21 Days to Open the Gates of Hell

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posted on May, 31 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by junglelord
chilled voodoo your living in progaganda technicolor



Mod Note: One Line and Short Posts – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

well I got nailed 20 points so lets finish.
how in the world can the new vision of Iraq be better then where it was?

It amazes me when people die daily there (Iraq people, #e vs sunnie) and you know how much time it got yesterday on american news?
30 seconds.
yup 40 people died, a mosque destroyed and it got 30 secs.
and thats the last of that story!

how many more people is that then at the University shooting?
how many more every day.
yet our tragedy is played out to the max and 40 people get blown up and a mosque destroyed and its over in 30 secs

Thats why I wrote one line because I fully agree with the original post and the reply by chilled voodoo about the embassy being the best thing to ever happen to Iraq is propaganda technicolor




posted on May, 31 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by junglelord
It amazes me when people die daily there (Iraq people, #e vs sunnie) and you know how much time it got yesterday on american news?
30 seconds.


Five hundred people in this month alone or more because many goes unacounted for, if that is not genocide . . . then what you call it . . .

Ooops when our government is saving a country the death on the side of civilians is nothing more than terrorist, insurgency and casualties.

Our troops supply the blood and so the Iraqi people.



[edit on 31-5-2007 by marg6043]



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 10:14 AM
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In November 2006, the American people installed a Democrat (Nancy P.)
as Speaker of the House and a Democratically controlled Senate. The
newly elected Senators vowed to set a timetable for getting out of Iraq
ASAP.

What happened to these folks? Did they go "spineless" on us? President
Bush says to them "I don't want a pull-out timetable!" and they backed
down like little sheep. Is it possible that both Democrat and Republican
Senators/Congressmen have hidden agendas, or know something ultra
top-secret that the general public is not privy to?



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 11:57 AM
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Can the United States of America ever find a way to escape this hell in Iraq?


Absolutely... It's a pretty sure bet that whoever wins the 2008 election will be the one to go along with the majority of Americans (according to every major respected poll) and be in favor of an exact (and short) timeline for American withdrawal from Iraq.

I still can't believe our leaders fail to pay attention to history. You cannot win an occupational war without the support of the people. We learned it in Vietnam, the Soviets learned it in Afghanistan. We should have done what we've done (and the Soviets) since those debacles....overthrow the existing regime while propping up a country-friendly dictator to take his place. I mean, this is CIA government building 101 stuff...



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 12:44 PM
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The thing is,

Iraq, was our friend.
We supported them, we propped them up, we tricked them....

And this administration stabbed them in the back, for nothing but political gain.

GW Says this is a war of righteousnous, a war of ethics.

What ethics does a man have, when he stabs someone in the back, and stakes claim to the spoils of war?

Iraq, was one of the ONLY middle eastern nations that could of actually taken on western values...

The leader was greedy, like the west.
The leader profited of the suffering of its own people... like the west.
And the leader was prepared to lie to the world, for its own standing ... like the west.

Saddam was our greatest ally in the middle east..
... and we betrayed him for the likes of corporate ambition.

Hell in Iraq?...

Definately. We opened the gates of hell in Iraq, because it gave every nation in the world a WAY to seek revenge for the decades of curroption and greed we enforced through military means.

Its a pitty, regular folk like you and I, are the ones suffering, at the expense of the corporate elite.



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
It's a pretty sure bet that whoever wins the 2008 election will be the one to go along with the majority of Americans (according to every major respected poll) and be in favor of an exact (and short) timeline for American withdrawal from Iraq.


Interesting post Gazrok, but how realistic is a plan to execute a short timeline for American withdrawal from Iraq?

The violence continues even now despite the presence of US forces in Iraq, while some could argue that the mere presence of US forces contributes to the violence, the reality is, for now the US military are the only viable security enforcement Iraq has. If there is a "short withdrawal" of US forces from Iraq, before Iraq is better able to police itself, can you imagine how things could escalate?

It seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't now, I say damn them, those whose bogus intelligence, and suspect true motives brought us into this damned war, and have brought it all to this damned point. Damn them all to this new land of the damned they've helped create.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by UM_Gazz]



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
Did they honestly belived that there were weapons in Iraq?


Course not.

You really think we ( the west ) would of sent hundereds of thousands of men and women into an active biological/chemical war?

We have debates about 20,000 troops going into a convential war.
How do people honestly believe we were prepared to send 100,000's of troops into an active chem/bio war without blinking an eyelid?

WMD's...

I cant believe I was sucked in...

What worse, is there are people who still honestly believe saddam even HAD a wmd programme...



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by selfless
For those of you who thinks this invasion have nothing to do with oil...

Please remember when they first started to invade Iraq what happened, the Iraqi's burned the oil fields.

What does that tell you?


That tells me that the Iraqis who did it, thought that it was about oil. Nothing more, nothing less. A reaction is never a conclusion apon the circumstances of the acton. I think oil is certainly a factor, if not the factor for war in the middle east, yet assumptions are never conclusive.



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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Oil,oil,oil,...and more oil. So it goes from WMD's to dictator eliminator, to freedom for the people to liberation of the free to conserving American intrest all under the name of terror. This is a profit war. Point blank. And those who profit don't care about the Iraq people they will never care. This war will wage as long as the oil is pumped. There will be no pull out when administrations change. Oh we might pull our troops out but by then there will be enough "black water" and other security forces in place to keep the occupation in full effect. You see, you can look at what is happeneing right now as a idiot president over looking the will of the people by not pulling American troops out.

Or, You can look at a wider picture of a surge of private forces likes the which we have never seen being built up right now. There are close to or over 20,000 contractors in Iraq right now(20,000)



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 01:25 PM
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i dont think people are ready to face the truths regarding the differences politicians are portrayed to us on the media as vs. the way they really are (there true intentions)

humans are not that bright, sometimes we need to be lied to. we want to be lied to rather than face the truth (if the truth is unpleasant), in order to continue the fantasy we live in the united states, and we know deep down when we start questioning the lies that we know are there we may have to face a more of a dictatorship rule instead of a lying bunch of greedy scum bags. and that unknown is to much pain and change to face especially for those with families , so till then we bury our heads in the sand even if we do it subconsciously. its simply manipulating the human condition. problem is, things are getting out of hand and we've allowed ourselves to slowly dig ourselves into a deep hole, it's almost time for a reality check

iraq was for oil and isreal to increase there power in the middle east. especially an isreal influenced by british elite



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 02:34 PM
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The reality of sectarian violence in Iraq, is nothing than a covert up to make the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis so far more easily to swallow and easier for the American people to put the blame on.

Putting the blame of death on insurgency, terrorist and now the Mahdi Army militia is what the propaganda is of our nation backed up with corporate media is doing now.

But nobody can come clean with certain prove that this is what is going on in Iraq.

But our government can come clean and claim the death of Iraqis on others.

Sadly people fall for it without questions or reliable truth.

The sectarian violence is fueled by no only the occupation that has failed to help the Iraqi people and keep them safe, but also the fact that our government has allowed a puppet government to be manipulated by death squats, secret police groups and other criminal acts going on and supported by the interior ministry in Iraq.

And organization call Bursselstribunal.org (organization for the safety of Iraqi academics) www.brusselstribunal.org... said that 92% percent of the bodies found of death people in Iraq are of those of people been persecuted by the Iraqi government, specially the interior ministry.

To me is not way to justified the fact that our government knew that Iraq without Saddam was going to fall into a chaos of sectarian violence.

But why it didn’t do anything to prevent or minimize this fact?

Because the priorities of the invasion of Iraq didn’t have the best interest in his people.

So now Iran, Al-qeada, Al-Sadir militia, terrorist and insurgents are the ones to blame for the blood been spilled in that country.

www.scoop.co.nz...



[edit on 31-5-2007 by marg6043]



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Again I ask, can the United States of America ever find a way to escape this hell in Iraq?


The mission objective is to totally destabilize the Middle East region including Iran. We're not leaving Iraq or more importantly the Middle East until the objective is achieved. This is becoming a very sad but true reality.

I'm not going to make believe I know the reasons for this but as time passes it becomes more and more apparent that setting the region into chaos is exactly what our US government was planning from day one.



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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A quick withdrawl (enter the term you would use here ) is possible no doubt the ghosts of the withdrawl from Saigon would appear. I have no doubt that we would see similar actions who knows what kind of equipment would get dumped into the sea this time round.

As for the results of an quick withdrawl the fall of Saigon would look like a Sunday picnic in the park in comparison. I understand that one cant expect the leaders who created this mess to dig the coalition out of the whole they dug . There has been a failure of leadership that will take a long time for the Middle East and global security to recover from.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 04:09 AM
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No WMDs?

Let's see, what else do we have here:


Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center’s commander said here today.

“These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes … they do constitute weapons of mass destruction,” Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.
.

Oops, looks like some Chem weapons.

What else can we find . . .


U.S. REMOVES NUCLEAR AND RADIOLOGICAL MATERIALS FROM IRAQ

WASHINGTON, JULY 8-- Iraqi radiological and nuclear materials with a potential use in weapons programs or dispersal devices have been removed from the country and airlifted to the United States, according to a July 6 press statement from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE).

In a joint Energy and Defense Department operation, 1.77 metric tons of low-enriched uranium and approximately 1000 highly radioactive sources were secured from Iraq's former nuclear research facility, packaged and then airlifted on June 23, the press statement said.


Ooops, looks like we have nuclear materials too.

*dig* *dig* *dig*


Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons

By Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, August 14, 2005; A18

BAGHDAD, Aug. 13 -- U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.

Monday's early morning raid found 11 precursor agents, "some of them quite dangerous by themselves," a military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan, said in Baghdad.

Combined, the chemicals would yield an agent capable of "lingering hazards" for those exposed to it, Boylan said. The likely targets would have been "coalition and Iraqi security forces, and Iraqi civilians," partly because the chemicals would be difficult to keep from spreading over a wide area, he said.


Uh oh! More Chemical Weapons!


Terrorists may have been close to obtaining munitions containing the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin that Polish soldiers recovered last month in Iraq, the head of Poland's military intelligence said Friday.

Polish troops had been searching for munitions as part of their regular mission in south-central Iraq when they were told by an informant in May that terrorists had made a bid to buy the chemical weapons, which date back to Saddam Hussein's war with Iran in the 1980s, Gen. Marek Dukaczewski told reporters in Warsaw.


You forgot Poland!

Look it up yourself. link



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by OverlordQ
No WMDs?

Let's see, what else do we have here:


Yes, let's. According to a Pentagon Official, the 500 chemical weapons you speak of are not dangerous any longer. So do they now qualify as chemical weapons, since they don't have the potency that they were designed with?


A Pentagon official who confirmed the findings said that all the weapons were pre-1991 vintage munitions "in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for."

The official, who asked not to be identified, said most were 155 millimeter artillery projectiles with mustard gas or sarin of varying degrees of potency.

"We're destroying them where we find them in the normal manner," the official said.


For more on this discussion, feel free to go read and study the Head-to-Head Debate between myself and Semperfortis. We're debating the validity of the Iraq War, and this invariably came up. Feel free to opine back in this thread here when you've found something else.

TheBorg



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 04:37 AM
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OverlordQ nice try either your grasping at straws like the rest of the American Right or you cant read properly.
From your sources


Polish troops had been searching for munitions as part of their regular mission in south-central Iraq when they were told by an informant in May that terrorists had made a bid to buy the chemical weapons, which date back to Saddam Hussein's war with Iran in the 1980s, Gen. Marek Dukaczewski told reporters in Warsaw.


sources

The WMDs that were found in Iraq pre date the Gulf war no evidence was found of a current WMD or nuclear program. Had the uranium that was allegedly found amounted to anything the coalition would have been shouting at the roof tops and the main justification for going into Iraq would have been validated.

I was against the invasion of Iraq but I would have preferred that WMDs had been found and Saddam was threat he was made out to be. Saddam was no saint more of an minor nuisance that needed to be dealt with.
The coalition conveniently overlooked the Saudis when they were looking to paint Saddam as the sole threat to global security in the Middle East and most of the world .



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 07:25 PM
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Ah, i see now. They're not considered WMD's anymore because that would destroy the "THEY LIED ABOUT WMDs" the left like to use. Thanks for the heads up.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by OverlordQ
Ah, i see now. They're not considered WMD's anymore because that would destroy the "THEY LIED ABOUT WMDs" the left like to use. Thanks for the heads up.


Learn to read peoples posts properly before you post a reply.
Now lets review what the last couple posts have said.
The WMDs that were found pre date the Gulf War and weren't in a usable state.

So tell me how you reached your false conclusion based on what was posted above ?
Using the same old automated arguments simply wont cut it your actually going to have to read members posts and think about the issues at hand.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 10:35 PM
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Iraq seems to have suffered a fate worse than Saddam, and there is apparently no longer reason to be optimistic about this war.


i can honestly say i bitterly hate anyone who was ever optimistic about a war.



posted on Jun, 2 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by jprophet420
i can honestly say i bitterly hate anyone who was ever optimistic about a war.


I would say to you that hate aimed at the optimistic would be wrong, especially those who were led to believe the grave danger that Iraq presented to the world just before the invasion.

Of course now that it is widely accepted that the grave danger (WMDs) consisted of bogus intelligence. But there was a time when many of us living in the more early post 9/11 times were all for removing potential threats, a climate of fear can make support for such an invasion much easier to obtain.

So perhaps there was some optimism, and later it was lost, people change, the truth usually helps to that end.

Don't hate those who were optimistic, nor the ones who still are, the truth will prevail over all one day.





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