HAARP Story Changes...

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posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 04:00 PM
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My hobby is NOT to kill threads and derail theories.
I am attempting to get people to THINK, and to come up with more evidence than "I know it's different because I can see it." but nothing more. I'm sorry that asking someone to come up with more evidence and to think is such an awful thing to do. I didn't realize that making someone PROVE something is so bad to do.




posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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I believe I have already shown proof of the evidence.
Do some research into Tesla and the comparisons I have shown you.
It is evident to me and many others.
If you do not see it, then as I said you do not wish to see, and never will.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
My hobby is NOT to kill threads and derail theories.
I am attempting to get people to THINK, and to come up with more evidence than "I know it's different because I can see it." but nothing more. I'm sorry that asking someone to come up with more evidence and to think is such an awful thing to do. I didn't realize that making someone PROVE something is so bad to do.



What do you still want proven?



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 04:55 PM
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We've shown that the mission statement always was that it was a military project, there's not much else that we CAN prove about it anymore. We can speculate all we want, but until they talk about it we'll never know for sure what goes on at HAARP.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
We've shown that the mission statement always was that it was a military project, there's not much else that we CAN prove about it anymore.



Actually...


I have shown that at best HAARP could use data collected that could possibly have DoD implications for developing NEW defense technology. I also have proven that the TTO have actually taken control of the HAARP compound. The DoD were to use the data collected and apply it to seperate DoD applications. They were never supposed to take full control of the HAARP complex as a military tool itself.


So where 'we' have proven HAARP was always for military use has escaped my vision.


Originally posted by Watchful1

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I'm still looking, but in 1997 it was already being stated that HAARP was a military research project.


A serious review of HAARP is presented. On the surface, HAARP appears to be a nice military "scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere".

www.padrak.com...

Just found statements from 1990 and 1993 that show it was military.


A November 1993 "HAARP Fact Sheet" released to the public by the Office of Naval Research (ONR) stated that the Department of Defense (DoD)-backed project would "enhance present civilian capabilities" in communications and "provide significant scientific advancements."

The public fact sheet describes HAARP as "purely a scientific research facility which represents no threat to potential adversaries and would therefore have no value as a military target." However, while ionospheric experiments at the government's Puerto Rico transmitter site are managed by the civilian National Science Foundation, the Journal has learned that proposals for experiments on HAARP are to be routed through the Pentagon's Office of Naval Research.


www.geocities.com...

So what really changed?



That it was a "purely a scientific research facility which represents no threat to potential adversaries and would therefore have no value as a military target." but the 2007 DARPA TTO Overview on HAARP says

DARPA established an MOA with the Air Force and Navy for this program in November 2002. The HAARP technology is transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006.



This was your statement proving it was for scientific research and not a military project to where HAARP is the technology being used to complete military objectives, such as transmit in ELF to subs. That is not research but active exploitation of the HAARP compound which we have established is not what was said to happen back in 1993.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:28 PM
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And why do you think the military runs experiments like this? They do them to find new military technologies. Do you think the military just says "I think we should do some research that has no potential for us to use, just because we're nice guys." They're not going to spend billions of dollars on experiments that have no potential for military use. They may spend it on experiments that FAIL, but all their experiments have SOME potential military use.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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Lucky for us, no tours are allowed except on two "Open House" days. And yes, HAARP is an expensive electric playground where civilian tours put risk to equiptment but it is fantastic that 363 days a year their is a veil to enourage tin skulled individuals in believing mind control is hidden in plain view.


I am currently sifting through recent goals and activities to see what has happen since DARPA got ahold of HAARP.




Yeaaa....I'll be back with that completly truthful and not just made up evidence that says, "well folks, um, here is,*cough*umm, the...real?...data. See, we are not, umm, lying about...ummm...what?...OH YEA, HAARP, yes this data is totally real....totally. Hey look, a bird."



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
And why do you think the military runs experiments like this? They do them to find new military technologies. Do you think the military just says "I think we should do some research that has no potential for us to use, just because we're nice guys." They're not going to spend billions of dollars on experiments that have no potential for military use. They may spend it on experiments that FAIL, but all their experiments have SOME potential military use.



The DATA collected was for potential military use...



NOT THE HAARP COMPLEX ITSELF.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Scientific instruments installed at the HAARP Observatory will be useful for a variety of continuing research efforts which do not involve the use of the IRI but are strictly passive.


www.haarp.alaska.edu...



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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DARPA TTO Overview on HAARP says...

DARPA established an MOA with the Air Force and Navy for this program in November 2002. The HAARP technology is transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006.



What is an MOA you may ask...?


Military operations area, an area where United States military activity takes place
en.wikipedia.org...


Does this not COMPLETLY contradict the 1993 for science use only statement?



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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If I could turn everyone's attention to the last paragraph of the second column where it reads "a substantial amount of randomly modulated signals of very large power magnitude can be generated in a highly nonlinear mode. This can cause confusion of or interference with or even complete disruption of guidance systems employed by" (turn page)"even the most sophisticated of airplanes and missles." This is taken from The United States Trademark and Patent Office for patent #4,686,605 Assignee APTI Inc. (Los Angeles, CA)


patft.uspto.gov.../46866 05&RS=PN/4686605


When you click on this link, click the images button and scroll through the pages. I think that it's the 9th page or so. If that doesn't scream military implications then I don't know what will. There are about 12 patent #s attached to HAARP online and none of them seem in the least bit civilian in use or innocent whatsoever. I know enough that if you can alter or control the atmosphere, you can do just about anything you want and no one can stop you. Let's all stop being blind please.

[edit on 4/24/2007 by Infra_red]



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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I think I just unleashed the beast...


Anyone care to interpret these statements...




Originally posted by Watchful1

Scientific instruments installed at the HAARP Observatory will be useful for a variety of continuing research efforts which do not involve the use of the IRI but are strictly passive.


www.haarp.alaska.edu...




Can HAARP be used for military purposes?

HAARP is not designed to be an operational system for military purposes. The HAARP specifications were developed by a consortium of universities to meet the requirements for a world-class research facility and an expanded group of universities are playing a major role in the design of future research efforts.
The HAARP facility will be used for basic and applied research related to the study of the Earth's ionosphere. Because the DoD operates numerous communication and navigation systems whose signals either depend on reflection from the ionosphere or must pass through the ionosphere to satellites, there is obvious DoD interest in understanding the ionosphere's effect on these systems to improve their reliability and performance.

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

Hmm, so no military operation...


Originally posted by Watchful1
DARPA TTO Overview on HAARP says...

DARPA established an MOA with the Air Force and Navy for this program in November 2002. The HAARP technology is transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006.



What is an MOA you may ask...?


Military operations area, an area where United States military activity takes place
en.wikipedia.org...


Does this not COMPLETLY contradict the 1993 for science use only statement?







EDIT: Ambiguity in possible meaning of MOA has been discovered. Following in the ATS spirit, I refuse to be bias on what I have found.

1.) MOA: Military Operations Area
en.wikipedia.org...

2.) MOA:Memorandum of Agreement
en.wikipedia.org...


Though definition one cries conspiracy, this new info makes me lean towards defination two.

This still does not exclude the validity of my statement regarding

The HAARP technology is transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006.


[edit on 24-4-2007 by Watchful1]



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 11:14 PM
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HAARP Official Site

HAARP is an open book. They share their data openly and have even given tours when asked. It is not a top secret secure facility or anything similar. Its a bunch of Grad Students doing valuable research. They could not keep a secret if they were paid to do it. I think less than scrupulous individuals pick sites like this as a target because they are not easy to get too.

This Urban Legend about what HAARP is got so out of line that Consumer Reports actually sent a team up without resistance to see if it is dangerous in any way. They found nothing and were given complete unfettered access to their satisfaction. I read their conclusions years ago and you might be able to find it in a search.

The site link above has complete info. The military is concerned about problems with communications for obvious reasons. It makes perfect sense they would have an interest. The technologies they need would be identical to those needed by commercial communication. Nothing sinister involved in My humble constitutionally protected opinion.

Of all the conspiracy theories on this board this must be one of the weakest. When I moved up here a few years ago and found out it was a big nothing; it taught me to not accept anything in print as even remotely factual. I think this one is like the old legend of the guy with the hook for a hand. Never happened and never existed. In Montana I ran into people who saw conspiracies under every rock who think it controls the Worlds weather. Go figure



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

This Urban Legend about what HAARP is got so out of line that Consumer Reports actually sent a team up without resistance to see if it is dangerous in any way. They found nothing and were given complete unfettered access to their satisfaction. I read their conclusions years ago and you might be able to find it in a search.




How long ago did Consumer Reports go to HAARP?



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 01:18 AM
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Because if it was YEARS ago then within the past one to five years definite changes have happened...



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 09:57 AM
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HAARP is a disaster already happening

these wars are silent

and people like zaphrod try to surpress what is really going on and the real uses and purposes for 2 REASONS

1. to keep it out of a person's frame of reference as to what MAY be going on

2. because this eliminates it from someone's rationale when they think about the reasons for what may be going in. ( surpressing info eliminates it from people's including it in there options in there minds) since to them it doesn't even exist. P E R I O D



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 10:01 AM
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That's right. You figured out my secret. I'm a paid disinfo agent and I'm only here to keep you from finding out what's going on with HAARP.
Geezus, I didn't realize that demanding the best proof you can give, and making people THINK about things like this was such a horrible thing to expect from people. I forgot that if you expect more than "I know what it is because I can see the difference" you're a paid disinfo agent.



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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I live here. I've spoken with people who have worked there. There is nothing secret going on. They put up a bunch of weird antenna's that look good in pictures and a conspiracy is born. Fly up here and drive to the facility and ask for a tour.

That CR study was about 6 years ago I think.

The HAARP theories fail to hold water on their face. Even the Government is not dumb enough to do what they are being accused of in a civilian facility full of Grad Students who would out them in a minute. This boat don't float. Could be a good ruse to sell books I guess.



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Watchful1


The HAARP technology is transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006.





Blaine...explain this



If the DoD uses the HAARP technology to just collect data relevant to defense then why is it that the "HAARP technology...transitioning to the Air Force and Navy in FY 2006."?



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Sorr, but why would it matter what they say to people they show around. Have you actually read what the thing is for?

"Also as alluded to earlier, molecular modifications
of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be
achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric
region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence.
For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc. concentrations in the atmosphere could be
artificially increased. Similarly, environmental enhancement could be achieved by
causing the breakup of various chemical entities such as carbon dioxide, carbon
monoxide, nitrous oxides, and the like. Transportation of entities can also be
realized when advantage is taken of the drag effects caused by regions of the
atmosphere moving up along diverging field lines. Small micron sized particles can
be then transported, and, under certain circumstances and with the availability of
sufficient energy, larger particles or objects could be similarly affected."

This is also from the patent linked above by Infra-Red. Also see the section where it talks about Alaska being the ideal spot, and why. If they weren't out for the really high-power capabilities, such as destroying missiles, controlling the weather, etc., and to affect a large portion of the earth, both N and S of the equator, then why else site in alaska, exactly as the patent describes.





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