Are Secret Societies in Opposition to ATS's Mission?

One of the major purposes of ATS is to discover the truth. Secret Societies frequently hide the truth from other people. Why? Has it been proven that hiding knowledge is beneficial for the truth-knowers and truth-unknowers? If it is it only for the benefit of truth-knowers, then we truly do live in an elitist society. If it is only for the benefit of truth-unknowers, then the truth-knowers are truly heroes and deserve to be honored. If it is for the benefit of both, then humans are truly a sorry lot.

I believe the truth should be revealed to all, all of the time. I believe life is kind, but unfortunately many of us have the sickness of wanting to feel better than others.

Can we not treat all people of the world as complete equals?

Originally posted by GreatTech

Can we not treat all people of the world as complete equals?

Only when they act as equals. Everyone is BORN equal but what they do from then on is up to them. Is a drug using, wife beating, child abusing ex convict my equal ? Is a religious intolerant jihadist my equal ? Is a racist nazi sleazball my equal ? I am equal to Mother Teresa or Albert Swietzer or Mother Hale ?

I believe that there are some things that are hidden for the greater safety of the public, you can't convince me that the CIA doesn't do this,or m15 or any other intelligence agency of any civilized nation, If you knew of a threat that was either under control, or beyond your control, that if revealed to the public would cause wide scale panic, riot, or a situation of the like would you reveal it? Maybe some secrets are an ethical responsibility, I can't sa for sure as I don't know those secrets.

Originally posted by GreatTech
One of the major purposes of ATS is to discover the truth. Secret Societies frequently hide the truth from other people.

This is a strange thread. Freemasons have been extremely active on this site over the last couple of years or so, answering questions and revealing huge amounts about freemasonry to those who are interested. There's absolutely nothing I won't talk about except the modes of recognition, which I have promised not to discuss.

Which areas of freemasonry do you still think are being hidden? Personally, I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Mind you, you might not be referring to freemasonry at all, as by any reasonable definition it isn't really a secret society at all, but rather a private 'members-only' organization.

Originally posted by RWPBR

Only when they act as equals. Everyone is BORN equal but what they do from then on is up to them. Is a drug using, wife beating, child abusing ex convict my equal ? Is a religious intolerant jihadist my equal ? Is a racist nazi sleazball my equal ? I am equal to Mother Teresa or Albert Swietzer or Mother Hale ?

RWPBR, point well made. But do you not believe that somewhere in all of us is the same. How else could God mete out justice equally?

If we are born equal, then at what age does this equality disappear? Does it suddenly vanish? Where in the body does it disappear Spiritually and biologically?

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by RWPBR

Only when they act as equals. Everyone is BORN equal but what they do from then on is up to them. Is a drug using, wife beating, child abusing ex convict my equal ? Is a religious intolerant jihadist my equal ? Is a racist nazi sleazball my equal ? I am equal to Mother Teresa or Albert Swietzer or Mother Hale ?

RWPBR, point well made. But do you not believe that somewhere in all of us is the same. How else could God mete out justice equally?

If we are born equal, then at what age does this equality disappear? Does it suddenly vanish? Where in the body does it disappear Spiritually and biologically?

Equality is not spiritual or biogical. It a state of apparent equity...value if you will. Value can be lost or gained. In people we call it character.

Let's not forget that it can be taken by force, physical or economic. We call this slavery.

Slavery does not remove character, it just fails to reccognize it.

Originally posted by RWPBR

Equality is not spiritual or biogical. It a state of apparent equity...value if you will. Value can be lost or gained. In people we call it character.

But is this state of equality in human's eyes or God's eyes? I believe we should all pursue perceived equality and balance any perceived inequality. In doing so, we will find true freedom in the world.

"He has shown might with His arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart. He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly. The hungry He has filled with good things; the rich He has sent away empty." Luke 1:51-53

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by RWPBR

Equality is not spiritual or biogical. It a state of apparent equity...value if you will. Value can be lost or gained. In people we call it character.

But is this state of equality in human's eyes or God's eyes? I believe we should all pursue perceived equality and balance any perceived inequality. In doing so, we will find true freedom in the world.

"He has shown might with His arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart. He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly. The hungry He has filled with good things; the rich He has sent away empty." Luke 1:51-53

Poverty does not remove character per se, many times it enhances it.

If God finds us all equal then why does he condem the wicked to eternal damnation ?

Originally posted by RWPBR

Poverty does not remove character per se, many times it enhances it.

Well said, I concur.

Originally posted by RWPBR

If God finds us all equal then why does he condem the wicked to eternal damnation ?

I do not believe in eternal damnation. I believe everybody experiences a mix of Heaven and Hell in the earthlife and afterlife. An Infinite Equilbrium and Balance are always achieved just as the earth moves in an amazing equilibrium and balance.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by GreatTech]

This is how I see it according to what I've learned:

There is no such thing as "Eternal Damnation".

However, the Hell Fire is Eternal just as the Gospels say; but it is also the Fire of the Holy Spirit.

Because when the egos go through the Second Death, they must pay all their Karma in the Hell Realms or Klipoth; and in this process the Fire of the Holy Spirit has to purify all the filth we've created in our psyches.

So our egos of hatred, lust, pride, etc. disintigrate according to how fat we've made them.

In other words, the more we fortify our defects, the longer it takes for the Fire to dissolve them.

So the Fire of the Holy Spirit is Bliss for the Buddha Nature or Soul.

But it is extreme pain for the egos.

And the Buddha Essence that is bottled up in those egos feels the pain of those egos getting dissolved in hell.


It is much less painful if we work on those egos here and now, so we don't have to feel the pain of them disintigrating in the Second Death(Hell).

Klipoth 5: Mars

...Whether you like it or not, you have to awaken the consciousness. And you will awaken it, either here positively, in the Solar Way to attain Self-realisation and wisdom, or, if you do not choose this path, then you will awaken in hell, in Klipoth.

In the Fifth Sphere the consciousness starts to awaken in evil and for evil, by knowing its own insane reality.

To be cognizant of all the different evil parts within which the essence is divided and bottled up, to recognise that is a hell - it is an activity that is taking place in a world of 480 laws, and it is a very slow process. Here it is slow, but there it is infernally slow, in which the catabolic forces of nature take place.

Catabolism - the forces that act downwards spreading apart all the parts of one thing because of pressure.

Part of you is bottled up in one aggregate of fear - and it is scared, because behind is an assassin (another of your egos), and this assassin is chasing the aggregate of fear and is going to kill him - and all of this process is happening in this circle of hell. The essence escapes. The fear is you, the murderer is you. The aggregate of fear is becoming conscious of the aggregate of murder (the assassin), and the murderer is burning up with hatred.

Your aggregate of curiosity is watching, which is you as well - "What is the fear going to do?"

Many parts of you are watching this - some parts say; "That's un-Godly!," other parts say, "Yeah, kill him!!"

Many, many parts of ourselves - this is insanity, hell, feeling all of these parts of ourselves at once.

This is similar to the circus mirrors, where we see ourselves as fat, short, tall, thin etc. but we feel this all at once - we become aware of every single psychological aggregate that we have.
The catabolic forces of Mars will force the soul to realize their own hell.

When we are here trying to see part of ourselves, and we are scared, or ashamed of part of ourselves, imagine in this circle that we are aware of it all, all our beasts of hell.

In that sphere of Klipoth the souls became ashamed of the degenerate sexual aggregates that they have in the depths of their soul. They look like beasts, look at the way they are behaving, look at what they are doing - meanwhile it is you that is doing that. And you are seeing the other parts of you looking at you while you are doing that, and there is also shame, fear etc.

Every single sin that you do, you are performing it then and there - not like here where we analyse one single part at a time, but there it is all at once, every moment, performing it in hell.

In all this confusion you see other souls doing the same, dealing with their insanity, and you have that all around you. You have everyone-elses hell as well all around you.

You awake to your own insane reality, which is really hell. And your Intimate, your Spirit, is not there. Here, physically, when we do the work in the Solar Way we have our Intimate helping us, pulling us from our defects, in order to be one with Him. But when we are a failure, down there, God is only waiting until you disintegrate; you have to descend into more and more spheres in order to pay your Karma. Only then can you see your Being, your Spirit.

But when you enter hell, you can forget about your Being, because you are divorced from your Being, and nature will do what you didn't do, only nature does it without your Inner God helping you.

To work properly here, we first become aware of ourselves, examining our moods, thoughts, in meditation. That part that has to do this is your Intimate, you have to remember your Intimate, and to study your internal hell... [snip]

[edit on 12-5-2007 by Tamahu]

I cant speak to your faiths. I can only speak to my own.
My God Judges the wicked and punishes them. he creates us all equal and then gives us free will to build on the foundation of equality or wallow in inequity.

In a way we all manage our own eternity IRA and we all start out with the same value. Some squander Gods gift and some invest it.



[edit on 12-5-2007 by RWPBR]

Um, not to be a wet blanket or anything, but how did this thread go from talking about secret societies plotting against ATS to the theophilosophical implications of our individual perceptions of God?

Did I miss something here?

Originally posted by wu kung
Um, not to be a wet blanket or anything, but how did this thread go from talking about secret societies plotting against ATS to the theophilosophical implications of our individual perceptions of God?
Did I miss something here?

You have just seen this thread hijacked, you didn't miss a thing.

Hay Greatech.

I can only speak to the question you posed from a Masonic point of view. As a Mason, the fraternity is opposed to any form of tyranny or secrecy that would impede the rights and freedoms of anyone. We have secrets in th order, only to identify each other, but other than that, we are not a secret society.

Dredz

You can't really compare Masons to other organizations such as Bilderberg or Skull and Bones.
Well, I mean, you can but it's not an apt comparison.
Masonry is about personal growth, Skull and Bones is about networking and Bilderberg is about politics and industry.

Masons have nothing to gain by opposing ATS.
I can tell you from personal experience.

However, I can not and will not speak for S&B and Bilderberg, as I am not involved in any way with them.
With all of the information (and consequently, mud) slung around here on ATS, it very well may be a great nuisance to them.

But, like I said, I'm just a working-class average Joe.

I think the major difference is on ATS you have sections that that are near impossible to prove (UFO's , Gov't cover up's, bigfoot..etc) but with the Masons we are open about it and actually there in flesh and blood.

Since we know what goes on during the meeting we are here to talk about it with others who are convinced that something is going on behind the curtain.

The majority of the problems come from a few that want to paint us as evil for some reason.

That is why you see this situation on ATS as you first brought up.

Cory

First of all, I applaud Great Tech for this thread. It opens a serious philosophical dilemna that should not be overlooked

Originally posted by GreatTech


But is this state of equality in human's eyes or God's eyes? I believe we should all pursue perceived equality and balance any perceived inequality. In doing so, we will find true freedom in the world.

"He has shown might with His arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart. He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly. The hungry He has filled with good things; the rich He has sent away empty." Luke 1:51-53

However, also recall that Christ warned his Apostles to cast not their pearls before swine. Furthermore, he told them that he spoke in parables to the people, while to them, he spoke openly.

I certainly do not claim to have all the answers, but I do have opinions on the subject. I do believe in equality...by these, I mean that all are equal under the law, and in the eyes of God equally important. This does not mean, however, that all are equal in regard to ability, responsibility, etc.

Consider the following: I am assuming that you are a reasonably responsible adult. As such, you have the right to hold a loaded gun. However, as a responsible person, you would not place that loaded gun in the hands of a five year old, because that child could not exercise the same responsibility that you are capable of. If the child is taught how to safely handle weapons, eventually he too will be able to, but he must first be prepared for that day, and prove that he is capable of having that responsibility.

In my opinion, this scenario does not justify inequality....all children may learn to handle a gun safely. It is simply a method of teaching.