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reply posted on 24-4-2007 @ 11:14 AM by CasualOne
Originally posted by Columbus

"The Supreme Law of Our Nation" are just words.


Stubborn people refuse to see that new nations are inevitable. The United States is not going to colonize the stars no matter how Nazionalistic you might be today.


In philosophy, rights are a fuzzy concept. Calling them "inalienable" doesn't make them any less fuzzy. The claim "higher power" is why it will eventually disappear into history, because there is none.


Making it a religion on par with Islamic Fundamentalism. You don't so much believe in the Constitution, what it says, Freedom, Liberty, Justice, as in the idea it was inspired by a higher power.

And this is why the Constitution of the United States will pass into History.


#1 You are in need of some remedial American History classes.

The US Constitution is not inspired by a "higher" power, it was created by men: (from the preamble) "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.". What you and others forget or do not understand that in the United States of America it is We the People who loan the power to our government. It does not matter who is elected they have power by the grace of the people and we the people are responible for the government not the government for the people.

Now the Declaration of Independence in part reads:

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.".

#2 You betray your true agenda with "Nazionalistic".

To imply Nationalism is "Nazionalistic" you are delusional at best. Nazi stands for "National Socialist German Workers' Party" The creation of the EU and the proposed creation of a NAU is closer to fullfilling not only the Nazi parties ideal, but the Global Socialist Elite's world agenda.

First the EU, then the NAU and then the final hegemony will be the Asian Union. " Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,".

Casual One



[edit on 24-4-2007 by CasualOne]


reply posted on 24-4-2007 @ 06:26 PM by CasualOne
Originally posted by InSpiteOf


Its seems you suffer from a bit of delusion as well. The NAZI party were anything but socialists. They use the term socialist in their name to add a sense of revolution to their political order, but there really was no revolution for the people. instead it was a revolution of industry leaders, bankers, and the upper class in general. The nazi's did not enguage in any social programs or reforms that benefited the people of germany, and the same goes with the italian fascists.

Fascism and Socialism are NOT totalitarian twins, despite the conservative propaganda.

The EU and the NAU are more likely to fulfill the roles of fascism not socialism (im basing that on who is actually pushing these ideals forward.)

Finally, why would a gobal social system be bad for the world?


#1 Socialism- An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion." (Marx for Beginners (New York: Pantheon Books, 1976), 152.)

And from Websters- Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.

Critical thinking leads me to say, yes the NAZI party was/is socialist.

I agree they were also fascists, just for fun:
Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism By Dr. Lawrence Britt

#2 I did not nor have I ever confused socialism and fascism as you contend.

#3 The EU is not fascistic now nor will the NAU start out that way but the EU is socialistic and the US is moving that direction. The NAU will bring more gov't control and regulation into everyday life. You make the call.

#4 Who would you rather have managing your life? Should gov't regulate the size and price of bananas? Should bureaucrats decide how many patients a doctor sees an hour and how much time to spend with each one? (Not to mention should said bureaucrat decide the care provided to your sick child?) How much "social" control do you need? Redistribution of wealth? Why should a Nation, or individual, that has given blood, sweat, and tears to build a wealthy, prosperous society have the fruits of their labors stolen by "taxation"?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Read it carfully and think critically. You can learn so much from this one sentence.

One thing it teaches is: When you give control of your Life to someone or something else you will also lose your Liberty and the ability to pursue your Happiness.

"In the abundance or water only the fool is thirsty."- Bob Marley

Keep it Casual


reply posted on 24-4-2007 @ 08:45 PM by InSpiteOf


#1 Socialism- An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion." (Marx for Beginners (New York: Pantheon Books, 1976), 152.)

Critical thinking leads me to say, yes the NAZI party was/is socialist.

If critical thinking has lead you to believe the NAZI party was socialist based on those definitions you listed then im going to guess that you haven't read very much (if anything) on the NAZI's class policies/politics. Big Business THRIVED under Mussolini and Hitler, because those two pushed for massive privtization. Labour and trade unions were crushed in both countries. Farm co-operatives were attacked and crushed by blackshirts, wages were slashed by up to 40%.

But if you believe the NAZI's were really socialists in part or whole, which policies would you say reflect this belief?

If you want a good read on this subject, i suggest "Black Shirts and Reds" by Michael Parenti.


#2 I did not nor have I ever confused socialism and fascism as you contend.

Fair enough, but to be frank, the comment wasnt just aimed at you. A lot of people seem to believe that fascism and socialism go hand and hand. I wanted to state otherwise.

#3 The EU is not fascistic now nor will the NAU start out that way but the EU is socialistic and the US is moving that direction. The NAU will bring more gov't control and regulation into everyday life. You make the call.


You think the US is moving more socialistic? Really? The way i see things, the US is becomming more like an unregulated capitalist state, kind of like what it was in the 1890's, and we all know what a disaster that was.


#4 Who would you rather have managing your life? Should gov't regulate the size and price of bananas? Should bureaucrats decide how many patients a doctor sees an hour and how much time to spend with each one? (Not to mention should said bureaucrat decide the care provided to your sick child?) How much "social" control do you need? Redistribution of wealth? Why should a Nation, or individual, that has given blood, sweat, and tears to build a wealthy, prosperous society have the fruits of their labors stolen by "taxation"?


I dont agree with all aspects of socialism, i lean towards a social democracy. Hell i live in a sort of socialist country and frankly, every dollar tahts taken from my cheque that goes into social programs is one dollar im happy is going to some good use. Im happy i have healthcare (though thanks to privatization, its getting worse.) Im happy i have a social safetty net to help the poor and unfortunate. In my mind, we're all stuck on this planet together and its about time we started acting like it. BUt thats just me.


One thing it teaches is: When you give control of your Life to someone or something else you will also lose your Liberty and the ability to pursue your Happiness.


And what if the control you give up actually goes to benefit human kind? Should you be allowed to pursue your vision of happiness if it infringes on the lives of everyone else on this planet?



[edit on 24-4-2007 by InSpiteOf]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by InSpiteOf]



reply posted on 24-4-2007 @ 11:51 PM by Columbus
Originally posted by billybob
you'll make a great cog in the wheels of the worldwide police state.

I can't see how you get this from my words. I have more real trouble with government power than tinfoils pretend to have. I welcome something more substantial and international than the US Constitution.

Originally posted by CasualOne
What you and others forget or do not understand that in the United States of America it is We the People who loan the power to our government. It does not matter who is elected they have power by the grace of the people and we the people are responible for the government not the government for the people.

Exactly why such tinfoil concerns are unwarranted. Changing to an international currency is something that will not just happen, but when it does it will only be through consent of the people.

"...and of Nature's God..." "...by their Creator..."

Fatal Expressions.


...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, ... Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; ... mankind are more disposed to suffer, ... than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

Such as when Iraq's government was abolished and it became necessary to write a new constitution for that country. They did not simply say, give us the US Constitution (or the Magna Carta for that matter), it's already perfect!

To imply Nationalism is "Nazionalistic" you are delusional at best. Nazi stands for "National Socialist German Workers' Party" The creation of the EU and the proposed creation of a NAU is closer to fullfilling not only the Nazi parties ideal, but the Global Socialist Elite's world agenda.

Nazis were delusional with fantasies of global superiority just like American Nationalists are today. Welcome to Planet America everyone! No, I hold that this world should be governed by the voice of the people of the whole world, not one nation, and not the United States, no matter how great the Constitution is. It's still flawed and limited.
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