The 2012 Doom Factor (The Pole Shift will wipe us out)

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The upshot: There will be no pole shift again unless a large body from space comes near or strikes this planet and/or there is another high-tech war which leads to a global nuclear holocaust

Originally posted by omelette
I was very surprised when I first learnt (via the Net) about the possible evidence of ancient nuclear wars that has been found - no book/magazine that I had ever read before that had even hinted at such an event! Is this something else that has been kept from widespread public scrutiny for fear nuclear energy might be seen in a bad light?

The Net has all kinds of wonderful and insightful information and more emerges as time goes on.

The fear of nuclear energy being seen in a bad light appears to be a side issue. The main issue is in delaying public awareness that there were ancient atomic wars. For if one learns that, then one may learn other things, like the possibility that one or more of those ancient nuclear wars/explosions were caused by aliens. Then they would have to admit there were and are aliens - something various covert facets of the government go to great length to conceal.

Time for some logical extrapolation...

Ancient India considered Atlantis to be imperialistic and to have weapons that could level an entire city. The quote that I have in my previous post about an ancient city in India exhibiting the signs of a nuclear detonation - like the radiation - may indeed be the result of a battle between India and Atlantis.

But that's not all.

Atlantis was considered to be the most formidable nation on the planet and they had their forces spread far and wide. Then Atlantean civilization was suddenly wiped out. That doesn't make sense unless they had a war with a power much greater than themselves. And the only power that could have been greater than themselves at that time-frame would had to be of extraterrestrial origin.

The same race of aliens who purportedly, thousands of years ago, mixed their DNA with the "already evolving hominids" here in order to come up with Homo sapiens. This Colonialism or Interventionism of aliens in jumpstarting Homo sapien life here is corroborated by the archaeological conclusions of Zecharia Sitchin. It is also verified indirectly by the US Air Force through the testimony of Linda Moulton Howe who was invited to a USAF base in New Mexico and shown a top secret document that outlined covert investigations into the crashes of extraterrestrial spacecraft and the retrieval of aliens bodies, both dead and alive.

Sitchin's archaeological findings, in having deciphered ancient Akkadian and the older Sumerian clay tablets, point to the initial motivation of the aliens: to have slaves to work the mines, as they were seen to be more economical than using robots. It was also gleaned that the first Homo sapiens could not reproduce. With continued genetic tampering by the aliens (that the Sumerians referred to as the Anunnaki or "Those Who From Heaven To Earth Came), that problem was amended.

References:

Zecharia Sitchin Website

Homo Sapiens Contain 223 Alien Genes

The Companion Tape To The Mysterious Origins Of Man Documentary That Contains The Testimony Of Linda Moulton Howe

Originally posted by omelette
That said, I don't think the nuclear thing could account for the periodic poleshifts that geology has shown to have occurred in the past. Much more likely imo to be a result of some cosmic event, such as suggested in the OP video - or a large body passing too close...

The current geological paradigm is that catastrophic land changes and horrific environmental changes all occur cyclically. I don't agree. It would have to either have been a large celestial body coming too close, a meteor collision, or a nuclear war. These things don't happen by themselves. The world is actually quite stable gravitationally and environmentally.

Originally posted by omelette
Even though Einstein was a proponent of Charles Hapgood's theory of Earth Crust Displacement being the cause of poleshifts, it's hard to see how, with the polar caps supposedly melting atm, that this could trigger it this time...

Exactly

It never triggered it.

To embrace the idea that ancient nuclear wars may have caused pole shifts is a line of reasoning that most wish to avoid. Doing so would invariably lead to a re-writing of our fundamental understanding of history, science, and geology. Most figure it is best to not make waves, avoid ridicule, and avoid losing face with the prevailing scientific community (and also avoid losing their jobs).

But I don't care since I am not part of the prevailing scientific community and have nothing to lose in examining history objectively.



[edit on 4-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]

I too watched this video with great interest, very nicely done. Key points were brought forward that shed light on our past and our future. The signs are clearly there as seen by this article from the National Geographic Society.

Personally I am humbled into believing what is presented simply because I don't pocess the knowledge to dispute it. Like going to see the Doctor, I can't dispute his diagnosis because I trust him to learn and know his craft. Are we so arrogant as to ignore this or should we encourage the minds who hold the knowledge to investigate this further. I for one would like to know if my children are heading into the stoneage.

Even Nasa is weighing in on this subject.

Chao and Gross have been routinely calculating earthquakes' effects in changing the Earth's rotation in both length-of-day as well as changes in Earth's gravitational field. They also study changes in polar motion that is shifting the North Pole. The "mean North pole" was shifted by about 2.5 centimeters (1 inch) in the direction of 145º East Longitude. This shift east is continuing a long-term seismic trend identified in previous studies.

Source

[edit on 4/7/07 by Rhain]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard


Homo Sapiens Contain 223 Alien Genes

OK I read this one link, and nowhere in it does the writer give a link whereby we can access his source. I would like to read the original article, instead of the weird hypothesis of someone with an agenda of proving that humans are alien or nephilim hybrids, something that I find extremely dubious and bordering on ridiculous wishful thinking.

I would like to see if the scientists describe these genes that we got from bacteria are junk DNA or if these genes have any effect on our development whatsoever, for one.

Bacteria exchange DNA with each other all the time and I don't think it's far fetched at all to think that we're carrying bacteria DNA around in the portion of our genome that is essentially unused by us as organisms.

Jumping to the conclusion that maybe we gave the DNA to bacteria, because we got it from aliens/nephilim/the tooth fairy/whatever sounds nuts. Occam's Razor would preclude something so intricately complex in favor of the obvious, simple answer: bacteria that people have been infected with down through the ages have left their mark on our genome. Might even explain why we diverged the way we did from the common chimp-human ancestor.

But believe we are alien hybrids, I will not. We are of this planet, nowhere else.

MajorMalfunction,

Get yourself a copy of The Mysterious Origins of Man, including The Companion Tape which has the important interview with Linda Moulton Howe. That will help to clarify the situation.

You also might want to e-mail the webmaster of Sitchin's site for more information regarding your inquiry about the 223 alien gene connection.

Being biologically related to aliens is not a big deal to me. However, I do not side with the idea, as many do, that a biological relation equates to a spiritual connection. And I don't believe that the aliens are our spiritual masters. Far from it Their actions indicate that they are Service-To-Self (STS) oriented and spiritually retarded.

Another reference:

Dr. Roger Leir Says That 223 Human Genes Are Extratererestrial In Origin



[edit on 5-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Paul_Richard, I appreciate the links, there's some good reading there.

Get yourself a copy of The Mysterious Origins of Man, including The Companion Tape which has the important interview with Linda Moulton Howe. That will help to clarify the situation.

I have seen this vid. and what really fascinated me was the part about the dinosaur footprints - it's one thing to be told about dino/human co-existing in the same era, quite another to see dino/human footprints that run under ancient riverbeds being excavated 'live' by a renowned archaeologist!!!

...Far from it Their actions indicate that they are Service-To-Self (STS) oriented and spiritually retarded.

I would respectfully have to disagree with this statement though. Were one to assume that only one variety of ET frequents this rock, the fact that they have not taken over and banished us to the hills would suggest that they are far more spiritual beings. It's probable that we are being visited by far more than one variety but still, we are not peering out of the bushes at some other owner/occupier - why?
IMO either 'they' are all either far more spiritual than we are or there are more 'goodies' than 'baddies' and the latter are being kept at bay.

Unpalatable as it may be, history shows us to be savage materialistic creatures - the strong have always conquered the weak, and all that entails. Though one could argue that we are more 'civilised' now, it could also be said that the oppression has just changed form - what's the statistic, 5% of people own 90% of everything...

Were we really a spiritual people this statistic would not be allowed to exist. Something akin to the 'Hundredth Monkey Effect' would take hold and we'd rid ourselves of this small group in short order.

Unfortunately, reaching that critical threshold seems a long way off

Originally posted by omelette
Paul_Richard, I appreciate the links, there's some good reading there.

Sure...anytime.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Get yourself a copy of The Mysterious Origins of Man, including The Companion Tape which has the important interview with Linda Moulton Howe. That will help to clarify the situation.

Originally posted by omelette
I have seen this vid. and what really fascinated me was the part about the dinosaur footprints - it's one thing to be told about dino/human co-existing in the same era, quite another to see dino/human footprints that run under ancient riverbeds being excavated 'live' by a renowned archaeologist!!!

Agreed.

The interview with LMH is also illuminating. To my knowledge, the Companion Tape was never shown on network television.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
...Far from it Their actions indicate that they are Service-To-Self (STS) oriented and spiritually retarded.

Originally posted by omelette
I would respectfully have to disagree with this statement though. Were one to assume that only one variety of ET frequents this rock, the fact that they have not taken over and banished us to the hills would suggest that they are far more spiritual beings. It's probable that we are being visited by far more than one variety but still, we are not peering out of the bushes at some other owner/occupier - why?
IMO either 'they' are all either far more spiritual than we are or there are more 'goodies' than 'baddies' and the latter are being kept at bay.

You assume that since they have not officially taken us over or destroyed us, that they must be benign. Many have come to the same conclusion.

However, governmental insiders like retired Army Sgt. Clifford Stone have said that there are various fully-operational underwater and underground alien bases around this planet - "twelve or fewer" was his exact wording. A member of the Disclosure Project has also stated that there is a large alien base in the Moon.

Their actions point to them harvesting or subjugating this planet and its peoples. They do not wish to destroy their large Homo sapien farming operation.

A number of abductees have pointed out that the aliens have told them that this world is rich in raw genetic material.

Using people here for slaves, for a long-term breeding program, for an occasional dissection, and also to use their glandular extracts as vitamin supplements (with also indications that Homo sapiens may be used as Reptilian food), all point to the aliens in question to be Service-To-Self (STS) oriented and hostile to us.

Originally posted by omelette
Unpalatable as it may be, history shows us to be savage materialistic creatures - the strong have always conquered the weak, and all that entails. Though one could argue that we are more 'civilised' now, it could also be said that the oppression has just changed form - what's the statistic, 5% of people own 90% of everything...

REVOLUTION does seem to loom over the horizon. That can be a good thing.

Originally posted by omelette
Were we really a spiritual people this statistic would not be allowed to exist. Something akin to the 'Hundredth Monkey Effect' would take hold and we'd rid ourselves of this small group in short order.

We are not a spiritual people. It is up to the individual to live a spiritual life in a world of darkness. That is a test of character.

Originally posted by omelette
Unfortunately, reaching that critical threshold seems a long way off

I don't think there is such a thing as a critical threshold but by raising conscousness on an individual basis, those individuals can eventually start their own spiritually-based civilization.

It's a pretty big Universe.

Personally I think you guys are getting way off track here. Despite my beliefs and thoughts in other threads, I did not make any reference to God or aliens in my initial post. Why? Because I knew that it would digress into an unprovable argument that was better suited to other forums. I was hoping that this could be looked at from a purely scientific point of view. Or at the least a mostly scientific point of view. Go back and watch the video again. He doesn't mention aliens, Planet X, or deity of any sort. All topics do not mix well and sometimes it's nice to be able to dissect an argument in to different components so we can talk about different aspects of what's going on.

Please try to stay on topic.

We are very much staying on topic

And with various reference links to back up what is stated that only serves to validate what is espoused in the video, e.g., The Mysterious Origins of Man.

With a company called Remove Viewing Products that produced the film, you take umbrage with the metaphysical aspects of our discussion?

In the first two minutes of the flick, they even pose the question, "Is there a God?"

Moreover, pole shift prophecies of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce are quoted directly.

One cannot discuss something as catastrophic as the possible end of civilization without also addressing all the factors involved in that happening. Science has many levels of understanding and the public at large is not educated in all that has happened or will happen. What science cannot explain, metaphysics and avant-garde insight take precedence.

Civilization has indeed risen to great peaks and fallen into ruin more than once on this planet. It is important to re-learn what we have forgotten from former lifetimes and also from our Interlife or period in-between incarnations.

Geological evidence does not point to meteors causing ancient global catastrophies - like a pole shift. This is said in the video. So they try to find other clues as to what caused it.

Ancient nuclear wars fit the bill completely and make much more sense than great global devastation occurring cyclically



[edit on 6-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Ancient nuclear wars fit the bill completely and make much more sense than great global devastation occurring cyclically

No, the video's approach makes more sense. Wouldn't global war or devastation leave behind some traces of the civilization that once was? Wouldn't we find traces of old ships, and large cities in ruin everywhere? Instead what we find is that the earth seems young from our point of view. When Columbus and the colonist arrived in North America, there was not a trace of a past great civilization. No sprawling cities, nothing. Just some nomad groups that wondered the plains and lived in small villages. For the most part everything was deserted and uninhabited.

Good documentary, although I believe it does push its agenda a bit much...not to say that I am not in agreement with much of what they said. I've been intrigued by this since I first heard of it. Guess I'll be looking forward to their claims and predictions in the years to come.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Ancient nuclear wars fit the bill completely and make much more sense than great global devastation occurring cyclically

Originally posted by dbates
No, the video's approach makes more sense.

No, it does not.

Richard W. Noone's book, which I referenced earlier, presented the SAME THEORY and even predicted when the pole shift would happen again - on May 5th 2000.

It didn't happen.

It didn't happen BECAUSE pole shifts ARE NOT cyclical in nature

However colorfully produced, the conclusions in the video are all wrong.

Originally posted by dbates
Wouldn't global war or devastation leave behind some traces of the civilization that once was?

There are traces and I gave references to them. Even J. Robert Oppenheimer, (1904–1967) the Supervising Scientist of the Manhattan Project, didn't think that the nuclear detonations in 1945 was something new to this planet and that it happened well before modern times. Re-read my earlier posts in this thread.

Originally posted by dbates
Wouldn't we find traces of old ships, and large cities in ruin everywhere?

Yes and no, which is the case. And with a passing of thousands of years, the evidence becomes more scarce, which it is.

Originally posted by dbates
Instead what we find is that the earth seems young from our point of view. When Columbus and the colonist arrived in North America, there was not a trace of a past great civilization. No sprawling cities, nothing. Just some nomad groups that wondered the plains and lived in small villages. For the most part everything was deserted and uninhabited.

Yes, that is true in North America at that juncture. But that is irrelevant, as there were advanced societies that were not based in North America. Furthermore, there does not have to be a sprawling, advanced city in this time-frame or even hundreds of years ago, in order for there to have been an advanced and sprawling city thousands of years ago

The evidence presented in The Mysterious Origins of Man points to there having been advanced ancient civilizations. For example, the ancient city of Tiahuanaco in Bolivia, constructed between twelve and seventeen thousand years ago (sic), has connecting metal clamps between the ancient stone structures. These metal clamps indicate that someone must have had what amounts to be a portable smelting pot. Something which indicates high technology and an advanced civilization. The clamps are real. They have them and they show them in the documentary.

So no, you do not have to find ships and lost cities NOW in North America in order for there to have been advanced societies in the past around this planet.

Buried under the ice of Antarctica is much more evidence than can be found in or under North America. A number of researchers espouse this. The reason is because the last pole shift started with what is now called North America under a thick layer of ice. There was also a large tropical continent - which likely had an advanced society - that was jolted into arctic temperatures. That shift was most likely caused by a nuclear holocaust. The tropical continent then freezed over rapidly.

The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth and undigested food in its stomach. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!

Source: The Demise of Atlantis and the Pleistocene Extinction

Originally posted by dbates
Here's an interesting video that I ran into on Google. It's a 1 hour and 22 min. production on past global catastrophes. Basically it's a 2012 doomsday video, but it's portrayed with a scientific twist. It seems that the secret to past societies being wiped out was the physical polar shift of the Earth. With a few exceptions the movie is very well done.

*sigh*

Past societies that were "wiped out"...

The only one I can think of are the Aztecs, and they were decimated by the Spanish. No poles shifted then. The Olmecs faded during a time of drought, the Incas rose to replace them. The Sumerian states were divided by war and gobbled up by other civilizations including the Egyptian ones. Egypt was eventually conquered and accepted non-Egyptian pharaohs (including the Cleopatras) and got swallowed up into the Roman empire. Greece simply went into a decline. Rome overextended itself and the Visigoths came in to finish the job. Carthage unwisely went into the Punic Wars and then got gobbled up by Rome. China survived for thousands of years under its strong system of emperors, finally falling after contact with the West. Ditto Japan. The Native American civilzations were small (except for the Iroquois federation) and succumbed to the guns of the Whites. Thai societies rose and fell with wars and conquests, same with the Aborigines. Ditto African. Druids were conquered by Romans. Vikings hit England and the French grabbed bits before England took it all back.

In the tapestry of time, civilizations are constantly rising and falling and getting eaten up by each other.

And finally, the last magnetic pole reversal (pole flip) took place 781,000 years ago:
en.wikipedia.org...

No civilizations fell then. Trust me on that one.

All in all I'll give it a 4 out of 5 stars on the Apocalypse scale.

Great production.

But could we label it fiction, please?

[edit on 10-7-2007 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Byrd
And finally, the last magnetic pole reversal (pole flip) took place 781,000 years ago:

So you didn't watch any of the video. They are talking about a physical pole change, not a magnetic pole change. We don't have any evidence of these past civilizations (Other than some underwater cities) because they were wiped out. Possibly sucked into the mantle by shifting plates.

Originally posted by Byrd
But could we label it fiction, please?

I never said I believed it. In fact I was quite critical of some major points in the video. I just thought it was an interesting change from the usual Planet X destroyed us prophecy. Factual or not, it's well done and not completely unbelievable. Even fables usually have some hint of truth to them. So sure, take it with a grain of salt.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by dbates]

According to what I have read since watching the video, our solar system is supposed to have passed through the galactic plane over 2 million years ago which would make an already tenuous theory even more suspect.

That said, 'zorgon' posted somewhere that Nasa mentioned that the planetry warming may be caused by our entering a different type of space (to paraphrase...) Anyone have any more info. on this?

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by Byrd
So you didn't watch any of the video. They are talking about a physical pole change, not a magnetic pole change. We don't have any evidence of these past civilizations (Other than some underwater cities) because they were wiped out. Possibly sucked into the mantle by shifting plates.

Physical? That's even slower, and the shape of the land and where it went is shown in the geologic record. If the land had suddenly slipped from one area to another, it would really show in the geologic record.

And yes, I don't watch the videos. Guilty!

Seriously, videos can decieve you (we're talking about this in class.) They add extra emotional content and take away other information content. It's the emotion and staged content that make it convincing to us and we forget to look at or check the details.

A good example is "The Jesus Family Tombs", where James Cameron presents actors who look like what we think Jesus and family looked like in sweetly charming and emotional scenes. Jacobvici, as "scholar" gives only "okay suppose..." evidence, and then takes the suppositions as real (and got ripped to shreds by folks who knew the material.)

I just thought it was an interesting change from the usual Planet X destroyed us prophecy. Factual or not, it's well done and not completely unbelievable. Even fables usually have some hint of truth to them. So sure, take it with a grain of salt.

I guess my big gripe is with "drama-mentaries" that try to rewrite our histories without doing any research on them. The geologic column and soil profiles can put an easy slam-dunk "no" to the material.

(I'm such a cranky nerd!)

[edit on 16-7-2007 by Byrd]

Originally posted by omeletteThat said, 'zorgon' posted somewhere that Nasa mentioned that the planetry warming may be caused by our entering a different type of space (to paraphrase...) Anyone have any more info. on this?

Yes. That's bogus, too.

Planetary warming and cooling cycles are influenced by the Earth's orbit, and there's a whole bunch of cycles there. But the quality of space hasn't changed, and galactic radiation is too slight to actually impact the Earth.

Continental shift also affects the temperature of the Earth... if the Gulf Stream slows or gets blocked, then Europe freezes quickly.

Originally posted by Byrd
Continental shift also affects the temperature of the Earth... if the Gulf Stream slows or gets blocked, then Europe freezes quickly.

Is this what you believe is responsible for many of the animals (like mammoths) found frozen solid while still chewing on warm climate buds and grasses? Or was this freeze, which is now thawing, caused by something else (mini ice age, etc.)?

Originally posted by infinite8
Is this what you believe is responsible for many of the animals (like mammoths) found frozen solid while still chewing on warm climate buds and grasses?

Actually, they weren't.

Over on talkorigins.org they cataloged all the frozen mammoths and their ages and how they died:
www.talkorigins.org...

NOTE: The Beresovka mammoth is the one that Ted (Holden, who iwas the one to claim that this is the mammoth Velikovsky mentioned) kept claiming was 'instantly frozen' by catastrophe. This is totally untrue, according to the scientists who did the actual research in 1900.

So the "flash frozen mammoths" is Velikovsky's extrapolation of the mammoths they found.

The "Watchtower magazine" (Jehovah's witnesses, I believe) are another source for this urban legend:
www.talkorigins.org...

They may have taken their info from an article in the Saturday Evening Post, which also mistakenly stated they were flash frozen.

Or was this freeze, which is now thawing, caused by something else (mini ice age, etc.)?

Actually, the thaw was some 10,000 years ago and was responsible for changing climate that drove humans into river valleys and into contact with each other and started civilizations all over the globe.

The issue of the Beresovka Mammoth is covered in this ATS thread.

Soothsayer made a good point:

Originally posted by soothsayer
Food still in the mouths, food undigested in stomachs (even though digestive actions continue three days after death)... all accounts point to a quick and rapid freezing process, not some gradual Ice Age.

Something unusual and fast caused that rapid freezing process

BlackJackal also referenced some excellent points...

Originally posted by BlackJackal

To satisfactorily freeze a side of beef takes 30 minutes at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. To deep freeze a huge living warm blooded mammoth, insulated in thick fur, they estimated that temperatures below -150 degrees would be required. Temperatures so low have never been recorded in nature, not even in the artic.

This has simply made all normal theories for the Beresovka mammoth that much more obsolete.

To add to the mystery consider the climate needed for buttercups to grow. Buttercups enjoy temperate conditions with alternation sun and rain Click here for Buttercup Climate info

These are the unalterable facts a mammoth grazing buttercup in a temperate climate all of the sudden is frozen stiff by unimaginable cold. The question is how it happened, to this day a feasible explanation has not been put forward.

Reference:

Strange Stories, Amazing Facts, Readers Digest. 1980

[edit on 17-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]

I recently watched a national geographic program on the moon and how there's a relationship between it and us. As it revolves around us, it's gravitational field affects our oceans and some say even causing volcanoes to erupt.

The show was saying how now there's evidence that the moon is moving away from earth, and that eventually it's gravitational field won't affect earth's rotation anymore, and will cause the earth to tilt. Whether this tilt is related to polar shifting or not I'm not sure, but they theorized that the seasons will be gone forever, and I'm sure any changes like in the weather will mean bad mojo for all living things.