan hijackers still living here FREE at taxpayers expense.
Housing for illegal immigrants
No health checks on new arrivals (health tourism costs the UK billions per annum)
Illegal immigrants using UK taxpayers money to fight against deportation.
Rioting at deportation centres, where they claim their human rights are being abused because they are not kept in 5-start luxury.
Denis Neilson being allowed gay porn in prison - despite being a serial killer of homosexual men

The list goes on and on.

As far as not sharing information with Interpol, the French are liable to try and use it against us, the Germans are liable to pass it on to the french.

France is the main culprit when it comes to looking after it's own interests first and should not be trusted with any sensitive information - they are quite capable of giving it away in a fit of pique if they don't get their own way.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by jsobecky
Is there a problem with stolen passports over there?

No it is an international problem. But one of interpols complaints (though not specified in the OPs article, I will try and dig out a link tommorrow - past my bedtime now) was that the UK are not checking incomings against this list.

Obviously it is a substantial list and would slow customs checks down, but I personally would have thought that when the country is on high alert all measures would be taken - unless of course the powers that be know exactly where the risk lies.

All the best

Which is damNed rich when all the EU countries want us in the UK to drop our border controls, then when we enforce our border controls they moan they dont get info?

For those readers not in the EU, dont forget that between all EU contries there is no border control and there is free movement, except into and out of the UK. So all illegal immigrants walking into Italy or Spain (and those Africans who actually manage to land in Spain are allowed to stay) simply make their way all across the EU.

The French, instead of sending illegal immigrants waiting at Dover to sneak onto lorries and trains home, actually provide them with board and lodging !!! and dont throw them out, when EU regs state they should be returned to the last country of entry. They closed the last illegalimmigrant center at Sangatte a few years back but they are now going to open another. They are encouraging illegals to sneak into the UK, then they moan we wont share info? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


[edit on 12/7/07 by Chorlton]

Originally posted by Chorlton
Which is damNed rich when all the EU countries want us in the UK to drop our border controls, then when we enforce our border controls they moan they dont get info?

For those readers not in the EU, dont forget that between all EU contries there is no border control and there is free movement, except into and out of the UK. So all illegal immigrants walking into Italy or Spain (and those Africans who actually manage to land in Spain are allowed to stay) simply make their way all across the EU.

The French, instead of sending illegal immigrants waiting at Dover to sneak onto lorries and trains home, actually provide them with board and lodging !!! and dont throw them out, when EU regs state they should be returned to the last country of entry. They closed the last illegalimmigrant center at Sangatte a few years back but they are now going to open another. They are encouraging illegals to sneak into the UK, then they moan we wont share info? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Apart from noting that it is interpol not europol that are raising the concerns....I could not agree more with everything else that you say. I believe our secret services know EXACTLY where the terrorist threat originates and this is my concern over everything else.

I resent being kept in the dark, though I understand why we are.

But Interpol is simply a Toothless, fireless dragon that spouts much but is unable to do practically anything

From the Interpol website

'Interpol’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character.’