Putin to US: Danger of Mutual Destruction!

Oh Lord, a new Cold War. I remember as a kid having nightmares about a nuclear war. Programmes like Threads and The Day After did not help. The problem today is that we have a new generation of kids who have never known what it was like to live in the Cold War with the threat of being nuked knocking on your door every day.

Bush needs to go and go now. How long is it till the next US Elections? Is it next year? I'm not too sure as i don't live in the USA !

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
Bush needs to go and go now. How long is it till the next US Elections? Is it next year? I'm not too sure as i don't live in the USA !

I don't think a changing of the guard is going to make much difference here. The democrats have shown a tough stance but soft spine when it really gets down to brass tacks. The US will continue to extend her grip no matter who it upsets including the Russians. However the media will faithfully continue to play this scenario out so that the alleged 'boogeyman' looks like the aggressor.

brill

[edit on 28-4-2007 by brill]

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
Oh Lord, a new Cold War. I remember as a kid having nightmares about a nuclear war. Programmes like Threads and The Day After did not help. The problem today is that we have a new generation of kids who have never known what it was like to live in the Cold War with the threat of being nuked knocking on your door every day.

Bush needs to go and go now. How long is it till the next US Elections? Is it next year? I'm not too sure as i don't live in the USA !

I agree, the US needs to stay out of it; Europe should stand on their own two feet against the Russian bear. Besides we all know bears are cuddly---

Russian will not stand to be third behind China in the food chain of world power, they will regroup, but doing so means they have to step on toes, and pull back those countries that abandoned ship. But all of Western Europe looks tasty as it always has---

Most of the world including many Americans hate America, now is a good time for Russia to make a move in defiance of those Capitalist pigs---strike while the iron is hot, or at least contemplate doing so.

Obviously America is not going to step out of the picture unless our resolve dissolves under a weaker administration.

A communist NWO would make lots of people happy---freedom is overrated anyway---

Originally posted by sleeper
Most of the world including many Americans hate America, now is a good time for Russia to make a move in defiance of those Capitalist pigs---strike while the iron is hot, or at least contemplate doing so.

I don't agree. I think most americans love america it's their government they dislike. Fortunately that can be changed thanks to those same people. Nothing wrong with capitalism, I sure as hell wouldn't want anything else.

brill

How a Missile Shield can be portrayed as a 'defensive' measure has got me beat. Being able to suppress a nations missiles paves the way for a retaliation free attack. If one side can enjoy protection from missiles it increases the attractiveness of attacking a weakened or defenceless enemy.

The entire reasoning behind the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, which the United States unilaterally walked away from, was to ensure that the Mutually Assured Destruction scenario would keep a lid on any nuclear holocaust. If one side could prevent the other from retaliating then there was a chance they'd actually fire their nukes.

With Caesar Bush II first walking away from the ABM treaty, then wanting to place the Missile Shield in Russia's backyard, you cant really be surprised at Russian objections. Any one who believes placing a US Missile Shield system in Poland and Czech Republic is anything other than a strangulation of Russia's sphere of influence you are insane. Both countries were Russian client states.

If Putin has to pull out of the Conventional Forces treaty to get his point across to NATO, then so be it.

Curious to understand how Russia in past or now could have already developed counter measures to Reagan's Star Wars Initiative or the present system under development, when neither were deployed?

I recall Gorby having some big time concerns with Reagan's STI plan and now Putin with the new one. Oh, and didn't think Russia was a NATO member.
Putin's wobbling around switching main foreign currency from USD to Eurodollars I think? If true, as with China, Iran and others I wonder if this has anything to do with it the heavy handedness between the three main players.

Dallas

Originally posted by subz
How a Missile Shield can be portrayed as a 'defensive' measure has got me beat.

Quite simple, given of course that you remain in context, how many interceptors will be placed in Eastern Europe? Ten. Now, they cannot successfully intercept Russian ICBM's launched over the pole or west coast direct (due to range, speed and angle). Now, Russia has hundreds of land based ICBM's as well as a significant number of mobile ICBM's and SLBM's. Even if these kinetic (no explosives) interceptors could stop Russian ICBM's heading for the US (which they cannot) and even if they had a 100% hit rate (which given the Russian claims one finds it hard to believe) they would stop roughly about 1.5% of the missiles that Russia has. If we're talking about warheads (MIRVs) then the figure is furtherer reduced to obscurity. So the idea that these missiles eliminate MAD or that they allow the US to attack Russia without having to worry about a retaliatory response is ridicules and false.

Nothing but political grandstanding from Russia, using this topic to fulfill a goal they have always wanted to achieve (rebuild their nuclear arsenal) but could not do so because of public and political pressure. However since most of the general public is largely ignorant towards this issue the Russian can play the "bad America" card. This ensures that even if someone has no clue about what they're saying that's enough for them to make up their minds about a very technical subject...

[edit on 28-4-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by subz

With Caesar Bush II first walking away from the ABM treaty, then wanting to place the Missile Shield in Russia's backyard, you cant really be surprised at Russian objections. Any one who believes placing a US Missile Shield system in Poland and Czech Republic is anything other than a strangulation of Russia's sphere of influence you are insane. Both countries were Russian client states.

If Putin has to pull out of the Conventional Forces treaty to get his point across to NATO, then so be it.

While Caesar Bush II is lead to the guillotine of public discontent and all the world gloats and cheers his demise Comrade Vladimir Putin will step into the world stage as the one and only world leader able to stand up to American Imperialism---that alone makes him a hero. He already has the hearths and souls of the left leaning European people, the majority, what more does he really need to bring glory back to the USSR---I mean Russia?

Americans are weary of war and will look for a pacifist president---everything is in place for worldwide utopia---

Ex? KGB Putin's due to leave office next year -- good riddens. Unless he pulls another fast-one and manages to wipe out all competition
Time will tell.

Dallas

Originally posted by sleeper

Russian will not stand to be third behind China in the food chain of world power, they will regroup, but doing so means they have to step on toes, and pull back those countries that abandoned ship. But all of Western Europe looks tasty as it always has---

I feel that way too. That Russia will not stand for a superpower China right next to them infringing upon everything and sending swarms of people from their overpopulated country over to Russia. And I don't think the US will stand for a superpower China either.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

I feel that way too. That Russia will not stand for a superpower China right next to them infringing upon everything and sending swarms of people from their overpopulated country over to Russia. And I don't think the US will stand for a superpower China either.

China is a super power because it feeds well off of the Western Capitalistic world tit, but remains communist to its philosophical core.

The US has not played its cards prudently with China, nor the monster USSR in sheep clothing Russia either.

The first casualty will be the fast asleep European Union.

Will America be up to keeping those emerging beasts tame---not likely.

Putins just being paranoid and wants to spark another cold war. He's trying to regain the status Russia once had by spewing retoric.

He better be carefull the big bad united states is trying to undermine russias stratigic missle deffence like we could ever stop russias nuclear arsinal with a few missles, maybe if we had 10,000.

This is more about Iran then undermining Russias security.

Imagine, we all get the honor of feeling what the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki felt. From my point of view, the cold war never ended.

Originally posted by souls
From my point of view, the cold war never ended.

I agree with that.It's like if this war was "sleeping" since 1989 but it was still around in some form and now Bush grab his guns back trying to expand the far west in Poland. YAHIiiii
It's gonna be ugly real soon i bet.
All i say is don't #ing # with the Ruskies >>> period

Putin is merely war-mongering; Russia couldn't enter a new Cold War if they tried, certainly not after we learned about their 'true power' during that period post-collapse.

a. The shield is facing the wrong direction to intercept the missiles. This goes for interceptors and radar.

b. Russian generals have all-ready admitted that, in the case of an actual war, as the shield has -no- conventional protection outside of a gate and sentries, they'd be easy targets.

c. By extension, Russia actually gains a measure of protection from this shield, as any ballistics coming in from the south-west could be intercepted before striking, say, Moscow.

d. We've long discussed placing parts of this shield within eastern Europe -- Russia is simply acting as if this was a 'sudden invasion' for political purposes.

They're simply ruffling feathers. No worries.

Originally posted by osram

Originally posted by the_sentinal

Originally posted by sardion2000
If Russia were to place missile defense systems along your border, no matter how useless they were, would you object?

[edit on 28-4-2007 by sardion2000]

Thats like comparing apples to oranges we do not have a border with russia, nor does russia have a missile defence capability to equal ours( I'm not sure if they do or not) , But just for arguements sake, we say they did have a missile defence system like ours and wanted to position it in cuba for cuba's defense. I would say "why not" if it's purely for defensive purposes. We already have MAD senerio on the card table anyway so why not throw in a few jokers.

Yes it's like comparing Apples with Oranges;
You americans notoriously seem to confound an offensive war with defensive measures.

I live in Switzerland. Don't need to be Russian to dislike US "DEFENSE SHIELD WHATEVER BLAH ROCKETS" in the East.
Can you understand that there is nothing "Defensive" about placing your Video-Game Defense Missile System in other Countries?

Would you like a Swiss Defense System in Washington or New York?
A purely Defensive War Technology I have to emphasize!

[edit on 28-4-2007 by osram]

[edit on 28-4-2007 by osram]

[edit on 28-4-2007 by osram]

Your arguement makes no sense. You are acting like the US is putting in the systems against the will of the host countries. If the countries agreed to host the systems then it is their choice and their decision has nothing to do with Switzerland.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by nybaseball44]

Originally posted by nybaseball44

Your arguement makes no sense. You are acting like the US is putting in the systems against the will of the host countries. If the countries agreed to host the systems then it is their choice and their decision has nothing to do with Switzerland.

I live in the U.S and I can see that this is ball punching done by the U.S against not just Russia but the whole world. It's simply Russia's new agenda to trash the U.S openly and quite frankly until this government (administration) is out I don't give a flying toot about anything nasty being said about us. We (the government) side deserve to be looked at in a suspicious nature in all subjects.

Also, think about it. Would you like there to be Russian missile defense structures based in northern Mexico? Even if you knew they'd be completely worthless in an offensive towards our nation? I wouldn't.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by Donoso]

Mod edit: Shortened unnecessary quote of the entire preceeding post.

[edit on 2007/4/28 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by Donoso

Also, think about it. Would you like there to be Russian missile defense structures based in northern Mexico? Even if you knew they'd be completely worthless in an offensive towards our nation? I wouldn't.

Bingo!! It isn't about the capabilities of the system par se.

Why put these facilities so far north, surely Turkey / Greece / Cyprus would be more suitable to intercept iranian missiles.

Its just absolute BS to even think that Iran would actually ever be foolish enough to launch anything in Europes direction. With so many muslims being there its doubtful that scenario would ever take place, on top of the fact that with or without a missile defense system , they would be turned to mush.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
The post by osram & CarlosG proves why Putin is useing such harsh language toward the west, he is obviously trying to widen the gap between the US and Europe. The harshness of Putins stand on this issue is making the europeans nervous putting pressure on Bush to back down.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by the_sentinal]

Your knowledge must be enormous, sentinal.
By the way it should read "sentinel".

Europeans opinions, psychology and attitude are entirely based on traumapathologic fears and memories of the cold war. (sarcasm)

Maybe you have taken into account that Putin isn't very popular around here either, but he looks like an Angel compared to the obvious fascist elite puppets like Bush. Which doesn't mean that I deny the possibility of Putin being a puppet himself.

Things are not just black or white. It's not about left or right, republicans or democrats.. Christians or Muslims.. Soviets and the West.

With your polarized opinion you prove exactly how well the Elite manages to divide the people through fearmongering and supression.
Widening the Gap between almost all of the existing parties and groups.

Widening the gap between yourself and rational thinking...