America was known as Atlantis before columbus "discovered" it

has anyone ever thought that perhaps

the landmass now america may have been known about in the "elite" circles of Europe possibly from the Vikings.

and that this knowledge was known for hundreds of years prior to Columbus discovering it and making it known to the masses

*perhaps the british has plans for america well before* and there are "whispers" this land was referred to in roay circles in the "precolumbus" era as ATLANTIS

this can go in skunk works for now if warranted , as i am busy right now and haven't provided any links , i will probably do so in the future especialy if this belief strengthens

I have posted elsewhere that pre-Roman era, Welsh folklore spoke of a marvelous city far out in the western ocean which sank beneath the waves.

Prince Owain Madoc discovered America about 1170 AD.

freepages.family.rootsweb.com...

There were also the Irish voyages of St Brenadan. Vikings settled greenland until a cold snap around 1400 AD wiped them out. The Viking history records Eric the Red discovering America.

I don't think personally that the explorers concerned however confused this America with the mythical Atlantis unless you can point to some text which suggest it ?

I am open to persuasion.

It doesn't match Plato's description in any form.

Nor did Bronze Age American Indian tribes come over to Greece and attack Athens (Plato's story is of Athens defeating Atlantis.)

The Welsh mythology does corroborate the existence of Atlantis and of a civilisation far out in the Atlantic which sank beneath the waves. It's origin is ancient and was already old before the romans came to Britain.

Celtic mythology also does have equivalents to the Titans of Greek mythology.

It does not need to be identical to Plato's account and nor does the lack of symmetry disqualify it. You're just being needlessly negative Byrd.

Since Wales is already beyond the pillars of Hercules there is no reason why it's description of location should be identical either.

We've always been told that Plato's description of Atlantis was the only one from history and that is not true.

Nor have myths about Quetzacoatl been factored in as possible corroborations from the other side of the Atlantic.

Some people will never be satisfied no matter how much evidence is accrued.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The Welsh mythology does corroborate the existence of Atlantis and of a civilisation far out in the Atlantic which sank beneath the waves. It's origin is ancient and was already old before the romans came to Britain.

Which tales? (I'm familiar with Welsh mythology. I'm no expert, but I've read a lot of it.)

Celtic mythology also does have equivalents to the Titans of Greek mythology.

The Tuatha de Daanan? Not really. Or did you have another group in mind?

It does not need to be identical to Plato's account and nor does the lack of symmetry disqualify it. You're just being needlessly negative Byrd.

In order to be Atlantis, it must match Plato's account. The key points are:
* Beyond the Pillars of Hercules
* Very large island continent ("larger than Lybia AND Asia Minor" is in the description)
* Powerful empire established by Poseidon (I would guess you're trying to make a parallel with Llyr? But Poseidon is not a Titan... he's the brother of Zeus www.mythweb.com... )
* The land was divided into concentric circles and further divided into 10 "wedges", each of which was ruled by a king who created a capital city in that sector.
* Main city was a series of concentric rings and canals surrounding a tall hill
* About 9500 BC
* sunk by earthquake
* After sinking, it became a huge mud flat that barred the way to any land.

We've always been told that Plato's description of Atlantis was the only one from history and that is not true.

Actually, it is. There is one reference to a woman named "Atlantis" in a manuscript fragment and that's the sum of the references until the Renaissance.
en.wikipedia.org...

Every other description is somethng "Channeled" and the bulk of them date to the late 1800's-1930's and recent Internet lore.

Nor have myths about Quetzacoatl been factored in as possible corroborations from the other side of the Atlantic.

Because the people who created those legends didn't exist until 1000 AD. That would be 10,000 years after the presumed sinking of Atlantis.

Some people will never be satisfied no matter how much evidence is accrued.

Quite true. And it's a shame to see people kit-bashing legends to try and force them onto Plato's model, when the originals that they came from are much more beautiful and detailed. The Welsh gods were fiercer than the Greek ones, and had quite a different set of cultural values. Had any group with those cultural values marched in to Greece and warred against Athens (which actually didn't exist as a city in the presumed time of Atlantis), they would have stomped Athens flat and would have left quite an impression on the Spartans.

...had either group existed at the time.

I think the Mabinogion and Book of Taleisin and other sources are richer and more inspirational and have better heroes than a fragmentary tale about an island nation with lots of concurrent kings that couldn't defeat Athens and sank overnight.

posted by byrd
The Tuatha de Daanan? Not really. Or did you have another group in mind?

the Tuatha were the gods of ancient ireland
the celts were not responsible for those legends
just in accepting an already existing pantheon as their own deities when they arrived on the emerald isle around the iron age by which point the Tuatha were already Hoary with age
they are believed to be contemporous with newgrange which local legend says they built around 3500bce
they have nothing to do with the goddess Danu
they are at no time described as giants though are often described as tall with blone/red hair and blue/green eyes and said to have arrived in the northwest or ireland on boats which they then set of fire
sound familiar ?

the most famous celtic giants that I know about are Finn McCool and Fingal
but as they are attributed sites like the giants causeway that they cannot possibly have had anything to do with its a moot point

the most famous Giants in that area were the formorians
who do fit the Titan parallel mentioned
they were after all kicked to little pieces by the aforementioned Tuatha after terrorising the area
the Tuatha then became the gods of men so just like the mythology behind the Titans and the Olympians really

theres a lot of rubbish written about all of these groups
the reason for this is that most of it was written during the period that Bishop Ushers chronology was in full acceptance amongst the clergy who were the only ones at that time capable of reading and translating the ancient myths
for instance The Lebor Gabala Erren (book of leinster) is the only ancient text that details the adventures of the early groups of irish history
it was first translated by monks and with their agenda managed to outlaw worship of the old gods and also renamed many ancient sites that were formerly named after such gods
Newgrange for instance is named after the word "grange" which meant "church land"
there are also many henges and other mounds from the neolithic attributed to them
the original name of newgrange was Si An Bur (which meant the stone dwelling of An)
though who An was nobody really knows (at least no one whos taken seriously)
(incidentally in Sumerian the name Si An Bur would be pronounced Si An Bhru, just a funny coincedence i thought worth mentioning)
but from the evidence he was some kind of sun god
newgrange is aligned to the Winter Solstice sunrise

anyway the Tuatha do live on, after they vanished from ireland they became the Sidh (pronounced sith) which the rest of us know as fairies.
or the little people.
see the legend runs that they went back to the underworld where they came from using the barrows that they had built as gateways
it is this mythology that in the modern world attributes fairies to living under the ground and causing fairy rings (henges)
it is also the modern world that took the idea of a lost race of swordsmen and gave them back some dignity

what you think George Lucas came up with the name Sith all on his own ?

hey wait a minute
Tuatha - children
Dana-An
they must have been the children of this Sun God "An" and "Dana" the winner of the Eurovision Song Contest in 1970
wowowow



[edit on 3-6-2007 by Marduk]

[edit on 3-6-2007 by Marduk]

well, guys grow up. There is no Darth Vader hollywood junk in real life.

We all learned something from the pass discussions. Plato foreseed Atlantis, and Atlantis is real NOW in DUBAI, the PALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yahoo-ing yourself to find the truth!


The truth is out there.

Accept the truth, admit it, though it hurts!!!!!!!!!!

here is a little site i like to call atlantis

these are a little big but they are fun i think.

209.61.250.243...
209.61.250.243...

so your first thought is its way to big..40kmapprox. but i say your using the wrong khet.

you say sand dunes? out your hugel i say. grid stuff?... oh boy.

bull cult. oh yeah?

mount atlas?
209.61.250.243...

nose around, assume a stade is 1285meters just for fun. look for timisoara romania.

if you are really keen maybe you will see Troy too?

its all fun

the only advance acient civilizations on america are in south america, and none of then match in the dates of their exinstence with the supposedly atlant age...
Atlantida disapeard about 12 to 15 thousand years ago and this civilizations exist only after that time. and there are no evidence of an older civilization in the americas

the mayan, the egipts, the nords "thule" and the mu, are supossed to be the descedents of atlants, the few that survive the (apocalypse, flood, war,wathever), and spread throw the world.
this is where the "facts" collide... suddendly in certain locations of the world there was a huge bust on technological evolution, witch is explain by the settlement of this surviving atlants, great civilizations appeard out of the blue, with no previous background. the locations this empires indicate that the atlantida had to be somewhere in the middle and thats why it is commonly set on the atlantic ocean.
but the dates don't match the atlantida disappaed 12000 years ago (according to the mayan calendary) and this empires only appeared 4000 years ago.

sorry for my bad english...

youre english is fine
its your source i'm worried about

Originally posted by CinLung-Part-1
well, guys grow up. There is no Darth Vader hollywood junk in real life.

We all learned something from the pass discussions. Plato foreseed Atlantis, and Atlantis is real NOW in DUBAI, the PALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yahoo-ing yourself to find the truth!


The truth is out there.

Accept the truth, admit it, though it hurts!!!!!!!!!!

Darth Vader isn't real?! That's not what I heard.

Originally posted by Marduk

posted by byrd


the most famous celtic giants that I know about are Finn McCool and Fingal
but as they are attributed sites like the giants causeway that they cannot possibly have had anything to do with its a moot point

--------------------------------------------

anyway the Tuatha do live on, after they vanished from ireland they became the Sidh (pronounced sith) which the rest of us know as fairies.
or the little people.

Ahh, Fionn MacCumhail, one of my favorite legends. (My screen-name refers to the Hero) I thought immediately of Fionn when you mentioned Titan-like myths with Erin.
Now, I'm so not bashing ya here. Just passing on what I've learned.
The sith reference...the word you used is pronounced "Shee" as in Banshee. Which is "Bain Sidhe" in Irish, or "Girl/Woman-Spirit" by translation. The Sidhe are STILL in Ireland, I believe, living in their "Fairey mounds/rings" called Raths. (Lesson over, just passing it on)
I certainly don't agree with Ireland or America being Atlantis, though. I haven't come across ANYTHING that eludes to that except some musings about Cuba's offshore ruins. Technically, that's North/Central America.
My $0.02
Cuhail

Originally posted by Byrd
In order to be Atlantis, it must match Plato's account. The key points are:
* Beyond the Pillars of Hercules
* Very large island continent ("larger than Lybia AND Asia Minor" is in the description)
* Powerful empire established by Poseidon (I would guess you're trying to make a parallel with Llyr? But Poseidon is not a Titan... he's the brother of Zeus www.mythweb.com... )
* The land was divided into concentric circles and further divided into 10 "wedges", each of which was ruled by a king who created a capital city in that sector.
* Main city was a series of concentric rings and canals surrounding a tall hill
* About 9500 BC
* sunk by earthquake
* After sinking, it became a huge mud flat that barred the way to any land.

No, it doesn't have to fit Plato's account. It might be close, but was Plato around in 9500BC? Didn't he claim that a small species of stegodont lived on the island, or was that another ancient Greek? That claim does somewhat back his claims. Stegodonts tend to shrink over time when on an island. I don't think people knew that back then.

there is some debate over whether he says island. apparently the term is nesos which isn't necessarily an island as it applies in other instances to a spur of land. i believe the huge structure centered in birmingham alabama usa could be called a nesos. [see google earth].

Originally posted by Uplifted

No, it doesn't have to fit Plato's account. It might be close, but was Plato around in 9500BC? Didn't he claim that a small species of stegodont lived on the island, or was that another ancient Greek? That claim does somewhat back his claims. Stegodonts tend to shrink over time when on an island. I don't think people knew that back then.

Plato said nothing about Stegodonts at all
are you making this up as you go along ?

Originally posted by Marduk
Plato said nothing about Stegodonts at all
are you making this up as you go along ?

Like I posted, I'm not 100% on it being Plato who said this. Some ancient Greek made a claim about small elephants on Atlantis.

no other greek described the island of Atlantis apart from Plato
so wheres the link you read about this ?

It is pure American loser jokes.

If Atlantis was in America, then Buckingham was in my garage.
In my harlem lied Lady Di. I expelled Q.E II though, she looks lizard.

Go to the library and pick up Gateway to Atlantis by Andrew Collins.

He makes a fairly firm arguement for the location and time-line.

It's purely speculation, but a decent read.

I know Byrd is gonna smack me, for this.

Regards,
Lex

thats probably one of the worst books I have ever read
the only one worse was "the cygnus mystery"