Why do Brits stand "alone" in Information?

Why do Brits stand "alone" in Information?

www.indiadaily.com

Ronald Noble, head of Interpol, Europe's international intelligence service atttacks the Brits about their 19th century attitude towards sharing information.

London had not shared any information from the investigation of three failed car bomb attacks and had not made good use of a passport database.

The Interpol chief wonders why British authorities are so worried about transparency in the terror investigation.

(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 9-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

The Brits don't make use of for example the data about 7 milion stolen or lost passports "there was an obvious link between stolen passport and AL-Qaeda linked terrorists" says Noble. Noble calls this attitude retarded (dutch newssite) and of course it is, when you do NOT question their role. Based on this news, which surprises me, I would begin to question their role.
Why would you not seek and not give information to one of the biggest databanks on crime in the world?
You indeed must think you already know everything.

www.indiadaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

My husband and I were only discussing this earlier today and I have mentioned my own issues regarding the so-called terrorist threat to this country in another thread.

If the Uk is under such a great risk of terrorism why are we not using every means necessary to combat it? Why indeed are we not sharing information with interpol and every other agency who might be able to assist in our 'fight'? Why are we letting every Tom, dick and Harry to enter the country unchecked? Why are our borders still open?

Questions no answers...although I could tell you why I think this is happening, I won't because I cannot do so without a number of very choice expletives....sure you get my drift though

thats cause no one else can be trusted with the info, my cousin works in whitehall in london and he always jokes with "what are u gonna do tell the yanks" and then laughs so his attitude must be how they think like that, he said they have closed a lot of contacts off due to misinformation and not using it in the right way which sounds plausable, were not all stiff upper lip brits i just think and get the feeling we are working on our alone a lot cause were finding it harder to trust people, from what he is allowed to talk about which isnt much he claims we are the best in when it comes to the intelligence community, i dunno wot it is he does but he often mentions staying at the royal horseguards hotel which is expensive as hell on his salary...lol

British intelligence is a secret service.

They do not like being poked about and certainly don't like opening its door's to international bodies.

MI5 and MI6 will only share information with the CIA or Mossad. No one else.

Our secret service is so secret, not even Parliament or the British government knows what goes on. It's not accountable to either.

From what I understand, British intelligence has accessed the database but will not share it's information with anyone else.

This 9-11-01 terrorist attack/war in Iraq over WMDs is all fake. Anybody who has seen the evidence of lack of knows this. Every major news about terrorist attacks since 9-11-01 has lost any shread of creditability due to that whole staged event to begin all this BS.

the british secret service is the most powerful secret service in the world. Obviously they don't want transparency in the domestic "terrorist threats", because then the public might learn that it is the British Secret Service itself is organising the "terrorist threat" in an effort to force through more legislation, id cards, biometric databases, and even microchipping the populace down the line, all in the name of fighting "terrorism"

I like how the above posts make the British Intelligence Services sound fantastic and better than anyone else. The truth is that they are so incompetent they don't want other people to find out. I mean what is the deal with letting so many terrorists settle here, or the trade in postports.
As a Brit I would love to say that we have the best intelligence services in the world, but the reality is that they are secretive because they are incompetent.

Originally posted by CarlosG
The truth is that they are so incompetent they don't want other people to find out.

"The truth"

truth (trth)
n. pl. truths (trz, trths)
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.

British intelligence is not incompetent, people are - individuals even.

As for letting terrorists into the country - this is a free country people from areas may come here settle and make a life if they like - however it does not say on the form - Do you intend to set off bombs and kill and maim while you are here?

Come on - people can come here and become terrorists without telling anyone so unless your a psychic how do you find out?

Don't blame the Government, Intelligence community or your local councillor - its down to the terrorist, understand its a life choice - Doctor or bomber / they will decide.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Come on - people can come here and become terrorists without telling anyone so unless your a psychic how do you find out?

exactly

spot on the money mate

but interpol should remember that British intelligence is nothing like the CIA, MI5 and MI6 are the secret service.

thats why information is not shared.

MI5 and MI6 are accountable to Parliament, but to a select committee which meets in Private.

MI6 also reports to the Foreign Office. MI5 reports to the Home Office.

Originally posted by infinite
Our secret service is so secret, not even Parliament or the British government knows what goes on. It's not accountable to either.

Actually mate they are...if you look up the "secret service act of 1989" , can you tell I've read this several times before? , you'll notice in section 2 subsections 2 and 4 the director general reports to the PM and the secretary of state who if I am wrong reports to the PM and he reports to....?

And infact mate the SIS is also acountable to the secretary of state as well mate under the Intelligence Services Act 1994, read that one as well many a time in these stupid arguements between yanks and us brits..., its all there mate you just need to look it up....the scary stuff is under the emergancy powers act...

12. Section 29(1) of the Act provides that emergency regulations which relate wholly or partly to
Scotland may not be made unless a senior Minister of the Crown has consulted the Scottish Ministers
(although this requirement to consult may be disapplied by reason of urgency).
13. While emergency regulations under the Act would be made by Her Majesty (or in extremis an
appropriate senior Minister of the Crown), the resources and expertise to implement the regulations
in Scotland would in most cases lie with the Scottish Ministers. Any emergency regulations made
should reflect normal legislative and administrative responsibilities within Scotland and be
compatible with the Scotland Act 1998.

Buts thats another story...
www.ukresilience.info...

Originally posted by CarlosG
I like how the above posts make the British Intelligence Services sound fantastic and better than anyone else. The truth is that they are so incompetent they don't want other people to find out. I mean what is the deal with letting so many terrorists settle here, or the trade in postports.
As a Brit I would love to say that we have the best intelligence services in the world, but the reality is that they are secretive because they are incompetent.

Letting "terrorists" settle in UK is exactly what they want. Then they can blame "homegrown" terrorism, everyone is a suspect, and so everyone will need ID cards, and microchipping will be a future follow-on from that.

The British SIS are the most powerful intelligence agency in the world. The British SIS are not on the side of the British public, they are working to another agenda.

What agenda would that be?

Bottom line is, if they wanted to institute a Police State or dictatorship, they had ample opportuinty in the past.

Whats so special about now?

Sometimes I think people are too paranoid for their own good, so that reason and logic take a back seat...

Originally posted by stumason
What agenda would that be?

Bottom line is, if they wanted to institute a Police State or dictatorship, they had ample opportuinty in the past.

Whats so special about now?

Sometimes I think people are too paranoid for their own good, so that reason and logic take a back seat...

What ample opportunity are you refering to? Can't you see britian is heading more towards a police state, take a look at all the new laws Blair introduced.

The British SIS were involved in the 7/7 London Bombings. Their links to the IRA have been shown in recent times, it isn't just now it is happening.

It is not paranoia, if you can't see the corruption then you have your head in the sand.

Originally posted by golddragnet
What ample opportunity are you refering to? Can't you see britian is heading more towards a police state, take a look at all the new laws Blair introduced.

Are you British by any chance?

If you are, I'm surprised at your lack of knowledge. Both World Wars were a good chance. Plenty of opportunities throughout history to implement a dictatorship. If you know British history, then you'd known what I'm on about.

Do you know that even prior to Blair, the laws exist on the Statute books to allow the Government to institute a Police state. But they haven't. They only use those powers when they really have to, such as a time of National crisis.

There is a law that allows for the suspension of Human rights, yet this is not in effect.

If they wanted to, they could suspend Parliament indefinitely, get rid of the Monarchy, or even start up internment camps with the laws already in place.

But they do not.

Originally posted by golddragnet
The British SIS were involved in the 7/7 London Bombings.

Evidence? Thought not....

Originally posted by golddragnet
Their links to the IRA have been shown in recent times, it isn't just now it is happening.

Twisting the facts a bit there.

The only reason MI5 and the Army infiltrated the IRA was to gain intelligence.

Unless your insinuating that MI5 and the Army were complicit in killing their own?

Which, if you are, I find deeply offensive, what with having been in NI during the Troubles and faced daily threats to my life as a result. Anyone who knows anything about the British services knows they do not sacrifice anyone .

Originally posted by golddragnet
It is not paranoia, if you can't see the corruption then you have your head in the sand.

Oh, don't worry, I see the corruption and I don't trust politicians as far as I can throw them. That does not equate to the Security Services though. I trust a Soldier above the Police, for starters.

But to accuse me of having my head in the sand when you offer up little, if any evidence, of the UK becoming a "Police State", is rather rude.

Originally posted by stumason
The only reason MI5 and the Army infiltrated the IRA was to gain intelligence.

Not strictly true. The intelligence services quite actively played each side against each other, this is what they do best, this is what they have done from their very inception. Get the two sides to kill each other and then go in and pick up the pieces. Do you think that they never get out the calculator and work out the collateral damage? Of course they do.

Though your view of our intelligence services is admirable, you are making the assumption that they are incapable of corruption.
I don't know whether you have read Peter Wright's book, but if you have you will know that corruption has existed, that not everyone in the intelligence community is fixed up on the honour of serving Queen and country. Sometimes they work for their own self-interests, sometimes for mis-guided notions of idealism, sometimes for financial gain. As Peter Wright pointed out, sometimes this can go all the way to the top of the organisations.

I have serious doubts about the 7/7 bombings, some aspects do not add up. I do disagree with Golddragnet about us moving towards a police state, apathy amongst significant portions of our society renders such action unnecessary for a start. Our Police are insufficiently politicised for another.

There is a threat of terrorism, there is always a threat of terrorism, but I do not believe that is even half as significant as is made out.

It could be that they are protecting us from the truth because the truth is too terrible for most people to contemplate, but the actions and inactions of the intelligence communities do indicate to me that they are fully aware of the situation. They know exactly where the threat is coming from. Why have secrets if they have nothing to hide? Why shut out the international intelligence community unless it is the international intelligence community that poses the greatest threat to us. There is a lot of cat and mouse going on, too much for my way of thinking, they are directing our attention with slight of hand. Look here, not there.

I am not being presumptious, I will remain vigilant, I am after all not an idiot. Yes we have open borders, anyone can come in, of course they are not going to declare their intention to blow up a bus, but if we are under such a threat why not shut the borders down - at least temporarily. Why not check passports against lists of those stolen? Why expect me to take the threat seriously when they are not? Why release petty criminals back into society to cope with overcrowding when they could simply deport all the illegals contained in our prisons?

I love my country, I take great pride in being English and British, but does that mean I should be blind to the corruption, double standards and ineffectiveness of my government and intelligence communities? No. Quite the opposite in fact, if we do not question them, who will?

Originally posted by golddragnet
The British SIS are the most powerful intelligence agency in the world. The British SIS are not on the side of the British public, they are working to another agenda.

Depends how you define "powerful"

Russian intelligence agency has a wide range of power and influence in the Russian state than what MI5 or MI6 has to the British establishment.

Difference if mate, if you mess around with British intelligence, you'll end up in a cell. Screw about with Russian intelligence, you'll end up "missing".

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by golddragnet
What ample opportunity are you refering to? Can't you see britian is heading more towards a police state, take a look at all the new laws Blair introduced.

Are you British by any chance?

If you are, I'm surprised at your lack of knowledge. Both World Wars were a good chance. Plenty of opportunities throughout history to implement a dictatorship. If you know British history, then you'd known what I'm on about.

.

Good point stumason! I agree . However during those periods in history I don't believe the technology was available to accomodate such a "plan" ie biometric chips, survailence cameras, national id cards, whatever other toys they have.
Also the mind set of the people was alot different then. We(yanks and Brits) had a specific enemy(s) that was foreign to us in the sense that they didn't originate from our own lands. The threat wasn't from within. With all the suffering and loss of the wars, as well as the real threat such as the buzz bombs that terrorized Britian(God bless you guys for withstanding all that).
How could they have justified implementing such plans during the war, and with the lack of people and resources to implement it?I think if our Govt's wanted to conform us to a police state, the conditioning of the citizens would have to be in a way that they convince us "there is no other way".The more terrorist attacks and loss of life we have the more personal the people will take it, and the more willing they will be to give up their rights. Especially in a unique situation, such is the UK today. With the ever growing movement by radical muslims in your neck of the woods, how else would you deal with the threat. ?