YOU are not the Bible's target audience.

Originally posted by d60944How do you *know* that "real God" does not do this?

Well, did you ever see a god judging people?

Originally posted by DarkSide
Well, did you ever see a god judging people?

Well, considering the lower case of "god", then, yeah, but they were only a god in their own eyes

Originally posted by junglejake
And the point I'm driving at is that the Bible transcends time. That's one of the things that makes it so remarkable. 66 books, 44 authors, 4,000 years in the making (to date), and one story, non-contradictory

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE! what do you mean the bible doesn't contradict itself?

let's go new testament:

where was jesus born?
on which side of his family (if either) was he descended from david?
what were his last words?
how did judas die?

4 CONTRADICTORY accounts of a man's life.

, of God's plan of redemption for mankind. It was written for us, for you and for me. Just as we can learn from a history book,

yet with a history book we're taught to examine context and bias.

even though that history doesn't directly apply to us, so too can we learn of God even though the writing may have been written by someone from a different time and be of a different culture.

just because you can learn from something doesn't mean you were the target audience. i've learned from norse tales that were most definitely not written for people outside of scandanvia.

and i never said we couldn't LEARN from the bible, even as an atheist i see a few things worth learning in the bible, but i'm pointing out that it is something that should be closely examined, interpreted, and seen as primarily allegorical and metaphorical instead of literal.

While we, humanity, change with the times and with our cultures, God is unchanging.

where does the bible say that?

He is "alpha and omega", or the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

that's YOUR interpretation of that. i could say, quite easily in fact, that it just means your god always existed. nothing about how much changing took place

There is so much that can be learned, if we just put our pride in ourselves and in our culture aside

i just want to point out that i have little to no faith in my own culture, primarily because of the perpetuation of religion...

Though I am generally not a heavy believer in alot of the content of ATS, one thing this place has taught me is to not take the pronouncements of the Authorities on face value. Just because the Government or a Corporation says something is so, doesn't mean that it is so.

And so with the Bible.
It wasn't handed down to mankind from the Heavens, it was a book constructed by they Authorities of the time, containing the version of the "Facts" that those in power wished the wider population to conform to. Much of which may be quite true, some of which was probably mutated by time, some just untrue or the result of an active imagination, some a compromise for political expediency.

So, why take it at face value?

Originally posted by emjoi
Though I am generally not a heavy believer in alot of the content of ATS, one thing this place has taught me is to not take the pronouncements of the Authorities on face value. Just because the Government or a Corporation says something is so, doesn't mean that it is so.

And so with the Bible.
It wasn't handed down to mankind from the Heavens, it was a book constructed by they Authorities of the time, containing the version of the "Facts" that those in power wished the wider population to conform to. Much of which may be quite true, some of which was probably mutated by time, some just untrue or the result of an active imagination, some a compromise for political expediency.

So, why take it at face value?

Why take it at face value? Because it is the Word of God. The accuracy of the historical content..........the accuracy of the prophecies.....the Bible Code..........

..............All prove the Bible is fact.

Yes, and Bible also says when it's time to replace organized religion with higher understanding. That's time around 'last days', right now in fact. They are too busy talking about Satan and Antichrist to realize Bible also suggests Christianity as you know it today will end.

Second coming of Christ is when people win in the battle of Armageddon which is more or less your own personal battle. When you win over evil inside you and start to live with respect towards others constantly without any external guidance and reminders in form of religion. This is also much better since religion is today used for political purposes and true good is hidden under a mountain of manure.

So in fact end of religion as you know it today will make possible for greater understanding and new level of spiritual existence. It's like when pupal transforms into a butterfly. It's natural process and it happens to every mature civilization in this universe. Except some weird, but let's not talk about them now.

Interesting take detonator, but how could you claim that the end times are now as many others are, when the Bible clearly states that the end will come like a thief in the night, when no one expects it?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Why take it at face value? Because it is the Word of God. The accuracy of the historical content..........the accuracy of the prophecies.....the Bible Code..........

..............All prove the Bible is fact.

But but but... that's just this circular logic. WHY is it The Word of God?
What gives it that authority? I have yet to see a good answer for that.

It's "accuracy" and, (are you kidding?) the Bible Code, they are all just inventions by people with active imaginations. People extracting what they want to see out of it, like extracting cryptic messages from Nostradamus.

It's such a fundamental thing. The accuracy of the source of your information.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by emjoi]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Interesting take detonator, but how could you claim that the end times are now as many others are, when the Bible clearly states that the end will come like a thief in the night, when no one expects it?

Well, it's unexpected and it will happen fast especially new understanding out of this political and violent mess we are in today. Also what Antichrist will do won't be exactly what people expect from him, especially believers who expect him to behead them. That's nonsense and it comes out of fear and misunderstanding.

About end times, i think if you read Bible careful enough you will see many events today are described there. Besides this you can see how people attack church lately, produce scandals and question religion day and night on TV and internet. For you and me it's something normal today but someone else may perceive it different.

Antichrist, if you read this, i may ruin your plans by telling people what you are about to do. So, what now?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix


Why take it at face value? Because it is the Word of God. The accuracy of the historical content..........the accuracy of the prophecies.....the Bible Code..........

..............All prove the Bible is fact.

okay Sun Matrix then tell me why:

What did they give him to drink?

vinegar - Matthew 27:34

wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23


So the bible is fact but here it exactly contradicts itself so what did Jesus drink?

Vinegar is wine gone bad, so why not bad myrrh wine?

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
okay Sun Matrix then tell me why:

What did they give him to drink?

vinegar - Matthew 27:34

wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23

So the bible is fact but here it exactly contradicts itself so what did Jesus drink?

i'll add a couple: what were the last words of jesus?
how did judas die?
and on which side of his family is jesus descended from david?

www.rationalchristianity.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
(read the various theories on how the genealogies could be different and yet still accurate)
My theory about Judas' death: Judas hung himself but thrashed around in his madness and thus fell to his death.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
My theory about Judas' death: Judas hung himself but thrashed around in his madness and thus fell to his death.

and then exploded in the middle of a field?
because that's all 3 of them.

and again, last words of jesus. those should be incredibly important.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
okay Sun Matrix then tell me why:
What did they give him to drink?
vinegar - Matthew 27:34
wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23
So the bible is fact but here it exactly contradicts itself so what did Jesus drink?

Matthew 27:34
"they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink."

Mark 15:23
"Then they gave Him wine mingled with myrrh to drink, but He did not take it."

Luke 23:36-37
"The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, and saying, "if You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself."

John 19:29
"Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a hyssop, and put it to His mouth."

I see no contradictions. All four gospels stated that Jesus was offered sour wine, and the gospel of Mark explains that the wine was sour because there was myrrh in it. The gospel of Matthew also states that the wine was mixed with gall, which is something bitter added to foods.

I would just like to throw in the possibility of heavy interpolation and other fraud´s being done to the N.T..and let´s not forget..if it´s all word of God..who gave them (Nicea meeting dudes) the authority to exclude some texts?
Who dares to censor God?

I guess their suffering will be legendary..even in hell.. ;-)

Originally posted by 11an
I would just like to throw in the possibility of heavy interpolation and other fraud´s being done to the N.T..and let´s not forget..if it´s all word of God..who gave them (Nicea meeting dudes) the authority to exclude some texts?
Who dares to censor God?

I guess their suffering will be legendary..even in hell.. ;-)

I think you need to quit reading BS like the Da Vinci Code and do some real research. The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with Biblical books chosen.

Da Vinci Code propaganda was created to question official history and it did very well and now even more people don't like church which is a good thing since church doesn't like people.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
okay Sun Matrix then tell me why:
What did they give him to drink?
vinegar - Matthew 27:34
wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23
So the bible is fact but here it exactly contradicts itself so what did Jesus drink?

I see no contradictions. All four gospels stated that Jesus was offered sour wine, and the gospel of Mark explains that the wine was sour because there was myrrh in it. The gospel of Matthew also states that the wine was mixed with gall, which is something bitter added to foods.

Sorry thats not what my bible says:

Its a Schlachter Bible 2000 and it definatly says vinegar and
wine with myrrh. It may be in german but vinegar is still vinegar and not wine. I actually bought this version as to get an accurate translation from the hebrew and greek texts which is important while reading the bible.

Ive scanned the passages in question :









It certainly looks like that one of our bibles has got it wrong May i ask which Bible you are using?

[edit on 4-5-2007 by Fett Pinkus]

[edit on 4-5-2007 by Fett Pinkus]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by uberarcanist
My theory about Judas' death: Judas hung himself but thrashed around in his madness and thus fell to his death.

and then exploded in the middle of a field?
because that's all 3 of them.

and again, last words of jesus. those should be incredibly important.

Hit the ground hard enough, blood and guts are going to go everywhere.