Military Warns Personnel Don't Go to Mexico while Senate Pushes Open Borders

SR, Ramos and Compean are still in prison any may be joined by a 3rd USBP agent (I forget the details on the case) and an Edwards County TX Sheriff's deputy named Hernandez who shot at a drug lords SUV when the drug lord tried to run him over during a traffic stop.

Ashnomadonte, 3 battalions is less then 2,000 troops. I dont know the exact #s but I think its about 500 per battalion and its very rare they a unit is at full strength. Remember that in 1916 we sent close to 500,000 troops to the border after Pancho Villa attacked Columbus, NM and that was still not enough to stop Villa's border raids.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
There is a group of ex-Mexican military personnel trained by the Israel Defense Forces, known as "the Zetas," which have thousands of trained fighters.

and I'm sure they'll be able to get amnesty as well.

Originally posted by Amelie

Originally posted by DJMessiah
There is a group of ex-Mexican military personnel trained by the Israel Defense Forces, known as "the Zetas," which have thousands of trained fighters.

and I'm sure they'll be able to get amnesty as well.

lol. I'm sure they will.

This raises a good point: how many Mexicans are scampering to get across the border now in order to get in on the amnesty before the bill is signed?

If they really wanted to decrease the number of illegal immigrants, they sure picked a funny way to go about it.

What with all the immigrant bashing?

How many of you who posted on how bad immigration and the amnesty bill are native american? None of you, I bet. We are all immigrants to this country, save the native american indian.

Secondly - from the anti-amnesty posters on this thread I can gather that most of you don't know a whole lot about immigration. The Amnesty bill is a GOOD THING.

The problem with illegal immigrants are many - but the main ones are -

1. Most illegal immigrants work under the table.
a. Because of this, they do not pay federal / state taxes.
2. They make very little income, and cannot afford health care.
3. They are illegal, with fake (but presumably valid) documentation, which allows them to tap state and federally funded programs, such as WIC / Welfare / and hospital care etc.
4. Employers hire them because they work cheap, and it saves overhead of business (pay less than minium wage, under the table, keep more in pocket)
5. Because business's take this approach (out sourcing) they are reducing american jobs. This in-turn lessens the amount of money going into the economic system by way of taxes / fee's / earned income etc (both worker and employer). This strains the economic system because more money is being spent caring for and providing for illegal immigrants / and legitmate non workers / employers while none of the money is being put back in from taxes / fee's / and earned income etc.
6. The one benefit of this approach (provided the employer chooses to do so) is cheaper goods. Again, this is purely an effect in direct control of the employer/producer of said product. More realistically, the employer/producer keeps the prices of product the same, while paying less than minium wage to his illegal workers, and pockets the difference.

The points I have brought up only pertain the economic side of the debate. Frankly, the more money that can be retained from *LEGAL* immigration (that this amnesty bill WILL provide) will help fix the american economy - it will force employers/producers to start paying minium wage, and start abiding by federal law - it will bring more money into the system which will provide more jobs - which inturn provides more money - which will provide the necessary funding for more law enforcement, health care, etc etc etc.

This is why the amnesty bill is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing. Immigrants are what MADE this country what it is today, and we can't turn our backs on people who wish to make this country better. Lets focus on the issue, and that is making illegal immigrants legal and stopping further immigrants from entering the country.

As far as the drug war - close the borders if it starts to spill over into US soil. *shrugs* Let Mexico have a civil war - it wouldn't be the first time...

Originally posted by zeeon
What with all the immigrant bashing?

How many of you who posted on how bad immigration and the amnesty bill are native american? None of you, I bet. We are all immigrants to this country, save the native american indian.

Secondly - from the anti-amnesty posters on this thread I can gather that most of you don't know a whole lot about immigration. The Amnesty bill is a GOOD THING.

< snip >

This is why the amnesty bill is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing. Immigrants are what MADE this country what it is today, and we can't turn our backs on people who wish to make this country better. Lets focus on the issue, and that is making illegal immigrants legal and stopping further immigrants from entering the country.

There is one point you missed, which goes along with number 6: lower quality. This is most apparent in the construction industries, where there have been many complaints of sub-standard work in homebuilding.

There are many flaws in the Amnesty bill. One major one is the ability to track those who will overstay their visas. Any attempt to implement a biometric ID card has been met with cries of invasion of privacy.

Here's a pointer to a list of the 14 major problems with the bill:

www.numbersusa.com...

The amnesty bill is not a good idea. And nobody is opposed to immigration. There are long lines of people wanting to immigrate legally. We need to screen who we allow into our country; we need fewer landscapers and apple pickers, and more engineers and doctors.

Zeeon, there is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. I dont know very many people opposed to legal immigration, what has everyone up in arms is illegal immigration and the fact that the federal government is always talking about homeland security but refuses to secure our borders and deport those who came illegally.

Originally posted by zeeon
What with all the immigrant bashing?

How many of you who posted on how bad immigration and the amnesty bill are native american? None of you, I bet. We are all immigrants to this country, save the native american indian.

Secondly - from the anti-amnesty posters on this thread I can gather that most of you don't know a whole lot about immigration. The Amnesty bill is a GOOD THING.

The problem with illegal immigrants are many - but the main ones are -

1. Most illegal immigrants work under the table.
a. Because of this, they do not pay federal / state taxes.
2. They make very little income, and cannot afford health care.
3. They are illegal, with fake (but presumably valid) documentation, which allows them to tap state and federally funded programs, such as WIC / Welfare / and hospital care etc.
4. Employers hire them because they work cheap, and it saves overhead of business (pay less than minium wage, under the table, keep more in pocket)
5. Because business's take this approach (out sourcing) they are reducing american jobs. This in-turn lessens the amount of money going into the economic system by way of taxes / fee's / earned income etc (both worker and employer). This strains the economic system because more money is being spent caring for and providing for illegal immigrants / and legitmate non workers / employers while none of the money is being put back in from taxes / fee's / and earned income etc.
6. The one benefit of this approach (provided the employer chooses to do so) is cheaper goods. Again, this is purely an effect in direct control of the employer/producer of said product. More realistically, the employer/producer keeps the prices of product the same, while paying less than minium wage to his illegal workers, and pockets the difference.

The points I have brought up only pertain the economic side of the debate. Frankly, the more money that can be retained from *LEGAL* immigration (that this amnesty bill WILL provide) will help fix the american economy - it will force employers/producers to start paying minium wage, and start abiding by federal law - it will bring more money into the system which will provide more jobs - which inturn provides more money - which will provide the necessary funding for more law enforcement, health care, etc etc etc.

This is why the amnesty bill is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing. Immigrants are what MADE this country what it is today, and we can't turn our backs on people who wish to make this country better. Lets focus on the issue, and that is making illegal immigrants legal and stopping further immigrants from entering the country.

As far as the drug war - close the borders if it starts to spill over into US soil. *shrugs* Let Mexico have a civil war - it wouldn't be the first time...

Maybe we should start up another thread so we don't keep taking away from the OP?

There is a big difference between the immigrants that founded this country and the immigrants coming over the border. I don't disagree that immigration is what made this country great, but it also stands to tear the economics of the country apart. That is, unless you are exceptionally wealthy.

You make valid points and I agree with them ... if one planned on doing nothing about the illegal immigants if we don't pass the amnesty bill.

I think we need to look at all aspects of what this amnesty bill will conribute to the exconomic situation of this countryrather than rushing into a bill that hasn't been fully thought out. There are a number of reason this bill needs to be reviewed. Here's just a couple of examples:

Full Article

Overall, immigration is a net fiscal positive to the government’s budget in the long run: the taxes immi­grants pay exceed the costs of the services they receive. However, the fiscal impact of immigrants varies strongly according to immigrants’ education level. College-educated immigrants are likely to be strong contributors to the government’s finances, with their taxes exceeding the government’s costs. By contrast, immigrants with low education levels are likely to be a fiscal drain on other taxpayers. This is important because half of all adult illegal immigrants in the U.S. have less than a high school education. In addition, recent immigrants have high levels of out-of-wedlock childbearing, which increases welfare costs and poverty.

Full Article

The four JFK terrorists include two nationals of Guyana, one of Trinidad, and one former Guyanan who was granted U.S. citizenship. The Fort Dix Islamic terrorists who were arrested in May included five foreign nationals from Yugoslavia and Jordan. A sixth, from Turkey, eventually obtained U.S. citizenship. Of the five aliens, three were illegal aliens who snuck across the southern border years ago near Brownsville, Texas.

Originally posted by SR
What ever happened to the two border patrol agents who got imprisoned for doing there jobs? I remember a petition circulating around awhile back to try and help them out???

They are still in freaking jail. By the way, I think it's important to mention that they were Hispanic Americans. They were trying to do their job and they freaking wound up in jail for it!!

Originally posted by zeeon

The Amnesty bill is a GOOD THING.

Pfft, what the hell are you talking about? 20 Loop Holes in the Amnesty Bill

Yeah, it's a real "good thing."

[edit on 22-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

As noted earlier, it's a step in the right direction and thats what this country needs.

You can't expect to pass a perfect bill right away. I don't expect that of my politicians (I mean come on, they're having a hard enough time coming to terms in this bill!) - yes the amnesty bill has it's flaws, but undoubtedly it is a good step in the right direction.

I really, really, REALLY applaud the efforts of those who realize that we need to do SOMETHING, very soon - rather than bicker and squabble for the next 4 years and probably end up coming up with nothing (as has been for the last...what 2 to 4 administrations?)

I'm not even a bush supporter - but I support this bill. Sure it isn't perfect...we're probably not going to get it perfect - not for a long time - but as long as we are making positive steps in the right direction we can rectify the problems as we go along. Nobody gets anything perfect the first couple of times.

I do apologize shots, I did not mean to de-rail your thread.

Back on topic - I did read an article in the Military Press about the drug wars going on in Mexico. Look for articles about Tabasco mexico and the SERIOUS drug wars going on there. It's straight chaos.

My suggestion is to simply support the federalies with money and arms and supplies until they can supress the cartels. Unfortunately it may sprial downward into civil war, but, as the russians say, revolution is change - and change is good (or something like that ).

Originally posted by jsobecky
We need to screen who we allow into our country; we need fewer landscapers and apple pickers, and more engineers and doctors.

That is a good point - we do need more doctors and engineers. But ask yourself - are you willing to pick apples and do landscaping for minimum wage?

In all honesty - I'm not. I'm a skilled electronics technician, and I feel I shouldn't have to resort to that kind of work to feed me and mine.

These immigrants - illegal or not - ARE willing to do the jobs most americans refuse to do. This is the fact of the matter. It's sad, but true.
To them, it's the same (or better) work, and a higher standard of living. For them, it's a win / win. So why not let them come in on worker visas, and do those jobs (and at the same time actually putting money back into the system legitametly via taxes and the like, instead of earning wages under the table)?

As I said before, I really think that, although it has it's problems, the amnesty bill is a step in the right direction - and that's good.

Originally posted by zeeon

Originally posted by jsobecky
We need to screen who we allow into our country; we need fewer landscapers and apple pickers, and more engineers and doctors.

That is a good point - we do need more doctors and engineers. But ask yourself - are you willing to pick apples and do landscaping for minimum wage?

No, I'm not. But there are people willing to do so. If not, the prices may rise a bit. That's OK with me.

ICE recently conducted raids at several Swift & Co. meat-packing plants that were heavily staffed with illegals. The next day, there were hundreds of legal applicants for those same jobs - the lines were out the door and around the corner.

www.rockymountainnews.com...

So, that shoots down the "jobs that Americans won't do" argument.

These immigrants - illegal or not - ARE willing to do the jobs most americans refuse to do. This is the fact of the matter. It's sad, but true.
To them, it's the same (or better) work, and a higher standard of living. For them, it's a win / win. So why not let them come in on worker visas, and do those jobs (and at the same time actually putting money back into the system legitametly via taxes and the like, instead of earning wages under the table)?

As I said before, I really think that, although it has it's problems, the amnesty bill is a step in the right direction - and that's good.

The bill does nothing to stop illegal immigration. It has more holes than a sieve in it.

No, we need to enforce the laws that are currently on the boards. Strict enforcement. Make border jumping a felony instead of a misdemeanor. Make it a felony for employers to hire them. Create and enforce a strong ID system for them. Rescind the "Anchor Baby" amendment. And build that wall!

The amnesty bill is a bad bill. Take a look at the links that I and others have provided. And a bad bill is not better than no bill.

Originally posted by zeeon
That is a good point - we do need more doctors and engineers. But ask yourself - are you willing to pick apples and do landscaping for minimum wage?

In all honesty - I'm not. I'm a skilled electronics technician, and I feel I shouldn't have to resort to that kind of work to feed me and mine.

I agree. I've attained a degree in my profession and I'm not willing to work a no-skill job for less money. But, I think this subject goes much deeper than this amnesty bill. Everyone always talks about how immigrants do the unwanted jobs of our society. They do. Because no one else is willing to do them.

If childcare wasn't unaffordable to the lower classes, we wouldn't have such a low unemployment rate. If the government were to take away welfare (I'm not saying they should - but just for an example) I garuntee you would have citizens of this country begging for those jobs. Many illegal immigrants (and I know several) come to this country to work for 5-10 years, save up money, and return to their families in Mexico to make a better life for them. How is that helping our economy or unemployment rate? It actually hurts our economy when money is taken away from our country. If the people on welfare, who sit around waiting for hand outs because they know they're there, were to get these jobs - granted the employers would have to pay more money - then the bulk of the wages would be returned to our economy. That coupled with the fact that the government wouldn't be paying out hundreds of millions a year for families on welfare would be a boost.

Welfare is a vicious cycle. Yes, my family has been there. But, my mother and father were not proud to be living off welfare and raised me to excel in school and further my education so I wouldn't end up the same way. They in fact moved us from a poverty-stricken neighborhood so I wouldn't be subject to gang violence and the never ending cycle. I graduated high school and went on to college through grants.

In the state of New York there is an ongoing debate on whether to reward poor families for making good choices like attending Parent-Teacher conferences, going for check-ups, and getting a library card. These incentives are designed by people who have never been poor, never been part of the cycle. Something has to be done about the inequality in this country, but it's not hand-outs. The only thing this accomplishes is keep the lower class poor. Most people are going to get that library card and never return to the library. Then another month down the road be looking for the next hand out they think they're entitled to because they're so poor. It's teaching these people that it's ok to be mediocre and that it's ok to NOT to try to excel and make something of their lives. It's ok to live in a project and except government handouts. The money would be better spent by providing those families with childcare so that they could get out and get a job and teach their children work ethic.

Granting amnesty to these immigrants with no skills and no college or even high school education is only going to increase and accellerate the collapse of our economy. There has to be another way. I agree that something has to be done quickly and of course no bill is perfect the first time. But, I think this bill was designed to increase the gap between lower class and upperclass and totally deminish the middle class.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by tyranny22]