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Fight over White House subpoenas rises

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posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by lightseeker
I wish Justin Oldham was involved in this thread. Justin, if you read this, please post your thoughts and ideas and any other actions that I may not have thought of.


So, there I was, minding my own business (I have a witness), and I felt this tremor in the force....so here I am.


Justin, thanks for the advice and insight; I don't have anything like your understanding of how things work in D.C., so you're words were very welcome.

I am also glad you are using your vast powers for good and not evil!




posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by jhanks28cold
Fox news also just reported that Bush has chosen to invoke "executive privilege" in order to keep the two former aides from testifying. I actually started a new thread in response here, as I don't want to derail this thread in response.


Alright people, it's time to get busy. Battle stations, everyone. Justin and I have given you some tools to work with, so let's start using them and go to work. They can't beat us if we stick together.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:34 AM
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People should never be afraid of government, but rather government should be afraid of the people.

Right now we the people has not exercise yet our own power over the government.

The people in this nation is trying to exhaust all the means given to us by our constitution first.

So far is the right way to do but it takes time and it may be too late when that doesn't work anymore.

The only way to save our system of government from the corruption that has taken over is to impeach the president and the vice president.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by lightseeker

This move by the White House to block the damaging testimony by a former WH aide should come as no surprise to anyone who has been following the story. The Bush camp has been continuously and consistantly impeding any investigation into what the real motives were for the White Houses' firings of seven U.S. Attorneys.

The underlying reason for the firings was of course strictly a partisan, political ploy to insert more "right thinking" attorneys into positions of influence, thereby effectively guaranteeing that the Bush agenda is always and consistantly represented. Now, Bush is trying to either impede or possibly subborn the testimony of someone who's words could really spell trouble for the White House.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 7/8/2007 by lightseeker]


Yep.


Just one thing you're missing is the deeper reason why they were fired. The attorneys were fired because they wanted to place more Bush'ites in those positions, yes, but it's all to do with election fraud. Ya see, The Voter Rights Act of 1965 specifically precludes anyone from denying a person to vote based on race, creed, literacy, sex etc. Republicans have been doing for decades now what is known as "caging" which is the mass challenging and blocking people's ability to vote based on those very reasons. Most of them having to do with race (the majority of black voters vote democrat). The GOP actively sends out challengers to impoverished districts with lists of (usually black soldiers serving in Iraq) people to challenge saying they sent a letter to their address to confirm they lived there and then when they didn't get a response back they challenge them saying they aren't who they say there are. Of course these soldiers didn't respond they are in Iraq fighting a war! So when their votes come in in the form of absentee ballots they are thrown out. This also happens with homeless shelters and other lower class dwellings.

Now the Republicans were caught doing this and blocked by the federal court from ever doing it again in (1981? if memory serves) They continue to do it to this day and that's why this issue of firing the attorneys is so important. When Monica Goodling (former WH aide and aide to Karl Rove) testified remember she testified saying that the republicans have been caging voters. The US attorneys that replaced the old ones are loyal to the throne of Bush and would not pursue any case relating to this thereof. That's the kicker. That's what this is really all about.

It's actually a very funny story how this was first brought to the attention of congress and the senate. The investigative reporter Greg Pallast's friend owns websites GeorgeWBush.org and RNC.com. Now when the republicans first tried to get around having their emails looked at they used the RNC server to hide from any prying eyes. Butttttt being the complete and utterly incompetent idiots that they are they sent the emails disclosing the caging lists and such to RNC.com not RNC.org which is the republican national committee website. LOL





This is the guy's website who blew open the caging scandal:

Greg Pallast

Pallast handed over the emails to Conyers on the Senate Judiciary Committee who (hopefully!) will be using them now to help bring down this mess of corruption.



The Senate Judiciary Committee wants to hear from Sara Taylor at its hearing Wednesday and she is willing to talk. Testifying, however, would defy the wishes of the president, "a person whom she admires and for whom she has worked tirelessly for years," lawyer W. Neil Eggleston said.



...And just wth does that mean? Is she subpoenaed and testifying or not?



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by lightseeker
Also, I have seen some of your posts, forestlady, and you handle a keyboard pretty well, yourself.


(Blushes)...

OK that does it, you're going on my "friends' list, Lightseeker.
Thanks to you also!



[edit on 9/7/07 by forestlady]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Now if I was a person who thought that there were evil plots made by our leaders, I would look into the future.

(digs out crystal ball.) Ah, here we go.

"S. Taylor, former aid turned White House liability, found drowned in the Reflecting Pool not far from the Capitol today. Investigators say that the cause of death is unknown at this time, though an unnamed source told reporters that the victim's blood alcohol level was extremely high."

But then, we all know that gypsy fortune tellers lie.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The only way to save our system of government from the corruption that has taken over is to impeach the president and the vice president.


Undoubtedly, you are correct, Marg, but the problem lies in the fact that "the people", don't have the inherent power to impeach a sitting President or VP, only Congress can do that. That is why it is so important that we start taking action in the only way we have to effect change, which is to inundate our elected officials with letters, emails and phone calls and then work like hell to get someone better elected to the job. We can't impeach, on our own but we sure as hell can make sure the bums that are trying to take our rights away get thrown to the curb.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady

Originally posted by lightseeker
Also, I have seen some of your posts, forestlady, and you handle a keyboard pretty well, yourself.


(Blushes)...

OK that does it, you're going on my "friends' list, Lightseeker.
Thanks to you also!


Well, thank you very much forestlady, I'll have to return the favor.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by TheLoony
Does it matter if I am a registered voter or not when sending letters to elected officials? I'm registered in Nevada but haven't lived there in years. Since leaving there I haven't really been in one place long enough to re-register. I can now but not sure if I'm going to be in this state when my lease is up at the end of the year. Since that's only five months away I'm not sure if it's worth it.


It does NOT matter where you are registered to vote. As a U.S. citizen, every member of Congress is YOUR employee because they are payed by your tax dollars. You can write, phone, or e-mail Federal politicians even if they aren't your specific representatives. For that matter, the law allows you to do the same for any local or State politician.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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Well,what can we do to stop this.The fact that the whitehouse can lie and lie and lie and commit so many crimes and not be held accountable is mental.I know for a fact if i went out and killed someone i would be caught,prosecuted and maybe put to death...

What can we do to get these criminals the justice they deserve?its not like were all gonna get together and protest,far to many poeple are "to busy" for such a action..

So what can we honestly do to stop this,dont say protest blah blah because it just wont happen,we have no organization,no real force to go protest.

BTW the wildest part of this ride has yet to come,buckle up and get rdy for a catostrophic attack on us so we can make bush dictater untill he sees fit..

Sigh,Our Founding fathers would be ashamed and disgusted with what we are today..Sure we have a good economy and such but at the cost of many liberties,and many more to come,im sure they would despise bush,there is no doubt in my mind.

I don't think the phone calls will do anything,maybe if theirs tons and tons of calls,bu the avg joe calling will get nothing done,i have called my local goverment many times,you just get a "we will look into it" and thats at most...

[edit on 9-7-2007 by Project_Silo]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 03:35 PM
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As a purely practical matter, the steps I have outlined allow you to use the system for your own benefit. Today's elected leadership fears your vote and your money. the bank on your apathy, and the fact that you'll be so down that you won't use either. Swamping these guys with legitimate complaints that they are mandated to answer while at the same time propping up the soecialist groups that will do what you can't will generate a poliitcal backlash that...combined with your vote...will cause a lot of those corrupt people to lose their jobs. You can't drag them out in to the streets and shoot 'em, but you can make them unemployed...or...atleast no longer on the public's dime.

Not enough? Why not? These guys are using the system against you. Why not use it against them? We should always choose ballots instead of bullets. Some day, we may not have that choice. For now, we do. A few bucks worth of paper and a few stamps along with a spoonful of electricity for e-mail can't hurt you, but it can hurt them. If the public outcry is large enough, even the MSM will have to report on it. When they do, others will stop feeling sorry for themselves and join in.

All of this pays off when we go to the polls. We may very well be choosing the lesser of two evils...but that can change if better people run for office. Evil succeeds when good men do nothing, and its always easier to say, "it won't work" than it is to get your hands dirty with this nasty problem.

If you wrote and phoned already, tell everyone that you did it and encourge them to do it, too. It's a numbers things. If enough of us register our disapproval, we will be heard. If we vote to make change in large numbers, we will be heard. If we embrace negative thinking, they win. Which would make them feel pretty good about themselves.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by Justin Oldham]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
All of this pays off when we go to the polls. We may very well be choosing the lesser of two evils...but that can change if better people run for office. Evil succeeds when good men do nothing, and its always easier to say, "it won't work" than it is to get your hands dirty with this nasty problem.

If you wrote and phoned already, tell everyone that you did it and encourge them to do it, too. It's a numbers things. If enough of us register our disapproval, we will be heard. If we vote to make change in large numbers, we will be heard. If we embrace negative thinking, they win. Which would make them feel pretty good about themselves.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by Justin Oldham]


Thank you, Justin. As usual it is thoughtful and timely advice that is much needed these days. I sincerely appreciate your input.

Better people will almost surely run for office if they see that the people of this country will not tolerate anything but candidates who really want to make a difference and not just a buck at their expense. The most important thing is for citizens to start actually caring more about how their country is being run than how the next episode of "Lost" will turn out. I get so angry and sad when I hear people say, " Well, what's the use, we can't change anything anyway" or "Those people are just too powerful to take on", Please!

I for one am ready for action and I urge all who see this thread to take action as well. For the love of all that's right and good about America, Take a stand and stop letting TPTB walk all over you like a doormat! I will be heard and I will be heard clearly. There will be no cause for confusion or evasion as to what I will say to those whom I have elected to office and whose salaries and retirement funds I pay for. Ditto for what I expect them to do about it. There is strength in numbers, as Justin so rightly pointed out.

I pray to God that you will all join me in the fight.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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Lightseeker- Im with you my friend


Sadest part is that you are correct in saying that citizens dont care. I've been trying to plant seeds from the bottom up, but noone wants to hear it. Actually, most of the time Im just laughed at, which in return I explain how Ill be laughing at them when our country 'implants you with chips', 'creates war in our back yards', ect.

Apparently all of those material consumer goods are more important then securing a future for generations to come.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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Alrighty then, I'd like to suggest that you political commandos talk to each other by u2. Crank up your blogs ,and talk honestly and openly about what you do, when you do it. Share what you learn, and use what other peole teach you.

When you start discussion threads here on ATS, remember that RSS feed will send them around the world. Be very precise in your title when you start these threads, and don't be afraid to link in all the news articles that you can find, as they pop up. Feed your threads with new material as it pops up. Blog, blog blog. Remember that most people don't know what you know...right now.

ATS now provides you with the options to post videos and Mp3 podcasts. It's free, so use it. Please...just think it through before you do it. ATS is all about bring the truth in to the light. Let the other guy rant. You should use the news and your opinions about the news to make your points. Truth really is stranger than fiction. In the same way that conspiracies recruit and have allies, you can do the same thing. Gang up and pool your resources for one really good thread, if you have to. When everybody chips in..."they" lose and "we" win.

Here's one more thing you can do. Every other week or so, take a look and see what kind of Google hits you generate. Remember that those hits can be seen by anyone at any time around the world. If you put out a lot of smart stuff, you could develop a following of smart readers who might just be inspired...by you...to do "stuff." How's that for your very own global conspiracy? Don't believe me? Click on the links in my sig and see how its done.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by Justin Oldham]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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Update On Congressional Investigation


WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush directed former aides to defy congressional subpoenas on Monday, claiming executive privilege and prodding lawmakers closer to their first contempt citations against administration officials since Ronald Reagan was president.

It was the second time in as many weeks that Bush had cited executive privilege in resisting Congress' investigation into the firings of U.S. attorneys.
Source

Now, Bush and Company are asserting Executive Priveledge, which means that they are very, very concerned about what Ms. Taylor might say to Congress. As Deputy Chief of Staff, she was closer to the President than any other staffer, except Chief of Staff, Karl Rove. Also, as Director of Political Affairs for the White House, she knows where all the bodies are buried. What she can reveal to Congress, should she testify, could potentially be catastrophic to Bush and the Attorney General, Antonio Gonzales.

The question is, will she testify? Senator Patrick Leahy, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he expects her to testify, despite the mandate from the White House that she refuse. She has a very hard decision to make and it is probably a no-win situation for her either way: either she testifies, in which case she faces possible reprisals from The White House, or she refuses and is found in contempt of Congress and is labeled a Bush syncophant or worse.

In either case, the Judiciary Committee is not going to make it easy for either, Sara Taylor, Harriet Miers or the White House. House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers stated today:
"Contrary to what the White House may believe, it is the Congress and the courts that will decide whether an invocation of executive privilege is valid, not the White House unilaterally,"

Meanwhile, the White House is refusing to even provide Congress with an accounting of which documents they are withholding, again citing Executive priledge. The White House might just as well have said, "We know we are guilty of something, but we're sure as hell not going to let you see what that something is".

Harriet Miers is scheduled to testify on Wednesday; who knows when or if she will show up or if she will give up any information that can hurt the White House.

Additional links:

MSNBC
ABC News
Bloomberg



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:48 PM
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In addition to writing to specific people in government, you can also write to...committee chair-persons. Google the committee, and look at their home page. Why drop a line to a committee? More of your own political pressure. Tell them what you want...and why you want it. If they know thatthey have public support, they might try harder. Hey, if they can manipulate you...you can manipulate them.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
So, there I was, minding my own business (I have a witness), and I felt this tremor in the force....so here I am.

Was it a "tremor in the Force," or was it a U2U?
Either way, it doesn't really matter...I, for one, am glad to see you made it here.



Originally posted by jhanks28cold
Fox news also just reported that Bush has chosen to invoke "executive privilege" in order to keep the two former aides from testifying. I actually started a new thread in response here, as I don't want to derail this thread in response.

Considering that the info I'm posting in this reply concerns Bush's "executive priviledge," feel free to Quote me from here & post the info there...But I won't "cross-post" between these two threads on my own.


Originally posted by Project_Silo
What can we do to get these criminals the justice they deserve?its not like were all gonna get together and protest,far to many poeple are "to busy" for such a action..

Well, Congressional or Judicial Subpoenas seems to be a step in the right direction. Perhaps, when people write/call their Official Officeholders, they could detail specific points ask if such concerns would be worthy of further subpeonas; then maybe the Bush Administration would get so bogged down in legal hassles that the plans for the NWO may be severely stalled or perhaps even cancelled!
Some legal details about subpoenas that I dug up are down lower in this post.

Please note that, when you see (italics within parenthesis) in the External Source section below, this designates additional info that I had to insert to make it more readable. Again, this is the only editing that I did to the original source-text.


Source: Supreme Law Firm
Specifically, laws governing the federal courts authorize parties to compel answers to SUBPOENAs, and to move those courts for sanctions such as contempt of court. Recently, another member of President George Bush’s cabinet was held in contempt by a federal district court; thus, ample court precedent exists to hold O’Neill (Secretary of the Treasury) in contempt of court ‑‑ for not answering (to specific supeonas concerning the illegality of the IRS & the Income Tax Codes). Only time will tell if such contempt proceedings will escalate to the level of a criminal investigation.
On a much broader scale, the absence of liability statutes raises the specter of widespread government fraud, going all the way back to the year 1913. And, there is no statute of limitations on fraud.

Even though the specific info here pertains directly to the Income Tax Fraud (as discussed in several other threads here at ATS), it also includes the fact that Bush (or anyone else) cannot ignore Judicial subpoenas without risking charges of Contempt of Court! No such thing as Executive Priviledge! Attempting to do so may even constitute additional charges of "obstruction of justice" as well as "contempt of Congress" or "contempt of Court."

What I'm not fully clear on in this case is whether or not Bush/Cheney/Taylor are currently facing Congressional Supoenas or if they are Judicial Supoenas...Another point that's not immediately clear here is whether or not a Congressional Supoena (in this particular case) would carry the same weight of penalties as would a Court Subpoena. From the wording & context of that excerpt, it sounds like it's actually Congress pushing the subpoenas, but they're being backed by Court Authority.
I'm still looking into this, but if someone else can find it first, feel free to post your info (& Source) here.

Basically, Justin's been very good at defining the path in the wilderness...I'm just describing the wilderness through which the path must be forged. It's up to the individuals to actually walk the path. Please remember that ATS is "neutral territory," meaning that it's fine to discuss issues & info here but any true action must be done elsewhere. I personally don't want to see anyone (myself included!) get banned from ATS for violating ATS' neutrality.


Originally posted by marg6043
The only way to save our system of government from the corruption that has taken over is to impeach the president and the vice president.

...And, IMO, a lot of Congress & the Courts as well. If everyone who has, being shown by documented records, been corrupted away from obedience to the Constitution were to be impeached all at once, I think Ron Paul will find Washington D.C. to be a very lonely place to work...



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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hi, interesting discussion....been following along

just wanted to make a suggestion here....

alot of events seem to fly under the news media's radar. I think we all have noticed this. important events, like the planning of the amero and such.

many of us here feel the way we do, not so much because of what the mainstream media has reported, but rather, what we have gleaned off of alternate news sources online. most people don't have the time, or interest to do this I think. they are satisfied with just watching their hour long news caste and going on their way.

so, here's my suggestion, since well, you're all into writing letters....

whenever you run across an important news event that the mainstream media seems to have completely missed...write them, and express your interest in the story.. maybe if enough people do this they will come to the conclusion that it isn't paris hilton we are interested in, but rather...we're interested in real important issues.
but, well, you're gonna need alot of letter writers to have an effect on the dc crowd...and half the population just isn't informed enough to react to much of anything....the media picked up the immigration issue and ran with it, and the reaction of the public was so overwelming, it jammed their phone system!! it's a powerfull tool, if we could just get it to work for us a little better.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar

alot of events seem to fly under the news media's radar. I think we all have noticed this. important events, like the planning of the amero and such.



You are right dawstar, media has become very selective every time something as important as the push of the amero (something that I am following very close and making sure I have my say so when the bill comes to the table . . .

Paris Hilton and other issues that sells ratings seems to block important issues in our nation that will affect us directly.

Media has prove to be in our nation just like in any other control by the government nation . . . you only get what others feels is important for you to see on braking news.

But remember always read the small letters under the channel head lines there is where most of the important news has been relegated lately.


So people can not say that media is fix and control.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 08:05 AM
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[edit on 10-7-2007 by marg6043]




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