21 Days to Open the Gates of Hell

Thank you all for the interesting and diverse replies and for the flags as well.

I am a bit perplexed though.

There was a time not so long ago when if I posted anything that called into question the basis, and reasons for the latest Iraq invasion, I was quickly met by a blood thirsty mob of primarily right wing loyal Bush administration supporters, who would all but call for my execution.

It seems that as time has gone by, and truths have been revealed by proxy lies, it has become increasingly hard to defend this war on the initial premise and reasoning behind the invasion.

Now we find that many are having a harder time making a case for continued occupation, yet leaving is not a much better option.

More an more we hear the word "quagmire"

Again I ask, can the United States of America ever find a way to escape this hell in Iraq?

To leave Iraq, the U.S.A. must first have a president and a congress who agree that we should leave. It is crucial that we remain in the region and build a great big embassy because we are straight up, turning that country around. It is also crucial to be in the region because guess who is on either side of iraq? Our friends Isreal and the european union. And guess who is on the other side? Iran, China and Russia! These three countries are deffinitley on the U.S. government's watch list.


One thing to think about is, if there is so much oil in iraq, then how come the iraqi's don't fund the american troops with all their oil profits? Makes sense to me!

chilled voodoo your living in progaganda technicolor



Mod Note: One Line and Short Posts – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by ChilledVoodoo
It is crucial that we remain in the region and build a great big embassy

The embassy opens this September. It's the mother of all embassies. A regular fortress.

blog.wired.com...

In total, the 104 acre compound will include over twenty buildings including one classified secure structure and housing for over 380 families."

I believe chilledvoodoo has it right. Of course we cannot just leave Iraq now that we are preparing for an Iran invasion. That invasion will be for the benefit of Israel an the EU, and the US needs a democratic, westernised mid east in order to counter Chinese influence in the future. Its spooky how China has gotten a foothold in Africa right under the US's nose, so of course we cannot let them get a hold on the mid east too. US and NATO will soon take their fight from Afghanistan into Iran and soon the whole mid east will be liberated.

What is your alternative plan? In detail?

I'm neither Republican or Democrat. I'm neither Right or Left on all issues. I'm waiting for leadership and see none in government. I only see talking points and the same stale rhetoric over and over again. Never with a detailed plan of how to solve this mess. I don't think Radical Islam is pulling our legs when they say they want all Jews and Westerners who don't accept their faith on demand, DEAD! I think they mean it. I think the truth is that the Rights plan is not working and the Left not only does not have a plan they are denying the truth.

25% of Muslims living in America have just admitted in a poll they approve of Suicide Bombers. Pretty scary stuff when you calculate the numbers on a world scale. World War 2 was childs play compared to what is in store for us this time. Get ready for the Dark Ages. Unless of course someone has a real plan and not just more mindless criticizm. Forget for a moment which corrupt party you belong too and look at the situation through open unbiased eyes. We are in deep cow patties here. Iraq is just a symptom of a much larger problem.

If someone does not come up with a solution I think the Right vs. Left debate is meaningless. The enemies of Freedom could care less which Party you belong too. They are thrilled their propoganda is working and probably get a good chuckle out of how stupid the American voters have become. We never let the truth interfere with a good political debate. Most of us don't even know why we approve or disapprove of the war in Iraq. We just say whatever the Party leaders tell us to say and believe what they tell us to believe.

Hell is a lot larger than Iraq. It never needed to be opened. It has always been open 24/7 hidden just beyond your peripheral vision. Your just noticing it because its in the middle of a huge advertising campaign right now:

"Blow up your neighbor, strap a bomb to your baby, torture some of your own people for fun and profit and we will give you a pile of virgins to rape!"



[edit on 5/30/2007 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by marg6043
Gazz . . . we are nothing than food and the blood needed so others can profit, benefit and make a buck on wagging war.
[edit on 30-5-2007 by marg6043]

So true, Bush cheney, rice, and all the other neo cons made small fortunes off there stocks,shares etc in companies like Lockheed martin.
How profeit is made.
I could'nt fathom what they have gained from oil, they are nothing but a bunch of capital gain pigs... the crappy thing is we are their capital gain also, they can't wait till they can watch our every move, purchase and thought we process.

Hell awaits us all its just a matter of time.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

There was a time not so long ago when if I posted anything that called into question the basis, and reasons for the latest Iraq invasion, I was quickly met by a blood thirsty mob of primarily right wing loyal Bush administration supporters, who would all but call for my execution.

It seems that as time has gone by, and truths have been revealed by proxy lies, it has become increasingly hard to defend this war on the initial premise and reasoning behind the invasion.

Now we find that many are having a harder time making a case for continued occupation, yet leaving is not a much better option.

(the links are videos so please watch to comprehend)

Well first I would have to say remember the LIES remember how it was spoon fed to you all with there Confirmation bias information

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and avoid information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs.

Also take into consideration that all the
people watching that speech on TV or in person was very acceptable to
subliminal brainwashing their simple minds were traumatized before hand
making them disassociate from certain key concepts and when people
subliminally put thoughts in your mind Id say you have a brainwashed Peon.
The primary important factor for the trauma-based mind-control is the
ability to disassociate.
did Saddam attack the USA no but the speakers say he did watch the whole
show if you don't believe me, now why would they say a blatent lie like that one? maybe because they were brainwashing you on a level you could never comprehend.

Another good video explaining Politically Bias

It's a sad generation for us all, there is just too much going down to comprehend these days regarding the evils that be its really becoming a evil place globally.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What is your alternative plan? In detail?

I'm neither Republican or Democrat. I'm neither Right or Left on all issues. I'm waiting for leadership and see none in government.

Interesting post, Blaine91555.

I meant for the OP to open the door to discussion on many levels, I have no alternative plan, I wish I did, as I see it all plans were lost long ago in this Iraq war. I'm not sure either leaving or staying will do anything to ease the violence in Iraq.

My message to anyone who reads the opening post here, is simply to highlight where we came from and where we are in this war, the reason no one has effectively answered my closing question, is because there is no answer, at least none I can find.

We invaded Iraq on bogus intelligence, and from then to now, has been the result.

In the end, it is the Iraqi people who have suffered the greatest losses, and will suffer the most for perhaps a very long time into the future. Ironically they pay a very high price for their new found freedoms and democracy.

It is easy to support our troops, for me it has been nearly impossible for me to support this war from the beginning until now, I truly believe it was a huge mistake, one that has cost in a multitude of nearly immeasurable ways, and likely will for a very long time.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what I think, or anyone for that matter. This war was "our destiny"

[edit on 30-5-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Welcome to the world Africans have lived in for two hundred years. Yes Iraq is a horrible story, but it is not nowhere near the precedent for what is happening. Far worse atrocities have occured in their neighbor continent for centuries, and continue to this day. I would not say we opened the gates of Hell at all.

I think we just batted on a hornest nest, after stomping over several army ant mounds, and jumped into a river of pihranas to escape, only to make it to a shoreline crawling with venomous snakes. But hell, I think not.

How to close the Gates of Hell?

First, I did not vote for this president.
Second, I never believed the B.S. reasons to invade Iraq.

Since there is nothing I can do personally to change any of this, I will add my thoughts on the end play of this war.

My first reaction is to leave and to hell with Iraq. This is however a very childish reaction, mainly because I dislike the president so intensely.

This then leaves two choices that I see.

The first choice is to withdraw forces slowly, set up a permanent military presence in the area large enough to defend itself, with aircraft carriers staged in the area to be called upon if needed.

This will not solve much of the chaous in the region, nor will it get us much of the oil that we could use.

This is probably how the politicians will play it out for a very long time.

The second choice is a extreme choice. It would require that the American people and politicians have some real internal fortitude.

We, that is the USA make the decision to conquer Iraq and place an American flag over it. We use heavy bombing campaigns in regions where the enemy is heavily concentrated, leaving nothing but dirt and ash for the cameras. This will mean heavy collateral damage. That is Women, Men, and Children that are basically innocent in this battle. This is a cruel way to act as a nation, but it is the only way to stabalize Iraq.

The arguement, other than the cruel aspect of the innocent deaths, is that the world will not allow this. Perhaps, but there is not a single force on the planet that is willing to take America on as of today, this could change in a few years, so if America was to take action, it must be soon.

If the war had been waged this way early on, we would not be where we are today, and we may have been able to turn the government over to the Iraq people. If we had braced ourselves to WIN and accept the horrors of war as being the price paid to play in this type of game, this could very well be a historic event rather than a current one.

The choices to me seem to either leave with most of the force, or force submission by using Brute force to cause these people to concede and stop the constant killing.

Otherwise, the Gates of Hell will open fully, not just be slightly open as they are today.

Please remember when they first started to invade Iraq what happened, the Iraqi's burned the oil fields.

word!!!!!!! it's an obvious red flag right there. man everyone should read the book confessions of an economic hitman by john perkins if you haven't already.

it kinda makes you go OOOOOH i get it now

anyway killer thread!

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

My message to anyone who reads the opening post here, is simply to highlight where we came from and where we are in this war, the reason no one has effectively answered my closing question, is because there is no answer, at least none I can find.

We are on the same page. There are no easy answers to this. I think our children's grandchildren will be still dealing with this. Throwing oil in the mixture really muddied up the water. Getting out of Iraq won't end this. It is just the start I'm afraid.

I think the reason you are seeing so few responses is that everyone is numb from the debate. We all know something has to be done; but what? Any solution is bound to be painful no matter what we believe.

Originally posted by Wolfpack 51

Otherwise, the Gates of Hell will open fully, not just be slightly open as they are today.

Thats more like it
Those are the types of things that need to be discussed instead of just arguing over who is right or wrong. What is done is done and now we need to start looking for solutions for the long term. No matter what we do people are going to die. We need to not be blinded by Iraq either. The Saudis are not talking but I'm sure they are in fear that we will pull out and leave them at the mercy of those that will take over when we are gone. What happens when the Pakistanis topple their current leader? How long before the missiles fly?

Originally posted by selfless
For those of you who thinks this invasion have nothing to do with oil...

Please remember when they first started to invade Iraq what happened, the Iraqi's burned the oil fields.

What does that tell you?

I couldn't have said it better myself. It's all about the oil. Any other assertion is laughable. Oil and perhaps Dubya's revenge for Daddy. I'm sure it was worth the hundreds of thousands of collateral deaths in this ongoing war against terrorism. Pffff.

The insurgents don't target people randomly instead they target people along Muslim ethnic lines and anyone who wants a better tomorrow for Iraq. Al-Qaeda has been made out to be the boogeyman in Iraq while I don't doubt that al-Qaeda has a presences in Iraq they are not solely responsible for the
violence .

The disaster in Iraq is due to the coalition relying on there political ideology rather then having sufficient resources to get the job done. It only took the American right three years to admit that occupation of Iraq had been botched and that your not anti American if you think that is the case.

The current situation in Iraq is a real life Kobayashi Maru .

"We know where they (Weapons of Mass Destruction) are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

lol,best quote ever. This one quote,no matter how funny it is should have sparked a warning bell then,if all the others didnt. Thats like looking for you keys and saying "i know where they are,they're around here somewhere". You DON'T know where they are. Now we are royally screwed.

Originally posted by ferretman2
And after the US left Vietnam.......3 million people were excuted.

But I guess you'd all be okay if that happen again........

Don't you think this is a bit misleading? I can only assume you're referring to the genocide by the Kmher Rouge in Cambodia, not Vietnam. I'm not saying the two incedents were entirely unrelated, but the U.S. was never directly involved in a war with Cambodia (unless you count black ops), and the genocide by that regime began well before the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam.

But your analogy seems foolish. That'd be like saying if the U.S. pulls out of Iraq, and Pakistan starts commiting genocide, it's somehow our fault. Yes, the U.S. pulling out of Iraq will have a temporary chaotic effect on the region, but the region has been in chaos for a lot longer than that, thanks to western occupation and colonial exploitation.

When you look at the bloody history of Iraq, and how three seperate ethnic groups were lumped together under the whim of the British Empire and the League of Nations post WW1, it's no wonder there's problems working together. I just hope the west learns we can't force people to live like we want them to before it's too late.

Originally posted by xpert11
Al-Qaeda has been made out to be the boogeyman in Iraq while I don't doubt that al-Qaeda has a presences in Iraq they are not solely responsible for the violence .

It's interesting to note that per the Pentagon's own assessment, of the entire insurgency, foriegn fighters only make up 7%, and of that, Al Queda accounts for 2%. And yet what is it we hear every day in the news?

Al Queda in Iraq.

What a joke. It's a civil war, not a war on terrorism.

What if we don't leave Iraq, what if Bush, wants more, and wants to become Premire Bush, Ruler of the United States.

wnd.com...

Last week, WND reported President Bush had signed May 9 a little-reported National Security and Homeland Security Directive (NSPD-51 and NSPD-20) that granted extraordinary powers to the president in the event of a declared national emergency, apparently without congressional approval or oversight.

The new directive concentrates an unprecedented amount of emergency authority in the office of the president, specifying that the president now has the authority to direct "National Essential Functions" of all federal state, local, territorial and tribal governments, as well as private sector organizations in the event of a national emergency.

The soulution is quite simple after that goes into effect, Iraq become a US territory, we will most likely absorb the rest of mexico and a showdown with Hugo Chavez waits in south America.

iraq is the war of gog and magog, you want to know whats next read Ezekiel 38-39.