Putin to US: Danger of Mutual Destruction!

You know they would pieman, Iran or any country that would send unarmed teenage soildiers ahead of their real armed military in (Human Wave attacks) as they did in the 80's against Iraq shows that they couldn't give a rats #$@% about their muslim brethren, anything to advance militarily, I'm in agreement with nybaseball44 If the host countries want these missle systems in place then let them be.....they know the bear is coming back.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by the_sentinal
...they know the bear is coming back.

It works just like the Iraqi war, they said there was Al-queda in Iraq and there really wasn't and it ended up we attracted them to the place through our own actions. The bear is coming back because we are drawing it out and giving the hardliners an excuse and its gaining support. They see us as being aggressors. They also see China having a very fruitful economy while we strangulate our own, being mired in this mistaken war. Our dollar is weak we are not setting such a good example.

Originally posted by osram

Your knowledge must be enormous, sentinal.
By the way it should read "sentinel".




Widening the gap between yourself and rational thinking...

Only "I" know why my name is spelled that way, and I have a good reason for it being that way.......nice of you to notice.

With your polarized opinion you prove exactly how well the Elite manages to divide the people through fearmongering and supression.

My opinion may be polarized but it comes through reality of the way things are, if I were you i would stand by that missile in my backyard and say to the rest of the world " I dare you to take my land" "if you dont stand for something you'll fall for anything" is the old saying.

Widening the gap between yourself and rational thinking...

that was uncalled for, your thinking is driven by fear, your scared to have a missile in your backyard (thats understandable) I live next to Ft. Campbell military reservation and would probably take a direct hit if the day comes, and i dont like that fact. but the reality is, that those weapons that I live next to, have protected my way of life since I was born. getting rid of them would only invite evil upon my doorstep.

If the missiles are so damn useless as everyone keeps saying, why the heck is the US so hell-bent on placing them there? It wants to place the missiles there so bad, that it is willing to worsen relations with Russia to this extent. And if these missiles couldn't shoot down anything, what the hell would they do against Iran's ICBMs which are thousands of miles away, if Iran even had ICBM or was going to have them in the next decade.

And what happens when the US updates the ABM's in another decade or so. What if it decides to place a dozen more ABM there? A dozen every month? A dozen in every village? And how are we to know that what's at those closed-off bases are really ABM's and those radars only task is a defensive one?

If US places them there now, there is nothing stopping them from placing more later- it's the first step thats the hardest one. And what's to follow? Missile bases and aircraft carriers in the Black Sea to defend the American homeland from Iran? Hey it has been proposed for Crimea already, but NATO was too afraid of the local population.

Russia realizes that if they allow US/NATO to do this, then there will be more to follow. US gave every indication that this is the case, without outright announcing it- it's clear as day. Honestly- US can do whatever the hell it wants- in fact that is exactly what it has been doing. Don't mind us, don't mind Iran's, don't mind North Korea's interests... Just forget we and our interests5 are there in fact.

And then when you have nuclear subs chasing each other in the oceans, strategic bomber forces running attack drills every week, and placing missiles in every unstable regime whose support you can acquire with a few ak's and stingers- the US can truly say "Mission Accomplished".



How about this- Russia places a bunch of missile installations and radars in Cuba and Mexico, after Mexico suddenly undergoes a "colored revolution" of sorts, and claims they were there to shoot down ICBM's being launched by Canada, and plus they don't work all that well either? Hey Canada having ICBM seems as likely to me at this point as Iran having them. And the ABM location makes about as much sense. But of course the US wouldn't complain or anything... am I right? I mean look- it says "ABMs" right on those missile launchers- I swear thats what they are. And look- they don't work either. Nothing to be afraid off we are just defending ourselves from the Canadians.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Considering the climate of today, I'd rather face the Devil we know...though I do kind of agree with the Russian sentiment. Putting Missile Shield systems in those key locations is very provocative on the part of the US.

Well the thing is that the Czech government alongside some others in Europe want that defense missile shield. Knowing the history between the Czechs, other former U.S.S.R. countries and the Kremlin/Russia it is no big shock that some of the former Communist countries that were under the iron hand of the Krenlim want a missile defense shield, more so after what has been happening in Russia ever since Putin took office.

Putin making this statement surely shows that he might not have good intentions if he and the Kremlin don't want a missile defense system to protect the Czech republic and other former Communist countries.

I have watched as bush alienated Putin more with each visit. Then it appears Putin stopped being even remotely diplomatic and openly began gathering his global team and making brazen comments that ordinarily would have started WWlll. Look at the total disrespect countries like Cuban. N.Korea, Iran, Libya Syria and all the rest are showing us. Never in my life have I seen the political situation so messed up. The sad part is that there is no fixing this with republic-rats. I love our country and really do not want to watch it become some south of the border 3rd world country. How can we fix this? How can we avoid losing our country to illegal aliens and stop the very real risk of nuclear war?

Originally posted by Muaddib

Putin making this statement surely shows that he might not have good intentions if he and the Kremlin don't want a missile defense system to protect the Czech republic and other former Communist countries.

That is exactly what I've been thinking this whole time, the move to install these anti-missile systems has inadvertantly uncovered something sinister brewing in the Kremlin. possibly a plan to retake the break-away countries in some future military move, a plan sitting on the drawing board somewhere.

Originally posted by the_sentinal

Originally posted by Muaddib

Putin making this statement surely shows that he might not have good intentions if he and the Kremlin don't want a missile defense system to protect the Czech republic and other former Communist countries.

That is exactly what I've been thinking this whole time, the move to install these anti-missile systems has inadvertantly uncovered something sinister brewing in the Kremlin. possibly a plan to retake the break-away countries in some future military move, a plan sitting on the drawing board somewhere.

Reminds me of the plans for weapons of mass destruction in Irak.
Doesn't really seem that you care about facts at all.
Same goes for Westpoint23, as always..
"play the bad-america card." ?

Open your eyes for a change.

You guys deny facts and talk fictions. You embrace ignorance.

This thread is polemics.. nothing else. Boring...

Originally posted by osram
Same goes for Westpoint23, as always..
"play the bad-america card." ?

You guys deny facts and talk fictions. You embrace ignorance.

Yeah, interestingly enough you listed zero "facts" in your post and did not refute anything I had to say. Please do tell me some "facts" as I am very keen to discuss ABM capabilities and missile systems with you... it should be fun.

Originally posted by osram

Would you like a Swiss Defense System in Washington or New York?
A purely Defensive War Technology I have to emphasize!

well, i guess that depends...would it be to defend the swiss from an american missile attack? cuz if so then wouldnt a more fair comparison be to ask if we wanted it in canada or mexico? though im uncertain as to why we'd be targeting the swiss but thats neither here nor there.

but, if youre asking if we wanted a swiss defense system to protect us from iran/russia then i personally say hell yes. ive yet to see a piece of swiss military equipment i didnt think was fabulous, hell, if i were with the dod id have already submitted a proposal to scrap the M16 and all the other current programs to replace it in favor of the sig550.

i mean hell, credit where its due, the swiss make good stuff.

Honestly, I don't know what the problem is with Putin. I am pretty sure if we offered him a large cash deposit he would let us place a missile defense system in the Red Square. I'm serious they would accept our money and allow us to put whatever we want in Moscow.
One last word: You can take the man out of the KGB but you can't take the KGB out of the man.

What I find more terrifying is the fact that Russia has basically degenterated into a quasi mafia state with vast arms systems that could be used for God knows what. Even under Communist rule, things were a bit more stable. It was about the party line and not criminal enterprise. Could you imagine if La cosa Nostra or the Columbian cartels had this massive war machine (although most somewhat outdated) at their disposal? Not sure what their agenda is and I really do not blame the former satellite states of the USSR not wanting to be back behind the new Iron Curtain.

The rhetoric right now is very unsettling, and I am sure there is quite a bit of info we are not privy to. Bring back the Czars! (just kidding...kind of).

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by osram
Same goes for Westpoint23, as always..
"play the bad-america card." ?

You guys deny facts and talk fictions. You embrace ignorance.

Yeah, interestingly enough you listed zero "facts" in your post and did not refute anything I had to say. Please do tell me some "facts" as I am very keen to discuss ABM capabilities and missile systems with you... it should be fun.

No.

I'm not keen at all to discuss so-called "facts" with pseudo-patriotic ignorants like you.
Waste of time.. You guys always post incoherent out of the world statements and ask others to refute your opinions. You should realize that some people around here are not interested in playing games.

You radiate an impression of ignorant Weapon/War-Fanatic. Don't forget, even if you know something about weapons.. it doesn't mean that your geopolitical "opinion" is worth something.

If you find the stuff going on in Irak so awesome why are you still here?
Go fight the corporate war in Irak and leave some space for rational contributors on ATS.

If you keep ignoring that there might be a slight probability of your own country's propaganda or even culture being somehow wrong.. what are you doing on a board with the subtitle reading "Deny Ignorance"?

Ah yes i forgot.. your mission is to post your "valuable" opinion about anything non-american and describing it as obsolete, deniable or "evil" without ever getting over your own history/culture.

Tsarion would probably say that you should do your homework.

Originally posted by shai hulud
What I find more terrifying is the fact that Russia has basically degenterated into a quasi mafia state with vast arms systems that could be used for God knows what. Even under Communist rule, things were a bit more stable. It was about the party line and not criminal enterprise. Could you imagine if La cosa Nostra or the Columbian cartels had this massive war machine (although most somewhat outdated) at their disposal? Not sure what their agenda is and I really do not blame the former satellite states of the USSR not wanting to be back behind the new Iron Curtain.

The rhetoric right now is very unsettling, and I am sure there is quite a bit of info we are not privy to. Bring back the Czars! (just kidding...kind of).

"What I find more terrifying is the fact that the Western Culture has basically degenterated into a quasi fascist state with vast arms systems that could be used for God knows what." (Sarcasm)

Originally posted by osram
No.

I'm not keen at all to discuss so-called "facts" with pseudo-patriotic ignorants like you.

Not really surprising that you would refuse an opportunity to back up your statements when called out. After all as a champion of "facts" all you have posted is irrational and senseless drivel, and nothing in the way of meaningful information. Meanwhile you still have not challenged anything I had to say previously, I suppose in part because you at least realize that's an argument you cant win. Still though, that is no reason to throw personal insults around, especially at members you do not know. Just be a man and own up to something if you're corrected, no need to try and bait me with pointless rants about unrelated subjects.

Originally posted by osram
Waste of time.. You guys always post incoherent out of the world statements and ask others to refute your opinions. You should realize that some people around here are not interested in playing games.

Speaking of time, I have spent more than I should have replying to you even thought it likely wont lead to anywhere. All I ask in return is that you kindly point out my "incoherent out of the world statements" and respond to them. I can most certainly point out yours. Anyway, let me say that I have no intention of "playing games" but I will definitely call out members posting nonsense which they cannot, or will not back up...

[edit on 30-4-2007 by WestPoint23]

I have reviewed your first post westpoint23 and have concluded that your assessment of the missile shield is accurate and that Osram has no basis for the statements made.

That being said, I have found this concerning the great lenghts the US has gone, to ease the Russians mind concerning this sheild:

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates agreed to share with Russia the technology, radar interceptors and development aspects of the missile shield that would be used by the United States. According to reports, Gates even invited the Russians to visit the American missile defense sites in Alaska and California to see the non-explosive interceptors and the missile tracking radar systems that would be used in Eastern Europe. Russia is likely to absorb all the technical detail it can on U.S. anti-missile installations because Iran would use missiles similar to Russia’s in the event of an attack.

Besides all of this, Russia can blame themselves as much as anyone else for this development, if they had not helped Iran develope their missile systems to the degree we see today, maybe the US would not be as gung-ho about installing these shields in the first place.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Besides all of this, Russia can blame themselves as much as anyone else for this development, if they had not helped Iran develope their missile systems to the degree we see today, maybe the US would not be as gung-ho about installing these shields in the first place.

If they are for Iran, then why not place them in Turkey or India? Do you think there is a reason for Irans build up? Could it be they don't want what happened to Iraq's Osirak to happen to them? They have been threatened multiple times. If we are stupid enough to give full access to the Russians why even bother then if they are allied to Iran. Whats to stop them from giving them info. That makes no sense.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Besides all of this, Russia can blame themselves as much as anyone else for this development, if they had not helped Iran develope their missile systems to the degree we see today, maybe the US would not be as gung-ho about installing these shields in the first place.

And who can be blamed for Iran wanting the nukes in the first place? Who can be blamed for introducing nukes in the Middle East? Pakistan and Israel started this whole sharade- and guess what- both are US allies. I am not saying US gave either of them the nuclear technologies, but I think it is very likely that its alliance with them facilitated the acquisition of nuclear weapons. And what did you expect the rest of the Asian and Middle East countries to do- sit and watch as US allies get all the toys without being slapped on the hand while they can't have any?

And did you know that France was the primary supplier of nuclear expertise and technology to most of the countries that concern you so much today?

As I said before - what do these missile systems and their placement have to do with Iran? Iran has no ballistic missiles with intercontinental range- in fact it has no long-range ballistic missiles of any kind. Plus the system doesn't even work as many have stated. So why is it there? What is the main reason for such urgent placement? US can't answer this. It can come up with all kinds of BS about the missiles no being a threat to Russia, but yet it has not provided a logical explanation for what they are doing in northern Europe, far from the direct Iran-US route.

Let's Please Stay On Topic

Originally posted by osram
I'm not keen at all to discuss so-called "facts" with pseudo-patriotic ignorants like you.
Waste of time..

Name-calling and personal attacks are a waste of time.

If you wish to discuss the topic intelligently, I invite you to do so.

Stop the personal attacks.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN



If they are for Iran, then why not place them in Turkey or India? Do you think there is a reason for Irans build up? Could it be they don't want what happened to Iraq's Osirak to happen to them? They have been threatened multiple times. If we are stupid enough to give full access to the Russians why even bother then if they are allied to Iran. Whats to stop them from giving them info. That makes no sense.

I'm sure they wouldn't trust India or Turkey with these weapons since they are not nearly as stable as the proposed European countries, anyway Turkey is secretly conversing with Iran due to their joint hatred of the Kurds in Iraq, We'll see joint military action soon on the northern front.

Originally posted by maloy




As I said before - what do these missile systems and their placement have to do with Iran? Iran has no ballistic missiles with intercontinental range- in fact it has no long-range ballistic missiles of any .

I've posted articles to the contrary, Iran has indeed aquired the long range technology from the Russian and the Chinese. so you would be wrong in your assumption.

So why is it there? What is the main reason for such urgent placement? US can't answer this. It can come up with all kinds of BS about the missiles no being a threat to Russia,

The host countries have expressed a desire and willingness to have these systems in place is the best reason I can see for this to be happening, a better question would be "why is Russia so dead set against these systems" they cannot change the effectiveness of the Russian nuclear response so why is Russia playing so absolutely stupid concerning a few missile systems.