The Truth About Chemtrails?

Look, I'm not here to "argue" with you or anybody. I liked this site because of the interesting ideas and pics and video to be found.

I'm not like some others here that read one line and then fight tooth and nail and insult others to debunk. I read your whole post as well as the responses and your replies. If its cloud seeding, why are there no clouds in site when these trails are laid sometimes? If it's to creat rain, why has California had a record low rainfall total this year? If its a program to "seed the clouds" then why the big secret from the taxpaying public? Why didnt the FCC person I spoke with just tell me that?, wouldnt he be one to know this.
(his name is Darren or Dennis I think and hes the meteorologist for the FAA in Long Beach CA.)

I can say you may not have read my entire post, did you see me say they are multi purpose, as in to create cover for the airmachines they fly out here in california. (and most likely everywhere)

So, according to your way of research is, if it does'nt look suspicious, then no need to investigate it? But wait, this is your thread, and your the one asking the questions, which tells me there must be some suspicion, somewhere, whether it be your or others. In that case you SHOULD be taking film and studying it, if not to better Discuss your opinions. Since there are people in this world I care deeply about, I personally take offense to whatever these trails and clouds are that we ALL are breathing in daily. Or that theyre hiding these numerous flying machines over our heads, endangering the regular aircraft in the sky. Or that out of these chemclouds are orbs that fly way low over our cities. I'm a taxpayer and I want my money back if our government is using this technology to spy on us.

you said "So, having worked through that, I have to conclude that the 'chemtrails' theory is a little bit of speculation and a lot of paranoia."

A little paranoia is a good thing, it hightens the senses and keeps ones head pulled firmly out of ones ___! (arse,cellphone,bling,spinners,ipod. u choose)

wow, you summed it all up in just a few paragraphs and at your own admission, you've done no actual physical research of your own.

Sorry my worthy opponent, but you've been DeBunked!!!!

you said "Not one pilot, mechanic, or groundworker... Even under the assumption that they are all frightened out of their minds by the government or NWO or whatever, out of all of these people at least one would have to be nuts/suicidal enough to start shouting."

If I told you Ive seen still photos of what really attacked the wtc's,(which I have) would you believe me? no, you wouldnt and youd think I was "crazy" So why would a pilot, mechanic, groundworker, go "shouting" about what they know. Kinda hard to fight the forces of evil, when the term "crazy" usually preceeds the term consipracy theory. I'm sure these airport workers and pilots would rather keep out of the funny farms, or from a desk job or from being ridiculed by the masses.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.disclose.tv...

Originally posted by ANOK
Again imo they are not 'spraying' the ocean or the ground, the spraying has nothing to do with the ground.

So why would it matter of they sprayed over ocean or land? If they are experimenting trying to make clouds, or something, I would say they would try over water as well as land, no?

But I thought they were spraying people?

Of course, one of the problems with chemtrailers is that they can't agree what is being sprayed, how, or why.

Essan how can we debunk the 'meteorological explanation'?
Chemtrails do not act like normal contrails. Normal contrails do not last for hours and form a mass cloud cover. Show me contrails doing this, no one has yet.

But that's the whole point. Contrails do behave like that. They can last for hours and do spread out into sheets of cirrus. Why else do you think we're looking into the implications of their effect on global warming?

If it's weather experimentation, I can see why the military would want to keep it secret.

Especially from all the scientists looking into ways of stopping it

Lets see, its a pretty overcast day out here in california, with rain clouds overhead, yet I dont see a single plane up theyre "seeding" the clouds? Not a single raindrop has fallen out of the sky?


Essan, Where your evdence that theyre contrails? Wheres YOUR personal research into them Not being Artificially man made clouds and trails?

Look, if you want to believe the official lie, oops i mean, version abut seeding the clouds go ahead, but dont try forcing your ignorance on others, because here WE DENY IGNORANCE!!!!!

Originally posted by Essan

But I thought they were spraying people?

Of course, one of the problems with chemtrailers is that they can't agree what is being sprayed, how, or why.

Cygnusx1966 says ---and why is this a problem for you. So to you everything has to be cut and dry, this or that? This Chemcloud issue cant be multi faceted. You do know that research results do change the more one researches Oh that right you dont research so youd not know this.

Essan how can we debunk the 'meteorological explanation'?
Chemtrails do not act like normal contrails. Normal contrails do not last for hours and form a mass cloud cover. Show me contrails doing this, no one has yet.

But that's the whole point. Contrails do behave like that. They can last for hours and do spread out into sheets of cirrus. Why else do you think we're looking into the implications of their effect on global warming?


Cygnusx1966 says ---- contrails may be able to act smewhat like that, UNDER HIGH HUMIDITY CONDITONS. Its obvious you dont even know the science or youd have thrown that little fact into your statement too, of course in order to help your part of the discussion.

Especially from all the scientists looking into ways of stopping it

Your own call tag says "Cloud Watcher" well, where's your evidence? ( and if you quote WIKIPEDIA, you should be banned from the web forever!)
"Government Disinformation Agent"- Now this is the most accurate statement you've ever made

Peace.

Originally posted by Essan
But I thought they were spraying people?

That's not what I think. Some people might, but please don't stereotype, thanx. I think you've read my posts on this before? I think it's weather modification. But as a professional de-bunker I can see why you would want to spread the more silly theories to discredit the 'believers. A typical de-bunker method...

Of course, one of the problems with chemtrailers is that they can't agree what is being sprayed, how, or why.

True. But why is that a problem? If we knew the what's and why's we wouldn't be here discussing it.

Especially from all the scientists looking into ways of stopping it

Stopping what, the weather? Not sure what you mean?

Surely you're not tying to claim there is no ongoing program by the military to control the weather? Is that why you de-bunk the chemtrails?

...Weather modification will become a part of domestic and international security and could be done unilaterally... It could have offensive and defensive applications and even be used for deterrence purposes. The ability to generate precipitation, fog, and storms on earth or to modify space weather, ... and the production of artificial weather all are a part of an integrated set of technologies which can provide substantial increase in US, or degraded capability in an adversary, to achieve global awareness, reach, and power. (US Air Force. Air University of the US Air Force, AF 2025 Final Report, www.au.af.mil...)...

...Environmental warfare is defined as the intentional modification or manipulation of the natural ecology, such as climate and weather, earth systems such as the ionosphere, magnetosphere, tectonic plate system, and/or the triggering of seismic events (earthquakes) to cause intentional physical, economic, and psycho-social, and physical destruction to an intended target geophysical or population location, as part of strategic or tactical war." (Eco News)

Source

Originally posted by cygnusx1966
Lets see, its a pretty overcast day out here in california, with rain clouds overhead, yet I dont see a single plane up theyre "seeding" the clouds? Not a single raindrop has fallen out of the sky?

Sounds more like a decaying frontal system with little if any precipitation on it. Why do you assume they're rain clouds? And why would you expect to see cloud seeding aircraft? Does the California Govt have a policy on cloud seeding? Besides, any such aircraft would be flying above the clouds, so you wouldn't see them anyway.

Essan, Where your evdence that theyre contrails? Wheres YOUR personal research into them Not being Artificially man made clouds and trails?

I haven't carried out personal research into how clouds form. Any more than I've carried out personal research into why rainbow form. I am capable of reading and understanding research carried out by professional meteorologists and atmospheric scientists though.

Besides, where's you research showing that persistent contrails (which by their nature are of course artificial clouds) cannot form? As I've said, a lot of research is being carried out into understanding why theu form, what their climatic impacts are, and whether it might be possible to reduce their frequency of occurance.

Look, if you want to believe the official lie, oops i mean, version abut seeding the clouds go ahead, but dont try forcing your ignorance on others, because here WE DENY IGNORANCE!!!!!

The official lie - as peddled by tens of thousands of meteorologists the world over? I'm simply promoting the common, scientific explanation for a phenomena which few people seem to understand. I'd say I was the one trying to deny ignorance

Originally posted by cygnusx1966

Your own call tag says "Cloud Watcher" well, where's your evidence? ( and if you quote WIKIPEDIA, you should be banned from the web forever!)
"Government Disinformation Agent"- Now this is the most accurate statement you've ever made

Peace.

Okay. Lets try the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Either they're in on the conspiracy or they've been well and truely fooled ...

Contrails are visible line clouds that form behind aircraft flying in sufficiently cold air as a result of water vapor emissions. Contrail formation can be accurately predicted for given atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions. In the exhaust, water droplets form on soot and sulfuric acid particles, then freeze to form contrail particles. Models suggest that contrails would also form without soot and sulfur emissions by activation and freezing of background particles. Increasing fuel sulfur content results in more and smaller ice particles. In the future, aircraft with more fuel-efficient engines will produce lower exhaust temperatures for the same concentration of emitted water vapor, hence will tend to cause contrails at higher ambient temperatures and over a larger altitude range.

Persistent contrails often develop into more extensive contrail cirrus in ice-supersaturated air masses. Ice particles in such persistent contrails grow by uptake of water vapor from the surrounding air. The area of the Earth covered by persistent contrails is controlled by the global extent of ice-supersaturated air masses and the number of aircraft flights in those air masses. Present contrail cover will increase further as air traffic increases. The properties of persistent contrails depend on the aerosol formed in exhaust plumes. Regions of ice-supersaturation vary with time and location and are estimated to cover an average of 10 to 20% of the Earth's surface at mid-latitudes. Ice-supersaturation in these regions is often too small to allow cirrus to form naturally, so aircraft act as a trigger to form cirrus clouds.

The mean coverage of line-shaped contrails is currently greatest over the United States of America, Europe, and the North Atlantic; it amounts to 0.5% on average over central Europe during the daytime. The mean global linear contrail coverage represents the minimum change in cirrus cloud coverage from air traffic; its present value is estimated to be 0.1% (possibly 0.02 to 0.2%).

www.grida.no...

What's the scientific grounds for believing this to be untrue?

(btw I'm sure that this document explaining the meteorological explanation is pure bunkum: www.epa.gov... as indeed is this fact sheet aimed at schoolchildren www.globe.gov... The cads, eh? )

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Essan
But I thought they were spraying people?

That's not what I think. Some people might, but please don't stereotype, thanx. I think you've read my posts on this before? I think it's weather modification. But as a professional de-bunker I can see why you would want to spread the more silly theories to discredit the 'believers. A typical de-bunker method...

Sorry. Just pointing out the inconsistencies in the many differing theories of those who believe in chemtrails.

Especially from all the scientists looking into ways of stopping it

Stopping what, the weather? Not sure what you mean?

Surely you're not tying to claim there is no ongoing program by the military to control the weather? Is that why you de-bunk the chemtrails?

Stopping the increasing occurence of persitent contarils - which are believed to be a contributory factor in climate change.

And I do know for fact that the military are interested in the subject as this unclassified MoD report shows:

www.ozone-sec.ch.cam.ac.uk...

So, are the US military deliberately creating persistent contrtails to cause global warming? And will the UK military find a way of stopping them before it's too late?

I know that the military would like to be able to control the weather to use as a weapon - as indeed they tried in Vietnam. But how does wanting to cause it to rain on your enemies relate to creating high level clouds? Which cause the sky to go hazy and may add to global warming, but nothing else?

Of course, NASA are also in on the act, again with regards the effect persistent contrails have on climate:

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

And here in the UK, the Imperial College, London, have also been looking into the climate implications:

www.imperial.ac.uk...

Who to believe?

i reallly think he is a disinfo agent. well there are a few on here, what a better place for them to be employed, really.


anyway stay focused on your research

Easy, they aren't being used to "infect" the public at all. It's a clandestine sunscreen.

... oh and the spray jets are just big ROVs.

Just a few long parallel spray lines are enough to opacify a clear sunny day.

Once again: BEST CHEMTRAIL RESEARCH DATA EVER HERE

After dropping for about 15 years, the amount of sunlight Earth reflects back into space, called albedo, has increased since 2000, a new study concludes.
That means less energy is reaching the surface. Yet global temperatures have not cooled during the period.
Increasing cloud cover seems to be the reason, but there must also be some other change in the clouds that's not yet understood.

livescience

Blinders are for horses not people.

Originally posted by cygnusx1966
Blinders are for horses not people.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this... Care to elaborate?
On another point, you criticize the research I have done while your own is suspect? Airships emitting black drones? 'Commy traitors' ruling the mass media? While I know the media is highly controlled, I can't help but question the 'commy traitors' statement. Before I waste my own time and film setting up a camera and filming the sky for days, I need to give myself a legitimate reason. My logic in my opening post hasn't been reasonably debunked yet... I find it INCREDIBLY unlikely that, out of the sheer number of people that would have to be involved, no group has talked. And as I mentioned before, I work around various large commercial planes every day. I can even look inside a disassembled aircraft engine. I would notice someone going up to a plane and doing something out of the ordinary, like replacing a canister of chemicals, for example. Why haven't I been threatened by the government yet?

And I wonder if the post above, in which the poster declares someone is a disinfo agent, was referring to myself? Go figure. People want this to be true so much, that anytime someone comes up with a legitimate argument against it, they are disinfo agents.

^ What legitimate argument? I have yet to hear anything that would make me change my mind about what I saw.

As crazy as it might seem to some people I know what I saw, and so do a lot of other people who know aircraft.

The military has plans to control the weather, tell me how else they would try to do that if not by spraying something in the air?

Project 2025

ANOK, you are misunderstanding my intention in this post. I am talking about the common belief concerning chemtrails, the one that states that they are insidious ways to silently infect/contaminate people with airborn poisons and diseases.

What people misinterpret to be 'chemtrails' could very well be weather alteration. That would honestly make more sense. I am trying to debunk the other opinion of chemtrails that is about something far removed from weather alteration.

[edit on 24-5-2007 by SeekerOfAUTMN]

#sigh#

Read this again:

www.epa.gov...

Persistent contrails, like all high level clouds, have a net warming effect. If chemtrails are deliberately being laid then it can only be in order to cause global warming - and whoever is doing it hasn't told the NOAA, WMO, IPCC, NASA, UkMetO or anyone else involved in studying them.

(incidently, the Global Dimming phenomena is caused by sulphur particles and other aerosols - which you can't see in the sky. Not by ice crystals. And the effect has been diminishing over recent years as we've cleaned our industrial processes up.)

btw anyone know when the CIA are finally going to pay me for all this disinfo work I do for them?

SeekerOfAUTMN,

I have lived in this perticular section of Baltimore (Hell) for about 6 years now. My abode lies in the path of the BWI Airport, about 25 miles away, as the Raven flies - 15 miles to the east is Martins Airport, which is a millitary base.

Okay, so I see planes flying to and fro all the time. Jets on training runs from Martins, and commercial airlines to and from BWI, with short rapidly dissapating contrails.

But it seems that ever other Monday & thursday from about 6AM to 11AM, the Jets coming out of Martins are leaving these "Chem" trails in the sky, in a cross hatch pattern. No sh#t. Never thought to take a picture of it, but I will, come Monday if they're out and about.

So they litterally fly east to west, then north and south creating a grid pattern in the sky, that last most of the damn day.

Every other day, the contrails left behind the jets, dissapate as you would expect them to.

Seems a lot of people in Baltimore are suffering from allergies more than ever, to the extent that a local news program reported on it last week, or the week before.

Something is going on. You would think I'd have the inside scoop to the evil men do, but man has surpassed anything ol' Satan could ever imagine these days.

And you know what? It's pissing me off. Because humans in government positions tend to become evil, like mad scientists, and believe that they have a right to act in our, "own best interest" without telling us what they hell they're doing.

So I have no problem believing they can completely cover this thing up.

Originally posted by Essan
#sigh#

Read this again:

www.epa.gov...

Persistent contrails, like all high level clouds, have a net warming effect. If chemtrails are deliberately being laid then it can only be in order to cause global warming - and whoever is doing it hasn't told the NOAA, WMO, IPCC, NASA, UkMetO or anyone else involved in studying them.

(incidently, the Global Dimming phenomena is caused by sulphur particles and other aerosols - which you can't see in the sky. Not by ice crystals. And the effect has been diminishing over recent years as we've cleaned our industrial processes up.)

btw anyone know when the CIA are finally going to pay me for all this disinfo work I do for them?

Theyre not going to pay you because your not that convincing.
NO, they have NOT cleaned up the industrial process, Bushes record on that stands alone.

Cmon really , cant you see that over the past 40 years these government boards and agencies are run by these scumbags, so of course theyre going to lie lie lie about the actual finding, so folks like yourself, (if your not a disinfo agent) that put their TRUST in our government will fall hook line and sinker for it. Really now.

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN

Originally posted by cygnusx1966
Blinders are for horses not people.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this... Care to elaborate?
On another point, you criticize the research I have done while your own is suspect? Airships emitting black drones? 'Commy traitors' ruling the mass media? While I know the media is highly controlled, I can't help but question the 'commy traitors' statement. Before I waste my own time and film setting up a camera and filming the sky for days, I need to give myself a legitimate reason. My logic in my opening post hasn't been reasonably debunked yet... I find it INCREDIBLY unlikely that, out of the sheer number of people that would have to be involved, no group has talked. And as I mentioned before, I work around various large commercial planes every day. I can even look inside a disassembled aircraft engine. I would notice someone going up to a plane and doing something out of the ordinary, like replacing a canister of chemicals, for example. Why haven't I been threatened by the government yet?

And I wonder if the post above, in which the poster declares someone is a disinfo agent, was referring to myself? Go figure. People want this to be true so much, that anytime someone comes up with a legitimate argument against it, they are disinfo agents.

You answer your own question here. I've offered my proof, Ive "wasted" my time by walking outside during this spraying and taken my video tape and pressed record, tripod or no tripod, posted my finding, theres your incentive. If you really belive in your or the govs thoery, then it wouldnt BE a "waste" of your time now would it? No the "disinfo agent" comment if for Zaphod- so called "Cloud Watcher" But, you are kinda defensive about it eh? Oh and it wont take "days". but if you truly believe, who cares how long research takes?

Commy Traitors, yes there are many many Gov Officials here in the Us and elsewhere in the world that are Nazi loving traitors to our democracy.

I cant believe somebody as smart as you[sic] doesnt know what I mean by , blinders are for horses and not people. Or maybe you just dont know anything about Horse racing? (not trying to attack you with this statement)

Have you saved the pictures I posted with the "ufo" spitting out the black orb? Have you zoomed in on the area where the orb is coming out of the cloud? Or did you look at the pic at the small size and say, "nope dont see it"? thats not research. do you not see the partial puck shaped ufo within the edge of the cloud just under the black orb? kinda has a "crosstop" design on it. I"ll see if I cant zoom it in FOR YOU, since you dont want to watse your "time" on any real research and post it on the esnips account asap......

as far as you looking at aircraft, dude, i doubt your in the loop and most likely the craft with the trail making machnines are coming out of Military Facilities.. so your argument on that doesnt hold any water.

Originally posted by SatansQue
SeekerOfAUTMN,


Seems a lot of people in Baltimore are suffering from allergies more than ever, to the extent that a local news program reported on it last week, or the week before.

Something is going on. You would think I'd have the inside scoop to the evil men do, but man has surpassed anything ol' Satan could ever imagine these days.

And you know what? It's pissing me off. Because humans in government positions tend to become evil, like mad scientists, and believe that they have a right to act in our, "own best interest" without telling us what they hell they're doing.

So I have no problem believing they can completely cover this thing up.

Yeah, they released a FAKE story about allergies being very active out here a couple months back, on tv news and print, "due to the lack of rainfall" HOW STUPID DO THEY THINK WE ARE???????????????????

Sorry, the comment about Dinfo agent guy is Essan, not to be confused with the other disinfo agent in traing Zaphod......... my bad

www.esnips.com...

ok folks here it is, I did what I could to bring out the ufo spitting orb from the "chemcloud". So take a look and see what you think

Have fun and PEACE.................!

Originally posted by cygnusx1966

Cmon really , cant you see that over the past 40 years these government boards and agencies are run by these scumbags, so of course theyre going to lie lie lie about the actual finding, so folks like yourself, (if your not a disinfo agent) that put their TRUST in our government will fall hook line and sinker for it. Really now.

I don't trust anyone government. But I do trust the meteorologists and other scientists who do the actual research. Some of whom I happen to know

So anyway, you're saying that all the world's scientists are deliberately lying about persistent contrails, their impact on climate and the need to do something about them?

And if the scientists are lying, is that why the govt takes so little notice of them?