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The truth about the Roswell Incident

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posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
Marcel's book is just now being published and should be available any day now. It's an excellent read and explains alot. Marcel, Jr. is no idiot, either.

You realize Marcel Jr. was only 11 years old at the time and he didn't start coming out with his wild stories until long after his Dad died in 1986 right?




posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
You realize Marcel Jr. was only 11 years old at the time and he didn't start coming out with his wild stories until long after his Dad died in 1986 right?


Careful AD, you are going to get yourself in a bind with that. Marcel Jr.'s report of an I-beam with the "hieroglyphic-like" imprints on it can be a great piece of testimony that helps prove that the "crash" was part of a MOGUL balloon. If he's telling "wild stories" then it's pretty amazing he made up a part that sounds extremely similar to what was part of a MOGUL balloon.

Being an 11 year old doesn't mean much. I can remember my first "race track" as a kid at 8 years old on Xmas day (a big day in my young life!). I'm sure Jr. can remember the parts that he handled. Whatever story he says afterward is of course debatable.



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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Atomic its easy for him to repeat what his dad said. Bessie Brazel gives a fantastic description of the debris... but its never published in any roswell books. www.roswellfiles.com...



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
Atomic its easy for him to repeat what his dad said.


Sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying here. He didn't handle the material but is creating a story with what his dad told him? Sheridan Cavitt's wife says in Cavitt's official statement (The Roswell Report), that she remembered Jessie Sr, his wife, and Jessie Jr. trying to burn a piece on a cookout that they had. I don't think she would make that up since the Marcels and Cavitts were friends.

My guess then is that Jr. did handle some of the material. I can't tell you 100% that he handled an I-beam but I can't say the same for Bessie either.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying.

edit to source...edited again because my cut and paste function "crashed".

[edit on 7/8/07 by Atomic]

[edit on 7/8/07 by Atomic]



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Atomic
Careful AD, you are going to get yourself in a bind with that. Marcel Jr.'s report of an I-beam with the "hieroglyphic-like" imprints on it can be a great piece of testimony that helps prove that the "crash" was part of a MOGUL balloon. If he's telling "wild stories" then it's pretty amazing he made up a part that sounds extremely similar to what was part of a MOGUL balloon.

I agree with you Atomic but Marcel Jr. has gone far beyond that innocent childhood story…

www.marceljr.com...

Like many others he’s figured out how to profit from the Roswell myth by “inserting” himself into the story beyond his actual involvement and telling people what they want to hear.



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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AD read the book before you try to debunk it. All of your questions will be answered in it. Marcel Sr. was forced by the govt to say it wasn't a UFO. But what he told his son was that the material "was not of this earth." Now if it indeed was ordinary balsa wood and other commonplace materials don't you think that Marcel would have known what it was?

Marcel Jr. didn't come forward until now because he was in the military and didn't want to lose his job as a flight surgeon. So he just published his book, 2 1/2 years after he finished the military and retired. A retired flight surgeon from the military, especially after being in the military all his life, would be receiving quite a handsome pension and good pay while he was in the military as well. Why would he need the money?

Besides that, most books submitted to publishers don't make any real money. I know alot of authors, being in the publishing industry, and only one of them have made any substantial amounts of money and that wasn't all that substantial. The bestsellers makes tons, but the vast majority of published books don't. He himself says he wrote the book to clear his dad's name, because he respected his dad's life work and was sick of him being called a liar.

So read the book, because it addresses and debunks what you are saying about the Marcels, AccessDenied.

To address someone else's post, this 11 y.o. kid was a science buff, as was his father. Marcel, Jr. later built his own seismograph.

Jesse Marcel, Jr. is the only living person who has actually handled the debris.



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
FWIW I can tell you that I work at one of the facilities identified in the DP briefing document as being involved in ARVs and although it’s more than likely we would be the ones who would be working on it if in fact an alien spaceship had ever been retrieved, I can personally assure you this claim serves as an endless source of amusement for us.


Access Denied's Resume:


Aug. 82 to June 84 - St. Petersburg Junior College, St. Petersburg, Florida

A.S. Electronic Engineering Technology


Employment History (most recent)


Oct. 93 to present - Instrumentation Specialist - Engineering Research and Consultants, Inc., Research in Propulsion Sciences, Air Force Research Laboratory, Edwards AFB, California. Continued involvement in basic research being conducted by the High Temperature Components Group for the Propulsion Materials Applications Branch of the Space and Missile Propulsion Division of the AFRL Propulsion Directorate. Responsibilities include the design, operation, maintenance, modification and repair of various experimental electro-mechanical systems in use by the group.



AD. From the looks of your resume you are a computer/wiring technician working for Suzan Wu (ERC).



originally posted by AccessDenied
FWIW I can tell you that I work at one of the facilities identified in the DP briefing document as being involved in ARVs



originally posted by AccessDenied
it’s more than likely we would be the ones who would be working on it if in fact an alien spaceship had ever been retrieved


AD, how do you figure Engineering Research and Consultants, Inc. (Susan Wu) ‘would be the ones who would be working on it if in fact an alien spaceship had ever been retrieved?’

Or do you mean that because ERC has a small contract with AFRL that if AFRL got an alien spaceship that they would give it to ERC to back engineer?

I'm not buying that. But thanks for the post anyway.


Admin edit: The above quotes are sourced from neverworld.net...

[edit on 9-7-2007 by SimonGray]



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
I'm not buying that. But thanks for the post anyway.


I'm not surprised you aren’t since you obviously haven’t done your homework John. If you had you would have posted something like the mission statement of the facility I work at, not my resume you copied off of my website.
Who signs my paychecks and what I do for a living has nothing to do it. You’re just grasping at straws. It’s the unique expertise and mission we have that you failed to grasp.

Here let's see if I can make it easier for you to understand….

Air Force Research Laboratory Propulsion Directorate
www.pr.afrl.af.mil...


This AFRL organization provides "one-stop shopping" for all forms of propulsion science and technology of interest to the Air (and space) Force -- turbine and rocket engines, advanced propulsion systems, and the propellants they run on. The directorate is also responsible for most forms of power technology (other than that required for spacecraft), making it one of the nation’s leaders in the field of energetics. Program emphasis is on meeting future Air Force needs while keeping current systems competitive and affordable.

The Air Force Research Laboratory's (AFRL) Propulsion Directorate personnel and research and development, as well as its test and evaluation facilities, offer numerous unique features and opportunities.

The Propulsion Directorate develops propulsion and related technologies for the Air Force including: turbine and rocket engines, advanced propulsion systems, fuels, propellants, and lubricants, and aircraft power. The Directorate is headquartered at the Wright Research Site, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, and supplemented by additional personnel and research facilities located at Edwards Research Site, Edwards Air Force Base, California.

You obviously have absolutely no clue what you're talking about when it comes to how the military does Research & Development in Science & Technology. Where are all those alleged government insiders that keep you informed now John?


P.S. “Area 51” is a detachment of the AFFTC at Edwards AFB for doing Test & Evaluation not basic R&D. You and Bob sure blew that one… you guessed the wrong place!


[edit on 8-7-2007 by Access Denied]



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
He himself says he wrote the book to clear his dad's name, because he respected his dad's life work and was sick of him being called a liar.

That doesn’t make any sense. Why would he need to sell a book to “clear” his Dad’s name? He already has a website, why didn’t he just post the information there? Or better yet, post it for free on ATS?


There’s another problem, no matter what he says, his Dad is still a proven liar…

THE "MYTH" OF MAJOR JESSIE MARCEL
www.roswellfiles.com...


Claim:Jesse Marcel claimed that he had been a pilot since 1928 and had over 3000 hours of piloting time.

Reality: The FAA, which has complete records going back to well before 1928 has never heard of Jesse Marcel.

Reality: His Reserve Officer Career Brief, dated 20 Nov 47, lists his flying experience as "none".

Reality: His application for appointment as a 2nd Lieut. (completed and signed by Marcel in Jan 1942) doesn't doesn't support this claim.

Reality: His Classification Questionnaire (completed and signed by Marcel in Feb 1942) goes out of the way to list such talents as photography and amateur radio, acting in high school and community plays, and singing in a quartet doesn't mention any experience as a pilot! One would think that being a pilot would be of more value to the Air Force and the war effort than singing in a quartet.

Claim: Marcel claimed he was an aid to Gen. Hap Arnold and that it was Hap Arnold who decided he should go to intelligence school.

Reality: Marcel applied for an appointment as a second lieutentant when he was still working for Shell Oil Co. His first assignment in the military was as a student at the Army Air Forces Intelligence School (AAFIS) in Harrisburg, Pa. The decision to send him to intelligence school had been made prior to his entering the service.

Claim: Marcel claimed that he had been awarded five Air Medals.

Reality: Marcel was awarded two Air Medals.

Claim: He shot down five enemy airplanes.

Reality: There is absolutely no evidence in his personnel file (almost 200 pages) which supports him shooting down even one enemy airplane.

Claim: Marcel claimed that he didn't find out about his promotion to Lt. Col in the Reserves until after he left the service because "They kept me so busy I never looked at my personnel files."

Reality: Marcel applied for the promotion of Lt. Col. in a letter from him to the commanding officer of the 509th bomb group on 29 Oct 47. By letter dated 20 Nov 47, Marcel was informed that his REQUESTED promotion in the reserves was approved but that it would be canceled unless he accepted it by signing the oath "within a reasonable time". Marcel signed the oath on 1 Dec 47 thereby accepting the appointment officially!

Claim: Marcel claimed that he had a bachelor's degree in physics from George Washington University and had attended universities LSU, NYU, and OSU.

Reality: Marcel initially claimed on forms in his personnel file that he had attended LSU for one year as a non-credit student. This later grew to one and a half years. LSU has no records of Marcel, although they do have records of his son. GWU has no record of his ever attending let alone graduating with a degree in physics. At the request of Robert Todd, they conducted a second search with the same results.

Claim: Marcel claimed he was transferred to Washington during the latter part of 1947. This statement is frequently used, along with the promotion in the reserves, by some people as back up for the claim that his superiors were giving him extra responsibility right after the Roswell incident.

Reality: Marcel was transferred to SAC Hq on 16 Aug 48.

Claim:Marcel claimed that "I wrote the very report President Truman read on the air declaring that Russia had exploded an atomic device."

Reality:Truman didn't read any report on radio about this. Further, Top Secret records from AFOAT-1 do not include Marcel's name anywhere in the records reporting the Soviet A-Bomb explosion. The copy of the White House statement shows no evidence that Marcel had anything to do with it either.

Claim: Marcel claimed in the movie "UFOs Are Real" that the newsmen in General Ramey's office wanted him to tell them about it but "I couldn't say anything. And, when the General came in, he told me not to say anything - that he would handle it." (Friedman came on next and claimed that "We have verified every statement by Jesse Marcel.")

Reality: J. Bond Johnson, the reporter for the Fort Worth Morning Star wrote "...according to Maj. Jesse A. Marcel, Houma, La..." and "...Maj Jesse Marcel related..." The article contains info which would have had to come from Marcel.

Claim: "General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a picture of the stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own. They they allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aids."

Reality: The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris! Further, there was no way for General Ramey to have gotten a non-pigmented weather balloon that had been out in the sun for three weeks in that short of a time. Further, the Fort Worth AAF and Roswell AAF weren't using those weather balloons or targets so where did he get one from anyway? They didn't even have the radars to use the targets with if they had managed to get one. The debris in the photo of Jesse Marcel shows debris that matches what was described by Mac Brazel in the RDR. "The newsmen saw very little of the real material, very small portion of it. And none of the really important things like these members that had these hieroglyphics on them. They (the newsmen) wanted me to tell them about it and I couldn't say anything. And when the General came in, he told me to to say anything - that he would handle it." (UFOs are Real, May 1979) Statement Marcel made that was cut from the flick: "As far as newspeople, I never talked to any of them." (See comment about J. Bond Johnson's articles)

How is Marcel Jr. going to change all of that without lying too?



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 08:54 AM
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Funny how in the picture with the supposed "debris", Marcel has this little smirk on his face as if saying at the time of the photo..."whew, good thing I got this material to cover my a$$" Actually, I'm not certain why back then we displayed Top Secret material to the public so willingly, " Well ya see folks, this is all it was...part of our Project...., can we all just go back to what we were doing now?"
I'm in intel and i'd like to think that we dont just display supposedly classified material to the masses just to pacify their investigations. Burned, shredded, crumpled or in whatever state the debris is found in. But of course I cannot say for sure as there are far too many classified projects out there. There is a "handling of classified material" guidline that we go by though..the way the are showing this debris is just too fishy to me. I'd like more answers (facts) too just as the debunkers, skeptics and supportive (of a coverup) people like myself here on ATS. Hopefully there is some credence with the latest book from Jr. Good luck to all looking for the same..



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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AccessDenied, I appreciate the effort you've gone to to present information. I went to the website in your link. But I couldn't find anything that backs up this information. There's no author cited, no source and nothing in the way of evidence. It's just a bunch of statements anyone could have made up. Did I miss something?



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by USAF1N051
I'm in intel and i'd like to think that we dont just display supposedly classified material to the masses just to pacify their investigations.


Can you clarify what you mean by 'I'm in intel'?


Burned, shredded, crumpled or in whatever state the debris is found in. But of course I cannot say for sure as there are far too many classified projects out there. There is a "handling of classified material" guidline that we go by though..the way the are showing this debris is just too fishy to me.


Well, seems to me if you were 'in intel' you'd know the difference between secret materials and a secret project (purpose).

Thanks!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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hello there Badge... I meant by being both in Army Intel 96B intelligence analyst from 89-93) and present day Air Force Intelligence 1N051, Intelligence Applications Analyst... Oh and I do know the difference just thought I share just a tidbit of my own experiences...but that doesnt mean I know all there is or have the highest clearance either...



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 10:46 AM
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Hi,

Thanks for the kind reply.

Anyway, there's your answer. If it was a top secret project involving a rawin balloon then the materials would not be secret and could be displayed.

They just couldn't talk about the use of the radar reflectors.

I'm not sure I believe the project Mogul explanation, and at first it seemed odd to me that they'd go ahead and display the materials. As you probably know we tend to go overboard in declaring things secret.

Good to see you on the board.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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hey thanks for the explaination Badge01, I have to admit, there is a dizzying amount of information to decipher from each member here on the topic, no matter how they view it...I was a little confused about just what Marcel was trying to show is all...or better yet, speculative showing. I tend to have an open mind and try to think logically on all these fantastic topics. Fact is, we are all led down different paths when trying to unearth the truth and it seems that each person is passionate about which path they chose here on ATS on the subject matter. Thanks for all the input everyone all of it is equally valuable to the reader.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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But I couldn't find anything that backs up this information. There's no author cited, no source and nothing in the way of evidence.


much of it is from the interview Bob Pratt done with Marcel for the national enquirer in 1979- hope that helps


[edit on 9-7-2007 by yeti101]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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Yeti, thanks for the info. But what I want to know now is - how did Bob Pratt discover the info from Marcel wasn't accurate? (If indeed he did)



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:49 PM
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Ehm..hi, just watching here, so don't feel disturbed.

But one short question, if



Reality: His Reserve Officer Career Brief, dated 20 Nov 47, lists his flying experience as "none".


how can he be awarded two airmedals, when the Criteria for these looks like :
Quoted from www.gruntsmilitary.com...



The Air Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the armed forces of the United States, shall have distinguished himself by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight.


I don't know about military awards, but this sounds wobbly to me.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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how did Bob Pratt discover the info from Marcel wasn't accurate? (If indeed he did)


from what i can tell Karl Pflock done most of the legwork on the Bob Pratt interview. He published the findings in his book "roswell in perspective" 1994


[edit on 9-7-2007 by yeti101]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Phil J. Fry




Ehm..hi, just watching here, so don't feel disturbed.
But one short question, if



Reality: His Reserve Officer Career Brief, dated 20 Nov 47, lists his flying experience as "none".


how can he be awarded two airmedals, when the Criteria for these looks like :
Quoted from www.gruntsmilitary.com...



The Air Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the armed forces of the United States, shall have distinguished himself by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight/fight.


I don't know about military awards, but this sounds wobbly to me.



He could have been a gunner and participated in an aerial flight. A gunner is not considered 'flying experience'. It may be considered 'flying in an experience' but thats not the same.


My, my. my. Poor Jesse. I wonder what they're going to say about me when I'm dead and gone to the Big Soul Machine On the Moon?



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